Legislative … how long would we elect idiots to make laws for us just because they happen to be rich and powerful and might get sewerage system in our area fixed?
Executive… how long would we see people climbing up the branches of ‘public service’ so that they can build assets for their future generations?
Judiciary… how long would we continue seeing justice being sold to the highest bidder?
How long would we suffer this baseball by being played by baboons which they call ‘governance’?
Seriously? Democracies are not created in a few years. They take decades if not centuries as in the case of the US and the EU. So what do you want? A revolution like in Egypt? Or Syria? Or another military coup?
Legislative ... how long would we elect idiots to make laws for us just because they happen to be rich and powerful and might get sewerage system in our area fixed?
Executive... how long would we see people climbing up the branches of 'public service' so that they can build assets for their future generations?
Judiciary... how long would we continue seeing justice being sold to the highest bidder?
How long would we suffer this baseball by being played by baboons which they call 'governance'?
Would we, ever, say enough is enough?
Do you think citizenry have some responsibility in this or no? Btw, laws will not make difference as long as state sanctions, tolerates and promotes all kind of religious extremism. If you want to create a tolerant society get rid of discriminatory laws & separate religion from politics. That is the only way.
Seriously? Democracies are not created in a few years. They take decades if not centuries as in the case of the US and the EU. So what do you want? A revolution like in Egypt? Or Syria? Or another military coup?
I do believe that its a myth being fed to the people that Democracies take decades ! All it takes is sincere leadership that will place Law in supremacy , create the legal framework and regulations and implement it. And, this will take less then a year to get the country on track ..
I do believe that its a myth being fed to the people that Democracies take decades ! All it takes is sincere leadership that will place Law in supremacy , create the legal framework and regulations and implement it. And, this will take less then a year to get the country on track ..
Name one democracy that was created in less than 10 years. Go ahead. You got 4 centuries of history to look through.
Do you think citizenry have some responsibility in this or no? Btw, laws will not make difference as long as state sanctions, tolerates and promotes all kind of religious extremism. If you want to create a tolerant society get rid of discriminatory laws & separate religion from politics. That is the only way.
Religion teaches tolerance of all other beliefs and faith. The khulafa i Rashideen were able to manage their affairs whilst having religion as the base of all law making. Its the will of the "chosen" members of government , the way they are regulating or not regulating all forms of law. All we need "No one is above the law" attitude and rest will all fall in its place .
Name one democracy that was created in less than 10 years. Go ahead. You got 4 centuries of history to look through.
Nope Democracy isnt out issue, Law making , Law enforcement and implementation is ..
PS: it wasnt Democracy that took ages to get built, it was the well planned systems that took ages. And mind you, What EU or Britain went through was a transition from Anarchy to Democracy, Just getting Democracy in place isnt really worth taking that much time to happen !
Actually no. Because Rome last centuries, so did the British empire. There was no anarchy in the UK or half of Europe. What you had is a world war. Very very different. There was still law and order in Britain, in Japan, China, India etc.
But a dictatorship or a monarchy is unacceptable today. You had law and order in all those empires you also had slavery. You had discrimination. Aparthied.
So yeah Democracy matters a lot more than law and order. After all you have law and order in Saudi Arabia
But Shamraz, the killing was due to malice and hunger for power, which can happen with any Prime minister or President. That had nothing to do with the governance ..
The rift between Shia/Sunni didnt take place because of the Khulafa.. there were other reasons why it all began but definitely that wasnt the governance issue ..
No Saudi is a bad example. But at least its not suffering like Pakistan is!
I believe, Pakistani nation will have to say NO to the usual breed of politicians that represents them and try out new faces , it might take time, but a sincere leadership that will make and implement laws can then in turn set base to a solid Democracy. Otherwise , what good is a Democracy right now in Pakistan? Its been more then 60 years for goodness sake .. and lets not blame it all on the dictators .. Pakistani prospered alot more under the Dictators then it did under the Chosen Governments !
PS: I am dead against Dictators myself , just saying
Legislative ... h*ow long would we elect idiots to make laws for us just because they happen to be rich and powerful and might get sewerage system in our area fixed?
*
Executive... how long would we see people climbing up the branches of 'public service' so that they can build assets for their future generations?
Judiciary... how long would we continue seeing justice being sold to the highest bidder?
How long would we suffer this baseball by being played by baboons which they call 'governance'?
Would we, ever, say enough is enough?
Your first line spot on.
A few doctors we knew who live in Faisalabad all voted for Noon League. Why? Because they gave them fancy new facilities in the local medical college. Compared to what Noon Leage is doing to the rest of the country I find that reason to give them votes incredibly mind-boggling and short sighted and that too from educated middle class people.
No Saudi is a bad example. But at least its not suffering like Pakistan is!
I believe, Pakistani nation will have to say NO to the usual breed of politicians that represents them and try out new faces , it might take time, but a sincere leadership that will make and implement laws can then in turn set base to a solid Democracy. Otherwise , what good is a Democracy right now in Pakistan? Its been more then 60 years for goodness sake .. and lets not blame it all on the dictators .. Pakistani prospered alot more under the Dictators then it did under the Chosen Governments !
