When Pakistanis are grouped with Indians

[KKF]

Re: When Pakistanis are grouped with Indians

@delhi2lahorekarachi

…I’m from Delhi but im not Punjabi so i may not have those qualities…

maiN bhii Indian huN Lucknow se magar maiN to dikhne meN Irani/spanish lagtaa huN!

[Jafri]

Re: When Pakistanis are grouped with Indians

I used to be offended but I don’t care anymore. Now I just point out that my parents were and will be the only generation of my family born in what is known as Pakistan today and let them come to conclusions.

[SpiceGirl]

@delhi2lahorekarachi

@SpiceGirl

Mmm Ive actually thought about this before. I think in the west people tend to think the muslims are Pakistanis and Indians are hindu. I only interact with muslims, Ive noticed Indian muslims (mostly friends) don’t mind being associated with Pakistan and tbh I consider them long lost Pakistanis lol. But hindus would def be considered Indian. … I guess it depends on what angle you take and what exposure other people in the west etc have about South Asian politics. … I tend not be called Indian (coz of the hijab) they just think some muslim chick lol. But if I was I would definitely correct them because I am patriotic but not in a OMG how dare you tone. You’ve just gotta educate people because they don’t have that exposure. … On another note, Ive noticed Pashtuns/lighter skinned Pakistanis don’t get classed as Indians because as racist as it sounds they TEND to be lighter skinned and associated with countires that are KNOWN to be fairer and more tanned Pakistanis get the Indian label (which is what Ive noticed). … But then again Ive seen really light skinned Indians get labelled as arabs etc. … Now that I think about its basically based on what the media portrays or how a group of people are shown to the masses. …Then it also comes to cultural similarities in weddings rasms etc, which people tend to class as one culture - u and I might understand the differences but to the untrained eye its the same… I don’t think you should feel necessarily negatively about, its just the way things are I guess.

Is it a conscious decision to only interact with Muslims or just who you happen to come across? Is tht hard to do in the west when you’re surrounded by so may non muslims? Actually i know indian hindu girls who are flattered to be called pakistanis. It’s good you keep away from the unholy non Muslim Indians. It is best not to get too close to them in case you get contaminated. But it is totally cool to interact with non indian non muslims they won’t rub off their bad habits into you. I have met 2 Indian hijabis. And some British pakistani hijabis who identify as British more than Pakistani because you know Tony Blair’s sister in law is a hijabi. UK is a secular country as is India so nothing wrong with it. I guess they may be less common in India and UK compared to Pakistan but definitely they do exist. Also there are many proud Pakistani Hindus like Deepak Perwani. But I agree to people in the West Indians=Hindu and Pakistanis=Muslim and they are treated accordingly. I’ve had some people from the UK say “oh that’s good you’re Indian. We don’t mind Indians because they’re not…” Then i have to say actually there are both Muslims and Hindus in India and Pakistan. That one shouldnt generalise about Pakistanis as the number of good Pakistanis outnumber the negative experiences they’ve heard/come across. I definitely think you should be prouder to be mistaken as Arab than Indian. What is the point of fair skin if one can’t pass for middle eastern or Arab?

Lol Waoh
You read too much into my reply. I hang out with those that I get along n since im a practicing muslim lo n behold so are friends. I dont have beef with hindus I just havent met many.
Seriously though theres similarities n diversity in the sub-continent n like I said you n I know that but others dnt. So westerners cant tell the difference n sumtimes they re not bothered. And whats the big deal with colour anyway? This is just a complex ppl have from the sub-continent. Like i said the arab reference is only made cuz theres heaps of arabs in our area - so ppl go by what they re exposed to.

But I always correct them whether I get mistaken for an arab or other nash (coz of the hijab) - imma proud Pakistani I never let that slide. waves Pakistani flag

[queer]

Re: When Pakistanis are grouped with Indians

@Geezer

This is not about that identity complex thing. My question is from a another perspective. Let’s say if you are in a community where people are being grouped based on their countries and Pakistanis and Bengalis are grouped as Indians, what will you think about it? its like labelling Australians as Brits or Koreans as Chinese.

where does this heppan, geejar jee? can you giving the examples?

