Mirch, just as you believe you are raising your son the right way by not "raising them in a cocoon", the other parents are probably thinking that the are doing the right thing by raising them in a "coccon". You have no right to call them they "More Muslim then thou", even if their sons and daughters are doing whatever. Maybe they are really sincere in their practice and interepretation of Islam.
Respect is a two way street. Lets not be condescending to the other group. Afterall their restrctions makes sense: they don't let their sons, do the certain things- so won't they be sending mixed messages if they let their sons hang out with your son WHILE doing the certain thing they forbid? For example, if you forbid your son to drink alcohol, would you feel it's okay if your son hung with kids that are allowed to WHILE THEY ARE DRINKING? probably not. Yet your probably would careless if they hung out with them in school, or any other place while they were NOT drinking.
They have the right to raise their child any way they desire- neither group being right or wrong. May be they are truly sincere in their beliefs, and really do not mean any offense to YOU or your child personally.
That being said, just out of curiousity- do you have a daughter? and do you allow her to bring boys over to your place just as friends?
GJ, I don't think it's people's choices in raising their children that leads Mirch to refer to them how he does. Rather, it's their attitude towards him and his way of relating to his kids, which is condescending and offensive and involves the sin of backbiting. I think many of us are try to practice Islam sincerely and with a clear moral conscience, though inevitably we don't agree on everything. But as we've discussed in another post today, it's frustrating for those of us who are generally less strict or conservative to feel that some other Muslims will only show courtesy and respect for us when we do things exactly 'their way'.
I have open channels of communications with my kids so they confide in me and to the best of knowledge they are not betraying my trust so far.
What else am I supposed to do ? Should I do it differently and impose restrictions on my kids and raise them in a cocoon ? How would then I immunize them the bad influence of drugs , sex and drinking ?
Mirch, you're not accusing the other parents of being less sincere. This was neither mentioned nor implied in your post. Parents have differnt styles of parenting. And most parents do what they feel is right........and the rest of the responsibility lies with their kids. Your comment of "More Muslim than thou" reflects you how feel those parents view you. The central focus of your post is not to criticize the other parents' parenting........but to discuss their reaction to yours and the irony of it :)
If other parents don't feel comfortable having their kids in your home when your son has girls over............that's their personal opinion. If those parents choose to misunderstand you, so be it. You alone know your intentions and the true situation in your home. Your son is bringing the girls to the home where YOU can monitor him. Just because some kids don't bring classmates of the opposite gender to their homes doesn't mean that everything is going fine outside of the home. Just because an undesired behavior isn't taking place in front of a parent.......doesn't necessarily mean it can't take place behind their backs.
If those girls didn't come to your home to work on a school project............then those same girls would have worked with your son in school........perhaps in the classroom monitored by a teacher............or possibly even in the media center........where the librarian is not paying much attention to them.
You're trying your best to monitor your child. As a parent, you do what you feel is best for your kid because you're the one raising him. Not the other parents. And ultimately.......it's not the other parents to whom you'll be accountable to.
Just contintue your open communication and explain your views with reasons in the light of Islam to your child...to the best of your ability.
GJ, I don't think it's people's choices in raising their children that leads Mirch to refer to them how he does. Rather, it's their attitude towards him and his way of relating to his kids, which is condescending and offensive and involves the sin of backbiting. I think many of us are try to practice Islam sincerely and with a clear moral conscience, though inevitably we don't agree on everything. But as we've discussed in another post today, it's frustrating for those of us who are generally less strict or conservative to feel that some other Muslims will only show courtesy and respect for us when we do things exactly 'their way'.
If that is the reasoning, then that's fine. But I think something needs to be clarified:
What exactly are they doing that makes you think they have a condescending attitude towards you and your child?
Is it the mere fact, that they have prohibited their child from visiting your child at your house?
Have they said something to your personally that your were offended by?
Did they something behing your back that you overheard?
Do they walk a certain way, that makes you feel they are snooty?
Lets be more specific here. Lets try not to just label people as "condescending" just because they raise their children more strictly then you do. It is equally frustrating to strict parents when they are labeled as "condescending" or "more holier than thou" attitude just bcause they don't allow their children to do what other parents let their children do, when all they are trying to do is prevent mixed messages.
