Where did it all begin?

How many of yours have been killed by Ahmadis? Nill. How many Ahmadis have been killed by you guys? Numerous. So who hates who?

Ahmadis don’t react even in extreme provocation.

You are just angry that it portrays your society as barbarians and this in 21st century.

Re: Is Pakistan merely a space?

^^ ..

That is what I am saying. They cry much more than what is actually happening. Out of a 1,000 murdered in Pakistan, if one happens to be an ahmedi, the heavens fall.

Guess reason does not work for you.

Ahmadis are not that many and their persecution is too high compared to their numbers...plus the laws against them are clearly prejudiced which isn't the case regarding the rest so this is additional trouble for Ahmadis....this is in addition to the usual murders/crimes that happen in society which also effect Ahmadis anyways..plus when crimes are committed against Ahmadis, police is disinterested as the other parties make it a matter of religious pride and police can’t fight with molvis..plus media also incites to Ahmadi murders which it doesn't for anyone else

..all elements of society make particular effort and take particular pride in persecuting Ahmadis...in other words Ahmadis have it totally tilt against them....Ahmadis simply don't have a chance.

Re: Is Pakistan merely a space?

Look declare yourself a seperate religion and get it over with. Your existence is an insult to the last sermon of the Holy Prophet (SAW).

Re: Is Pakistan merely a space?

noops..those who are killing innocent in his saw name are insulting him saw...Ahmadis are peacefully tolerating persecution (like he saw and his saw sahaba did). this has earned Ahmadi Islam (true Islam) a good name all over and a very bad name for those who persecute. i don't need to name names, you know who you are.

Re: Is Pakistan merely a space?

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Re: Minority Prosecution-Is Pakistan merely a space [Split]

[note]Thread cleaned up, split, and reopened. Thanks for your patience.[/note]

Re: Minority Prosecution-Is Pakistan merely a space [Split]

Yes Pakistan has problem when it comes to human rights, but so has India, the number of Muslims Indians, Low Caste Hindus and chritians killed by Hindus far surpassed than those killed in Pakistan but they do not act like Indian haters.

Re: Minority Prosecution-Is Pakistan merely a space [Split]

^^ so that makes it ok for Pakistan?

Re: Minority Prosecution-Is Pakistan merely a space [Split]

^Ofcourse not, we should work on the problem rather than trying to act like Pakistan haters and traitors.

Problem? Are you kidding me? Pakistan has one of the most barbaric and stupidest persecution laws officially on the statue books that 21st century has seen. Can you send Muslims to prison for three years for merely declaring their beliefs whatever they want it to be in India or any country of the world? Can you even imagine how pathetic it is in this day and age? Stone age squarely. Do you know any other country in the world that does that?

Even then Muslims (non-Ahmadis) in India and rest of the world make plenty complaints when they feel they have been wronged. Yes they act like India haters, UK haters, US hates, Denmark haters and so on and so on. Muslims (non-Ahmadis) actually also blow thing up in various countries too killing innocent people. I am amazed you haven’t noticed.

Everyone has a right to complain when they have been wronged. This is a standard followed in all countries and by all communities. It doesn’t become treason just because you say so. How much have you worked to solve this problem? Nada. So who are you to complain? You are not the one getting killed.

yes we only need to look at kashmir to know how superbly humane and democratic indian policies are. pakistan has problems sure but if an indian git is going to ignore all of his own to deliver a sermon ,he might as well change his directions.

Re: Minority Prosecution-Is Pakistan merely a space [Split]

While the persecution of minorities is despicable and unacceptable. There are methods by which they can be solved. Firstly repeal the constitutional amendment regarding Ahmadies. And have the religion officially declared to be seperate from Islam. Done deal.

Ahmadies aren't muslims. Its a simple logical fact. No amount of propoganda will change that. So just get over your own ****ing stupidity and live a happy live as Ahmadies. A seperate religion.

And Ehsan the comments by Slickstar were right on the mark. Why were they editted out?