[SindSagar]

Re: When Pakistanis are grouped with Indians

@Geezer

I was reading some statistics where the percentage of Pakistanis was grouped with Indians in a certain country. I know Indians are always eager to call Pakistanis as Indians but never seen a Pakistani who is happy to be called an Indian.

How do you feel when you are labelled as an Indian ? Does it mean anything to you?

Actually I do not consider myself a Cowboy nor an Indian…Qeema Sabhi

[delhi2lahorekarachi]

Re: When Pakistanis are grouped with Indians

@SindSagar

Actually I do not consider myself a Cowboy nor an Indian…Qeema Sabhi

what? you didn’t play cowboys and indians as a child? you missed out dude.

[delhi2lahorekarachi]

Re: When Pakistanis are grouped with Indians

@Khalil KhaaN FaaKhta

maiN bhii Indian huN Lucknow se magar maiN to dikhne meN Irani/spanish lagtaa huN!

haan haan. mujhe pata hai. jab aise hota hai aap to logon ko correct bhi nahi karte honge right? i bet you let them believe you are Irani/SPanish

[delhi2lahorekarachi]

Re: When Pakistanis are grouped with Indians

Dil dil Pakistan
Jaan Jaan Pakistan Let’s go Pakistan.

[delhi2lahorekarachi]

Re: When Pakistanis are grouped with Indians

@SpiceGirl

Lol Waoh
You read too much into my reply. I hang out with those that I get along n since im a practicing muslim lo n behold so are friends. I dont have beef with hindus I just havent met many.
Seriously though theres similarities n diversity in the sub-continent n like I said you n I know that but others dnt. So westerners cant tell the difference n sumtimes they re not bothered. And whats the big deal with colour anyway? This is just a complex ppl have from the sub-continent. Like i said the arab reference is only made cuz theres heaps of arabs in our area - so ppl go by what they re exposed to.

But I always correct them whether I get mistaken for an arab or other nash (coz of the hijab) - imma proud Pakistani I never let that slide. waves Pakistani flag

Your patriotism is quite inspiring. This song is for you. ENjoy.

haan haan hum sindhi. hum balochi hain. hum pakhtun hai..haan hum punjabi. par pehle pakistani hain. jaan hai pehchaan hai.

[khoji]

Re: When Pakistanis are grouped with Indians

@McPendo

Actually we are part of the indian civilization, we’re from the Indian Race, apart from the “arabz” wannabes. We’re Indians Marking out a territory doesn’t make you different

Pashtuns, Baloch, Kashmiris, Baltis, Gilgitis, Makranis; have nothing to do with that Indian “race”.
So please speak for yourself only.

[delhi2lahorekarachi]

Re: When Pakistanis are grouped with Indians

@khoji

Pashtuns, Baloch, Kashmiris, Baltis, Gilgitis, Makranis; have nothing to do with that Indian “race”.
So please speak for yourself only.

Of course speaking for everyone is difficult and there is great variety in the subcontinent unconnected and diverse from others. Though i do have some family initially from Kashmir who shifted to Rajasthan in India. Also i do recall Raaj Kumar was from balochistan and moved around partition time.
But definitely quite a few Pakistanis may not relate to quite a few Indians as may be case vice versa. Their experience should not be neglected.

[McPendo]

Re: When Pakistanis are grouped with Indians

@khoji

Pashtuns, Baloch, Kashmiris, Baltis, Gilgitis, Makranis; have nothing to do with that Indian “race”.
So please speak for yourself only.

Ha yet these people some how miraculously exist in the subcontinent but aren’t a part of the “Indian Race”. These people exist therefore they collectively share in the DNA which is spread throughout the sub continent. I wasn’t referring the the very fringe minorities that exist on the outskirts of the subcontinent. The Pashtuns are more Afghan, the Kashmiris are again a small minority who are descendants of Alexander the great. Baltis, Gilgitis share more with the mongols and makranis are migrants from Africa. These people settled from different parts in to Indian subcontinent MUCH later than the Dravidian and Aryans did.

@delhi2lahorekarachi

Of course speaking for everyone is difficult and there is great variety in the subcontinent unconnected and diverse from others. Though i do have some family initially from Kashmir who shifted to Rajasthan in India. Also i do recall Raaj Kumar was from balochistan and moved around partition time.
But definitely quite a few Pakistanis may not relate to quite a few Indians as may be case vice versa. Their experience should not be neglected.