When my son stated high school , I told him "son , I know you go to a co-ed school , you interact with girls in your class you will be doing joint class projects , so I do not have any problem with you having your classmate girls as your friends , but I would surely not allow a girlfriend as it is termed in Western terminology. "
So he does invite those girls to our home for joint class projects , to watch a movie at home etc. Now some uncles ( as Azher Usman says for lack of better term) tell their Muslim kids to stay away from my son's company as because of their interpretation he is a bad influence.
Mind you he does not do drugs , he is not into drinking , sex , he gets better grades then their goofy kids etc. But sons and daughters of some of those more-Muslim-than-thou people are involved in those activities behind their parents backs.
I have open channels of communications with my kids so they confide in me and to the best of knowledge they are not betraying my trust so far.
What else am I supposed to do ? Should I do it differently and impose restrictions on my kids and raise them in a cocoon ? How would then I immunize them the bad influence of drugs , sex and drinking ?
You should feel good that your son invites his female friends in your presence. You could be stopping him from doing everything under the sun but he is smart enough to do anything behind your back.
As far as those uncles are concerned, that's all they can pretty much do. Don't worry about them.
I think we need to be open and balanced in this day and age and set the right example of healthy communication at home so when the time comes, our children feel comfortable talking to us and also feel comfortable hearing what we have to say.
@ GJ, As Mirch noted in his original post, some of the uncles in the community have labeled his son as a bad influence and forbid their children from associating with him, for no other apparent reason than that he has some social interaction with female classmates.
Mirch Bhai is a well-respected member of our guppan community who has shown no penchant for the bollywood drama type of thread, :) so I have no problem taking him at his word, and nowhere in his post did I sense that he's attacking others or their children.
@ GJ, As Mirch noted in his original post, some of the uncles in the community have labeled his son as a bad influence and forbid their children from associating with him, for no other apparent reason than that he has some social interaction with female classmates.
Bhai Mirch is a well-respected member of our guppan community who has shown no penchant for the bollywood drama type of thread, :) so I have no problem taking him at his word, and nowhere in his post did I sense that he's attacking others or their children.
Indeed, but I am just merely trying to evaluate what makes a person snooty, with a "holier then thou" attitude"... i mean if it involves backbitng, and completely shunning someone then I do believe that Mirch has very valid points...
Agree with NYCGori. Those girls that hang out with his son at the home are monitored by Papa Mirch.
Also........how does Mirch know that the other parents KNOW that girls came over to his home? Did the kids of the other parents tell their parents, "Mommy/Daddy....Mirch Junior had girls over at his house." ???????????? Is that how the other parents found out?
Because let's assume that the "other parents" came to visit Mirch and saw that his son was hanging out with some girls at home. In a situation like this....the "other parents" shouldn't make such a big deal because they should realize that MIRCH, THE FATHER......is at home to supervise his own son and his activities.
HOWEVER.........if the "other parents" NEVER saw the girls at Mirch's home.......then how do they know about this? The only way the "other parents" could find out is IF their OWN kids are telling them about what goes on at Mirch's home. OR......it's possible that Mirch's son told those kids that "My dad is cool with letting me bring girls to the house."........and this comment became misinterpreted/blown out of proportion by those kids and their parents.
ALSO......how does Mirch know that those "other parents" think that his son is a bad influence. It is because maybe one day Mirch's son asked his friends to come over to his house...........and those friends told him that "Nah, dude, I can't come over to your house. My parents say that I'm not allowed to cuz you bring girls to your home."
Agree with NYCGori. Those girls that hang out with his son at the home are monitored by Papa Mirch.
Also........how does Mirch know that the other parents KNOW that girls came over to his home? Did the kids of the other parents tell their parents, "Mommy/Daddy....Mirch Junior had girls over at his house." ???????????? Is that how the other parents found out?
Because let's assume that the "other parents" came to visit Mirch and saw that his son was hanging out with some girls at home. In a situation like this....the "other parents" shouldn't make such a big deal because they should realize that MIRCH, THE FATHER......is at home to supervise his own son and his activities.
HOWEVER.........if the "other parents" NEVER saw the girls at Mirch's home.......then how do they know about this? The only way the "other parents" could find out is IF their OWN kids are telling them about what goes on at Mirch's home. OR......it's possible that Mirch's son told those kids that "My dad is cool with letting me bring girls to the house."........and this comment became misinterpreted/blown out of proportion by those kids and their parents.