Re: Minority Prosecution-Is Pakistan merely a space [Split]

Pakistan is among the most dangerous countries in the world for someone to be a Non-muslim

Pakistan’s religious minorities live in fear - Pakistan - msnbc.com

Pakistan’s religious minorities live in fear
Attacks are further evidence Taliban is growing in power, influence

KARACHI, Pakistan - Fauzia Abrar had finally gotten her crying baby to sleep when screaming men pounded on the steel doors of her home in the mostly Christian slum in the port city of Karachi.

Suddenly she heard shots, and the screaming grew louder: “Long live Taliban! Death to infidels!”

The men forced their way into her house, hurled loose tiles and a glass at her and fired a shot. She fainted.

As the Taliban gains a stronger foothold in Pakistan, increasingly violent assaults against religious minorities are further evidence of its growing power and influence. While the Taliban does not carry out all of the attacks, extremist elements inspired by the group will sometimes act in its name.

These attacks add to the instability of an already highly unstable country and also show how Pakistan, supposed to be a U.S. ally in the fight against Islamic extremism, is now itself increasingly threatened by extremists.

Group: Major increase in threats
In dozens of interviews from Karachi to Peshawar, Christians, Sikhs and Hindus told of attacks and threats and expressed an overwhelming sense of fear. Minority Rights Group International, a watchdog organization, ranked Pakistan last year as the world’s top country for major increases in threats to minorities from 2007 — along with Sri Lanka, which is embroiled in civil war. The group lists Pakistan as seventh on the list of 10 most dangerous countries for minorities, after Somalia, Sudan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Myanmar and Congo.

“In Pakistan today there is a lot of feeling of fear by all the minorities,” said the Rev. Richard D’Souza of St. Jude Church in Karachi. “We feel we have no protection.”

The trouble in D’Souza’s parish started with bold blue graffiti on the church walls praising the Taliban and Islamic law, and condemning Christians as infidels. Young Christians in the neighborhood protested.

Within days, about 25 burly men with shaggy beards rampaged through the neighborhood, beating Christians, pelting women with stones and setting fire to the doors of houses and to meager possessions. An 11-year-old boy was killed, and several people were wounded.

“The police never helped. None of us had weapons. The police just stood there,” said 26-year-old Imran Masih, who spent 10 days in the hospital after a bullet pierced his neck.

Christians flee
Dozens of Christian families fled. One man who stayed, Sohail Masih, showed what is left of the family’s two Bibles and a Sunday school book — a seared and crumbled mass of paper. He had wrapped it in plastic bags and hidden it, in case evidence was ever needed.

D’Souza said the parish is thinking of forming its own armed youth brigades to patrol Christian areas. When he asked the government for armored personnel carriers, he said, two bored-looking policemen showed up for the Easter Sunday service and were gone the next morning.

Shahbaz Bhatti, Pakistan’s minister for minorities affairs, said the government is trying to stop the Taliban through military operations.

‘They have a genuine concern’
“I don’t say minorities are not worried. They have a genuine concern. They have been attacked,” said Bhatti, a Christian. “The Taliban say non-Muslims are infidels, and the people who are misguided zealots can interpret this in any way. Minorities can be easy and soft targets of these extremists, but these Taliban are committing such violent acts that everyone feels fear in their presence — the minority and the majority in Pakistan.”

Religious minorities represent about 5 percent of Pakistan’s 160 million people, according to the CIA World Factbook. But Michael Javed, director of a peace council and a minister in southern Sindh, charged that census takers intentionally keep minority figures low to deny them greater representation. Christians alone represent 5 to 6 percent of the population, he said.

Javed said he has been told by militants to take the cross off his schools in Karachi, but he has refused. Frightened Christians are trying to arm themselves, he said, pulling out a bulging file with more than 60 applications to buy weapons.

“It has never happened in the past like this. Today we feel we have no future. They want us to hide, but we won’t,” he said.

Even Shiite Muslims have come under attack as the Sunni Taliban tears through the tribal areas. In the past two years, the Taliban has embraced a violently anti-Shiite group, Lashkar-e-Janghvi, unleashing a fresh wave of bitter bloodletting. More than 500 Shiite Muslims in the Kurram tribal agency have been killed in daily attacks.