PS: I am dead against Dictators myself , just saying :)
Why is Saudi a bad example? It proves your point wrong completely.
Actually you don't need a new breed of politician. After all Zardari was not a new breed at all but the 18 Amendment was brilliant for our democracy. That is something everybody in Pakistan will give him credit for.
And the only way to say no is through elections. It will take 40 years maybe longer but that is the only way. After all remember that the founding fathers of the US were all slave owners. They were homophobic. They were racists. They didn't believe in woman's suffrage. They would not considered ideal leaders in this day and age. But the US democracy evolved over 2 centuries.
A few doctors we knew who live in Faisalabad all voted for Noon League. Why? Because they gave them fancy new facilities in the local medical college. Compared to what Noon Leage is doing to the rest of the country I find that reason to give them votes incredibly mind-boggling and short sighted and that too from educated middle class people.
Mentalities need to change too.
Reminds me of this group of ladies at a 14th August gathering once .. someone asked them why they voted for Benazir and they said , "uski lipstick collection is awesome" !
True story !!!
Nothings going to change unless we learn to make educated and mature decisions rather then opportunity based decisions
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Why is Saudi a bad example? It proves your point wrong completely.
Actually you don't need a new breed of politician. After all Zardari was not a new breed at all but the 18 Amendment was brilliant for our democracy. That is something everybody in Pakistan will give him credit for.
And the only way to say no is through elections. It will take 40 years maybe longer but that is the only way. After all remember that the founding fathers of the US were all slave owners. They were homophobic. They were racists. They didn't believe in woman's suffrage. They would not considered ideal leaders in this day and age. But the US democracy evolved over 2 centuries.
Because Saudi has very different government elements but is still very good in law enforcement and law making and is a peaceful country for its citizens. So I said Saudi cant be used as an example in Pakistan's scenario.
I do agree with you about saying No during elections. But we also know that majority of the people vote based on their opportunistic nature or frightened to go against the powerful. So really thats not our option.
I as a person cant ignore the WHOLE of the damaging blow Zardari gave to Pakistan in return for a single Amendment ! We need new people who will struggle to win the trust of the nation .. Not the ones who think they own all of our money and resources and kick us when the election is over !
Pakistan is unique to itself , its not really as complex and issue as it seems , it has its solution right infront of it : A sincere leadership who is not above the law! that is all that it needs to take the first step towards progression , why complicate it with 100 years of waiting for democracy !
Yes that is why you have a chapel in the White House. You have in “God we trust” on the US dollar bills. That is why Christmas is a holiday. Western Christendom is just that. Secular only applies if all aspects of religion are removed. That includes Chaplins in the military, and well the entire republican party.
Because Saudi has very different government elements but is still very good in law enforcement and law making and is a peaceful country for its citizens. So I said Saudi cant be used as an example in Pakistan's scenario.
I do agree with you about saying No during elections. But we also know that majority of the people vote based on their opportunistic nature or frightened to go against the powerful. So really thats not our option.
I as a person cant ignore the WHOLE of the damaging blow Zardari gave to Pakistan in return for a single Amendment ! We need new people who will struggle to win the trust of the nation .. Not the ones who think they own all of our money and resources and kick us when the election is over !
Pakistan is unique to itself , its not really as complex and issue as it seems , it has its solution right infront of it : A sincere leadership who is not above the law! that is all that it needs to take the first step towards progression , why complicate it with 100 years of waiting for democracy !
Its a racist society which does not follow basic Islamic principles or basic human rights. But it has law and order. So in that regard it should be perfect for Pakistan as you said our problem is not democracy but law and order. And Saudi Arabia has law and order so we should be like them.
Again generalizations that have no basis in fact. How do you know they voted based on opportunity? Its frankly not true as our democracy reflect more the European parliamentary form than any other on our entire history. It means that new parties got votes in key areas. There was a change in voting patterns. So it was not based on opportunity, if that was the case they would have stuck with the PPP. But there were changes. Incumbents lost. Actually set families with decades of wins in areas lost to new people.
Yes that is why you have a chapel in the White House. You have in "God we trust" on the US dollar bills. That is why Christmas is a holiday. Western Christendom is just that. Secular only applies if all aspects of religion are removed. That includes Chaplins in the military, and well the entire republican party.
You are confusing issues. The "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...".
There is no church of the USA & there are no laws that prevent anyone form holding public office b/c of his religions beliefs or lack thereof.
Exactly Zafra , thats my point, because new people came on board many of the old ones saw defeat .. but this only happened in cities not in rural areas where a vast majority is still a slave to the handful of politicians for their basic needs !
Khair , regards Saudi, agreed , its racist , but thats because it has varied nationals of countries living in Saudi. About the basic human rights , agreed again but its not as bad as media portrays it. Though it can get better. and that is the only side of Saudi that I cant favourably agree with either. No country is perfect. Not even Britain or US .. To get a solution for Pakistan, we dont need to look around us for examples.. We know what the problem is , many already know what the solution is .. send the ones who bribe and cause corruption into jail and watch them all fall in line .. get a leadership who wont be scared of making a law or enforce law without keeping its interests first ..
Thats what will make a major difference to the society after which Democracy can takes its time to nourish in a positive environment