ALSO......how does Mirch know that those "other parents" think that his son is a bad influence. It is because maybe one day Mirch's son asked his friends to come over to his house...........and those friends told him that "Nah, dude, I can't come over to your house. My parents say that I'm not allowed to cuz you bring girls to your home."
All of this just makes me wonder--wouldn't it be awesome if we all had the ba**s to clear up issues/questions we have about other people, what they're doing or not doing, what their intentions are, etc., before leaping to judgements? Would save a lot of hurt feelings I think.
Not to be a bee-jamalo but i'm sure if it were a parent talking about his/her daughter, the discussion (or at least the parent's attitude) would be totally different.
Reason being, a daughter's reputation is much more fragile than a son's, and unfortunately we cannot easily dismiss the "laug kya kahein gaye" thing when it comes to girls.
We all want change but nobody wants to sacrifice their own child for it obviosuly.
BIG time. This is why the thought of having a daughter sorta scares the hell out of me--how to raise her with character, morals, etc., while giving her the freedom to become a fully-realized person---and defend her from society's BS all at the same time.
Mirch, you are wearing the pants in your family and there is no reason an uncle should tell you the ethics to raise your kids. The liberty you have given to your son is running on a very very thin line, so you have to keep a very close watch so the things don't get out of your hand and takes an ugly turn........................................
Not exactly cages but women are “looney” thats what i heard from my mullah because they are made from a rip of Adam and because ribs are twisted therefore women are also a bit on the other side:) roflmao!!! Thats why contact should be limited otherwise women will drive men insane!
^ You should sooooo use your Mullah’s ideas as a pick-up line. I have not a shadow of a doubt in my mind that you will score more women than you can handle.
“Hey loony baby…you’re as twisted as my rib…and I want you just as close to me.”
Just as some/most kids from the so-called 'moderate' & 'liberal' backgrounds turn out ok, an exactly equal number of kids from the so-called 'stricter' and 'narrowminded' backgrounds turn out ok also. It just depends on how well you inculcate the values in your kids that you 'think' are good enough for your level of faith.
i must say i agree with you. mirch you have specific preferences and others have their own. i was brought up in exactly opposite manner. my parents sent me to an all girls school. i will probably make the same rules with my children and i will tell them to avoid the company that might tempt them to alter. does that mean i am wrong? or does that mean i rate people with your views as immoral? not necessarily, it jsut means that i have my preferences and i want to establish those in my home.
LOL , more often if a kid want to go to other kids home. I tell my kids to invite them over instead . The reason being I could observe (sneakily) what are they talking about or what are they doing. So far so good.
They are trying to shun my kid from the community. One of the pair of brothers told me that this uncle told his mom not to let her kids hang out with my kid as he is a bad influence due to the fact that I let my son invite his female classmates to my home.
Please refer to the lines I typed above.
For some reason the kids from other Muslim families love to hang out with my kids . They all go to same schools and same classes so surely they talk with each other. It is a small community and small city so every Muslim family and every Muslim kid know each other.
I have a daughter too who is turning 9 this year. We have celebrated many of her birthdays and we have many parties for her friends from school but she never ever invited any boy to these parties. She used to hang out as a baby till she was 5 with boy of that uncle whose mannerism is in question in this post. But then she found some girls in the neighborhood and started to hang out with them.
I or my wife never imposed any restriction on her but I think she knows what kind of parameters Islam and desi community and desi parents impose on boys and girls. She has Muslim girls as friends and I am sure they talk to each other about all these norms they are supposed to follow as Muslim girl
In her teen years I am going to tell her the same thing which I told my son when he started his high school . It would be her decision to bring boys home to do school projects or not. My own feeling and observation is that girls are more sensitive than boys , as to how others perceive or think about them.
LOL , when my son starting high school he asked me would I get him a cell phone I told him I will get him a cell phone and a hat with webcam fitted in it so that I could see all the time where he was and what he was doing. He laughed his heart out at that comment.
You are going to be a very lonely man my friend for a very long time.
See my comments about that above.
Yes we learn a lot from our parents. My parents were not strict but they had defined boundaries for us brothers and sisters so that is what I learned I guess. They surely taught us what is right and what is wrong and we followed those norms to the core growing up.
My parents were very strict in my opinion, but I intend to raise my kids the same way, Insha'Allah. I did not rebel as you hear other kids do when they have strict parents. I think it depends on how your parents raised you and what they taught you.
“Hey loony baby…you’re as twisted as my rib…and I want you just as close to me.” 