Editorials in local newspapers have warned of the threat to minorities and predicted that the brutality will eventually reach the larger population. In an April letter to the prime minister and president, Lahore Archbishop Lawrence Saldanha said allowing Islamic law in the violent Swat Valley would give license to “trigger-happy Taliban (and further) erode constitutional protections for minorities and women.”

Ultimatum to Sikh families
The Taliban issued an ultimatum in March to the elders of more than 25 Sikh families in the Orakzai tribal agency near the Afghan border: Convert to Islam, join the jihad or pay 5 billion rupees — roughly $62 million — for protection.

“We couldn’t pay that amount. We were farmers,” said a young Sikh who asked to be identified only as Singh, because he was too terrified to give his full name or location. He fidgeted nervously, and his voice became little more than a whisper as he recalled the Taliban’s threat to take a Sikh leader to South Waziristan to decide his fate if the extortion money wasn’t paid.

The villagers persuaded the Taliban to reduce the amount to 12 million rupees or $150,000 — still a princely sum for the Sikh community. But Singh said they raised enough money to get their elder released, with a promise to pay the rest by March 29.

On March 28, he said, the Sikhs paid the full amount, and the Taliban promised to protect them anywhere in Pakistan. But by 10 p.m. that day, the Taliban had told Sikh elders they were preparing to attack.

By 2 a.m., the elders had packed everyone into cars and trucks, and more than 150 Sikhs fled to Peshawar, the provincial capital of the northwest.

“What are we to do? We have nothing,” Singh said. “We have asked the government of Pakistan, either relocate us to somewhere safe or send us to India.”

The lives of Hindus are also in danger, according to the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan. Last month, extremists attacked a Hindu Holi religious festival not far from the border with India, setting fire to a Hindu temple and destroying several shops. And last year, a young Hindu worker was beaten to death at a factory in Karachi by fellow workers who accused him of insulting Islam.

Although no figures are available, anecdotal evidence and human rights groups say attacks against Hindus have risen in the last two years, with temples and worshippers targeted especially in Sindh province, where Karachi is located.

“We are under more and more of a threat because of these extremists, but we ourselves feel if we take the wrong step, even to tell of the wrong things, then it will be death for us,” said Amarnath Motumal, a lawyer and head of the Karachi Hindu Panchayat, representing Hindus. “We worry about the future of our families and our children here in Pakistan — all of us (minorities) do today because of these extremists.”

Re: Minority Prosecution-Is Pakistan merely a space [Split]

Right and the US is any better?

:rotfl:

Because Slickstar requested them to be removed. :)

yeah back on that comment.

Now, Im not really a religious person but I do have the capacity to understand how one can be classified as a Muslim.
correct me if im bloody wrong. Please correct me.

TO BE A MUSLIM, THE BASIC FUNDAMENTAL STATE OF MIND (of course there are others) ANY MUSLIM MUST ADHERE TO IS THE IDEA THAT PROPHET MUHAMMAD (PBUH) WAS THE FINAL PROPHET THAT ALLAH SENT DOWN.

Now, ive just done a little research on wiki (yes I know) and found this quote:

If anyone believes in this quote, he/she is contradicting the fundamental principles of Islam. No matter how much you go on about whatever the hell you go on about, YOU CANT BE A MUSLIM IF YOU BELIEVE IN THAT QUOTE. END OF STORY. YOU HAVE NOTHING TO STAND ON. **NOTHING.
**
Mirza HIMSELF said that he is a prophet. He then further goes on to claim that he is to Muhammad as Jesus was to Moses. We can now say that Ahmadies are not Muslims.

Of course, I am in no way advocating the we should discriminate against Ahmadies. Hell, they can pray to cow dung for all I care. But have some self respect and say out loud what we all know. Its like a christian calling himself a jew because he believes in Moses. But of course, he is not a Jew because a Jew doesn’t believe in Christ.