When is divorce the solution...?

*disclaimer in advance i know this is a sensitive topic. this thread is not meant to make anyone who is divorced feel bad and i sincerely mean this. i have friends and now some cousins who are divorced and i truly can respect the fact that a divorce is a highly misfortunate happenning but doesn’t mean that someone who is divorced is bad or has committed a blatant one sided fault.

I just want to probe further into the psyche of divorce…

and i hardly want to take pleasure at someone’s misfortunes b/c i have TRULY experienced that when you do that Allah swt DEFINITELY makes you face the same obstacles and throws the same misfortunes in your own face…

I’d really appreciate some kind of insight into this matter from people who have gone through a divorce or whose near and dear ones have gone through a divorce, people who have seen a divorce happen closely…

I was always a proponent of the concept that a couple once married should stick together NO MATTER WHAT and that divorce should never ever EVER be an option…

It is one of the most hated acts in front of Allah swt’s eyes…plus the stigma attached to it in our society atleast used to be huge…

There’s this concept in desi culture that when a daughter is leaving her father’s home at the time of marriage she should have the thought in her mind that her “doli” is leaving her father’s house and only her “janaza” should leave from her susraal, and she must spend her entire life as a devoted wife in her susraal.

Recently though after seeing some married couples I’ve started to think whether this is a realistic/practical thought…?

Its also true that recently the ratio of divorce in Pakistan has been on the rise.

I heard from someone who visits the city courts in Karachi regularly that she sees people who are old enough to be grandparents contesting divorce cases and wanting divorce after living together for 20, 30 years.

If you are such a couple that whenever you talk you fight or atleast 70% of the times you fight, there is a huge communication gap, you can’t even share a joke and laugh together light heartedly, your thoughts on every matter seem to be entirely different, your relatives dont trust your spouse and your spouse’s relatives don’t trust you, your marital relationship is non existent and you’re simply two people living in the same house, you not just emotionally but physically abuse each other when you have fights…

Is there a virtue then in your being together?

We say that children benefit from the mother and father being together. But do children benefit when they see their parents fighting all the time or their parents having a really weird relationship and thus there being tension in the house all the time? Is that a healthy atmosphere for the house?

The fight usually translates into the next generation, the children, as well and then the children get divided between the parents. And then the relationship of the child who is on the side of one parent goes bad with the other parent. And what kind of a human being are you when your relationship with your own parent is not good, what hope can you have for the future then, because Allah swt will never be happy with someone whose parent is not happy with them. The siblings themselves become enemies of one another.

Is it true that it all boils down to:

How sacred do you hold the idea of marriage to not break that bond?

And also there is an assumption that two people who are in a marriage do necessarily want the marriage to work. But I guess this is wrong or is it?

There seems to be pros and cons in both situations.

If you fight when you are together, atleast there must be some times when you cherish each other’s companionship, atleast you are married to each other. And life is not always a bed of roses anyway, there’s always good and bad days. Is it really true that one is happier after the divorce? Is happiness not a state of mind or is it really the result of circumstances? Maybe one could have convinced themselves that they were indeed happy before the divorce just like they are able to convince themselves afterwards.

If you get divorced, then you are no longer together, you are alone. You, and your kids, are attached with the social stigma of divorce, which can be shaken off, but just like any other negative experience of like, it is a black spot in your personal life, and shakes your confidence in yourself. If you get remarried then there are pros and cons to that too.

As for the children being affected and divided, that happens in the case of before and after divorce both.

Can the effort that leads to dealing with the post divorce trauma not be applied towards improving the marital relationship?

Another thing is…recently, in front of my eyes, I have seen so many marriages go bad, and so many people have marital problems, that the whole idea of marriage seems really really scary. It seems like marriage itself is such a huge responsibility, almost a task? Married life is so much constant emotional and physical work? I really feel sometimes like do I even have it in me to sustain a relationship? Is it better for one if they remain single, not get married, at least that way they will only spoil their own life, and won’t have the gunah (sin) of spoilng the lives of their spouse and their kids if they don’t come up to the proper role that is expected of a married person?

Can some people who are happilly married (Its so difficult to find such couples these days :bummer: ) tell me about this? How do you guys feel about marriage and how it has added to your life and what it means to you to be married and have a family? Do you have some positive things to say?

Is it true that it all boils down to:

How sacred do you hold the idea of marriage to not break that bond?

yeh sacred lafaz say mujhay kuch takleef hoa rahi hai. define sacred.
utltimately irem in yr mind, the traditional religous intonation is a very strong one, and so i wonder how u can be ready to take on arguments openly on this one. khair, i wont derial this, its a nice topic.

no, please, go ahead…i’d like to hear…

if your opinion IS ethically right, why should it bother me…and also, if it is ethically right it can’t be against Islam though ofcourse it can be non-traditional..

so please go ahead :slight_smile:

edit: btw ye “sacred” lafz se aap ko takleef kyu ho rahi hae? :hehe: by “sacred” i guess mera matlab tha “a relationship that demands respect and importance” aur toh kuch bhee nai :slight_smile:

If he hits you, emotionally abuses you, cheats on you, is gay, doesn't provide for you then divorce his ass.

Divorce ain't gonna go away. The trouble with it is our changing perception of divorce. Its increasingly being seen as a first step to sorting out marital problems rather than an absolute last resort.