Dehli2lahorekarachi, you’ve raised a good point, the reason most Pakistanis don’t want to associate with Indian is the “Kala Sahib” The Black Sir complex instilled in us by the British. The “Gora Sahib” left and put in the “Kala Sahib” in charge and like the Kala sahib trying to distinguish himself from his black Indian counterparts decided to associate his entire genealogy with the Arabs and Iranians. That is the reason why they don’t want to associate with the “Indian Race” because the complex kicks in and they think “I am not a black hindu, I am a gora Musalmaan PAKISTANI”. Sad how people think in this day and age and ignore their heritage and culture…

And Khoji, travel to the most northern part of Kashmir and there is a famous mandir in the Mir Pur region, this is a hindu mandir that is still being used by the small group of Kashmiri Hindus there, now ask yourself if someone asked those Hindus, if they’re part of the Indian civilization they will wholeheartedly agree that they are.

[delhi2lahorekarachi]

Re: When Pakistanis are grouped with Indians

double posted

[delhi2lahorekarachi]

Re: When Pakistanis are grouped with Indians

@McPendo

Dehli2lahorekarachi, you’ve raised a good point, the reason most Pakistanis don’t want to associate with Indian is the “Kala Sahib” The Black Sir complex instilled in us by the British. The “Gora Sahib” left and put in the “Kala Sahib” in charge and like the Kala sahib trying to distinguish himself from his black Indian counterparts decided to associate his entire genealogy with the Arabs and Iranians. That is the reason why they don’t want to associate with the “Indian Race” because the complex kicks in and they think “I am not a black hindu, I am a gora Musalmaan PAKISTANI”. Sad how people think in this day and age and ignore their heritage and culture…

And Khoji, travel to the most northern part of Kashmir and there is a famous mandir in the Mir Pur region, this is a hindu mandir that is still being used by the small group of Kashmiri Hindus there, now ask yourself if someone asked those Hindus, if they’re part of the Indian civilization they will wholeheartedly agree that they are.

It is a very diverse civilisation. From the architectural marvals of the Mohenjo daro and Harappa civilisation to Taxila, birthplace of the first university, where people from near and far came to study (from China, Greece, Arab world etc and within the subcontinent including Charaka the father of Ayurveda and eastern medicine). Kashmir name came from Maharishi Kashyup and many Kashmiri Pandits are from Kashmir, yet it has nothing to do with Indian civilisation yeh kaisi baat hai?

I admire your knowledge of the subcontinent and your bravery to tell how you think things are despite the flak you might get for it. We are both plagued with the inferiority complex and requirement to be fair. Not sure how or if that will fade away.

I guess I understand the need to be associated more with Arabs rather than Indian. I mean the Indian is darker and may be perceived as less good looking. Arabs are fair, powerful and have less poverty. It does upset me when Arabs do not treat Pakistanis or Indians right.Although i am sure that is a minority. I feel more for Pakistanis not treated right in the Middle East as the sentiments of respect that quite a few Pakistanis hold for the Arab world should be reciprocated. Not that Indians these days are that much better with the government and all the media here and in the West differentiating between us. Despite the bitter past there is this brotherhood between common Indians and Pakistanis. You often hear of tales of great hospitality between Indian and Pakistani tourists. I do believe there is more discrimination for subcontinental people in the Middle east compared to any other subcontinental country. People still consider you their own if you have similar roots eg shared culture amongst Punjabis (Mammohan Singh is celebrated in his Pakistan village he is from and Nawaz Sharif’s victory was celebrated in his father’s village of Amritsar).

I do not think any Indian would mind a Pakistani saying we have common roots and civilisation. Though I admit there are unfortunately some Indians, moreso in the West, unaware of this cultural heritage, who try to distance themselves from Pakistanis and see themselves as different, "more modern, " and perhaps more “intellectual.” I guess both sides have that complex.

I know personally i would not be offended to be called Pakistani (would take it as a compliment) and i would try to inform others of this rich cultural heritage. I would be proud to acknowledge the first centre of learning in the Ancient world was from Pakistan and that we were so developed compared to nomadic tribes in other parts of the world at the time. While Pakistanis are trying to align themselves with Arabs, Indians are trying to align with the West. In the end who will be the real south Asians?

I mean there is no compulsion if some do not want to be associated with Indians but I believe the achievements of the Indian civilisation are equally Indian as well as Pakistani. Be that yoga (which had its origins in Pakistan as well), ayurveda (whose founder studied in Taxila), Buddhist teachings (as Buddha did spend 30-40 years in Pakistan), invention of number 0 to the beautiful Mughal architecture scattered around India and Pakistan. I do not think it makes any country less Islamic in acknowledging its Pre-Islamic past. Egypt is proud of their Pyramids etc.

I mean the word India/Indian is Pakistani itself as it was named by foreigners after the Indus river flowing through mostly Pakistan. So technically i am Pakistani in a way. lol. Personally, I hope to have a chance to visit all those marvels in Pakistan and Indian and I hope most Pakistanis do too.

There is a place in Bihar, India called Pakistan, named after those leaving for East Pakistan, and the residents proudly call themselves Pakistani till today. There has been no attempt to change the name of the place.

I mean don’t quite a few Indians and Pakistanis see themselves as desis. That implies that they do see themselves and their cultural heritage as similar. The word desi is an Indo-Aryan Sanskrit originating from Sanskrit word "desh"meaning region or country.

In fact a lot of Sanskrit comes from not only India but also Pakistan including Panini, the famous Sanskrit Grammarian from Charsadda of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa in Pakistan who devised 4000 sanskrit rules. Then with time many Indian Muslim rulers in 13th and 14thC further studied and influenced further study of Sanskrit such as Shahbuddin and Zainul-Abedin.

I guess I respect that some Pakistanis don’t want to be associated with India as it might make them seem less patriotic. Vice versa with some Indians.Not all feel that way though. I feel I can still consider Pakistanis as my people as people of the subcontinent and still respect Pakistani sovereignty. I guess like Norway, Sweden are both separate but Scandinavian countries originally part of a Scandinavia.

[the_kaur]

Re: When Pakistanis are grouped with Indians

I am the liberalest :D, I cal every south Indian, a Madrasi and every gora angrez, who can in the world can know, ki yeh maa ka ladla angrez nahi german hai

[delhi2lahorekarachi]

Re: When Pakistanis are grouped with Indians

@the_kaur

I am the liberalest :D, I cal every south Indian, a Madrasi and every gora angrez, who can in the world can know, ki yeh maa ka ladla angrez nahi german hai

haha we delhi walas have big hearts baat sahi hai ya nahi. what if u called german wala french wala?

[the_kaur]

Re: When Pakistanis are grouped with Indians

@delhi2lahorekarachi

haha we delhi walas have big hearts baat sahi hai ya nahi. what if u called german wala french wala?

WE even call every person from north east, Chinki, never mind if he is naga, manipuri, or Kuki, for us everyone is chinki. How to expect a foreigner to differentiate between a pakistani or Indian, lahore is less than 60 KMs from Amritsar

[delhi2lahorekarachi]

Re: When Pakistanis are grouped with Indians

@the_kaur

WE even call every person from north east, Chinki, never mind if he is naga, manipuri, or Kuki, for us everyone is chinki. How to expect a foreigner to differentiate between a pakistani or Indian, lahore is less than 60 KMs from Amritsar

lol chinki and kuki. haha sahi baat hai bilkul.Aap Punjabi log bahut cute hote hain. Door se katarnak aur paas se bilkul friendly. Dushman ke dushman aur doston ke dost. you know how to be the jaan of the party. I think it is true for both Indian and Pakistani Punjabi. I only got so far as Amritsar. That means i was 60 km away lol. Delhi se i think Lahore se 10 hrs. Ek din saath mein safar karenge

[delhi2lahorekarachi]

Re: When Pakistanis are grouped with Indians

jumpyg i think aap ki mulaqat hui thi delhi walon se..impression acha raha hoga kyun nahi rehta dilwale jo hain

[hareem01]

Re: When Pakistanis are grouped with Indians

I don’t mind being called an Indian when in UK. When in Gulf I don’t like being called an Indian.

Actually, some Arab women thought I was an Arab Christian just coz I wasnt covering my hair…it felt worse than being called an Indian.

Recently, in a restaurant, a Syrian guy asked if I were Iranian…I would’ve been delighted but considering the current conflict between Iran and Syria I proudly said, “Pakistani”.