I think to counter this problem, couples should get compulsary councilling before marriage, instead of at the time of divorce.

hmmm

but cat

normally when people enter a marriage they want to give it their best shot and make it work, and they start off on a good slate, so one has to think why is he or she hitting me, emotionally abusing me and cheating on me, what have i done? coz usually its both the parties fault…though sometimes ofcourse sometimes one person IS more at fault…

abt the GAY part… no comments :hehe:

:k:

you’re right about this that people view it as a first step now as opposed to the last resort..

abt the pre marriage counselling, traditionally family members are supposed to provide that to the couple unofficially but these days people hardly get time to talk to their children and siblings and cousins abt these things and so usually people enter marriage unprepared without any kind of warning and advice i guess…

I am sure many of you witnessed couples who are an absolute mismatch, and even in front of others, never get along and ALWAYS fight. A marriage like that, where the only thing thats keeping the couple together are the children who act like some sort of glue is totally useless.

It's in the best interests of the children and the couple to get a divorce rather than go the thru having to see their parents tear each other apart day after day.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by irem: *
normally when people enter a marriage they want to give it their best shot and make it work, and they start off on a good slate, so one has to think why is he or she hitting me, emotionally abusing me and cheating on me, what have i done? coz usually its both the parties fault...though sometimes ofcourse sometimes one person IS more at fault...
[/QUOTE]

In my family, both in Pakistan and in the west, that question never arises. Marital abuse is simply not tolerated and women who separate from their spouses for this reason receive much sympathy.

Mistreating one's wife is a line that simply must never be crossed no matter what!

I believe that what you said can be rephrased as: It's ok for a man to beat or otherwise abuse his wife into changing her behaviour.

Yeah Irem there is absolutely no excuse for physical or emotional abuse!! No matter what the other person has done, unless its in self-defense.

irem khala, you won't fully comprehend the issues of divorce until you eventually get married first. So just enjoy this 'freedom of thought' while it lasts.

Chalo jao TV per urdu cartoon daikho. Yay topic bachoN kay liyay theek nahee hay.

Aur haan, it's easy to talk than to actually get slapped and think, "it must have been my fault that he is hitting me'.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by skhan: *
I am sure many of you witnessed couples who are an absolute mismatch, and even in front of others, never get along and ALWAYS fight. A marriage like that, where the only thing thats keeping the couple together are the children who act like some sort of glue is totally useless.

It's in the best interests of the children and the couple to get a divorce rather than go the thru having to see their parents tear each other apart day after day.
[/QUOTE]

skhan, see, this is the thing thats debatable...that in such a situation IS IT really better to have a divorce? or is it better to carry on?

and these were the exact things i was talking abt in my post..

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *

In my family, both in Pakistan and in the west, that question never arises. Marital abuse is simply not tolerated and women who separate from their spouses for this reason receive much sympathy.

Mistreating one's wife is a line that simply must never be crossed no matter what!

[/QUOTE]

well this is true

mistreating one's spouse shud not be allowed

i'm myself a sister, daughter and so on...and i have noticed that within these relationships too i commit excesses many times that i should NOT...i do things that are not right...

and the same goes for any relationship..im sure no one is a perfect person all the time...

humans do make mistakes..but they shud try to improve themselves ofcourse...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *
I believe that what you said can be rephrased as: It's ok for a man to beat or otherwise abuse his wife into changing her behaviour.
[/QUOTE]

i dint say that

wife beating IS wrong no matter what, and in Islam it has been said that no matter WHAT your wife does you should not physically hit her

true, definitely, abuse of any type is wrong..

funguy baji i know girls like that who, after getting beaten, still think like that. i, personally, obviously cant comment coz i am not in that position, but there are many ppl like that, more than u might think.

and i dont watch urdu cartoons :rolleyes: u go and watch them yourself :stuck_out_tongue:

when it gets tough to pass a single day under the same roof - time to call it quits. ( of course after you have worked out all your compromises)

One thing I have noticed - in desi lands the stigma of divorce is a no-no...couples try as hard as possible to patch up - but once it goes above a certain level - time to say goodbye to each other..

I have seen many cases where the couple is too happy to see each others back than to worry about societal taunts.

funguy is a girl :eek: heart attack

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bitter: *
when it gets tough to pass a single day under the same roof - time to call it quits. ( of course after you have worked out all your compromises)

One thing I have noticed - in desi lands the stigma of divorce is a no-no...couples try as hard as possible to patch up - but once it goes above a certain level - time to say goodbye to each other..

I have seen many cases where the couple is too happy to see each others back than to worry about societal taunts.
[/QUOTE]

bitter

lekin

what is TOUGH? what is that CERTAIN LEVEL?

bv kahan rehti ho yaar :smiley: poora Gupshup jaanta hae ye baat aur tumhein ab pata chal rha hae :smack:
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p.s. he’s a guy, i jus call him baji coz of his threads in home economics forum :smiley:

If the marriage was an arranged marriage, then the divorce should also be arranged. If it was a marriage where both people like one another, and if they find themselves drifting apart, then the best thing to happen for them is to get divorce.

Yeah, ab Irem bari ho gayi hain, ab woh Angraizi cartoon dekhti hain :smooth:

I can’t say much about this topic because the only person who can say something about it is the one who has been through this. I can’t even feel the pain and hardship of what one goes through at that time, therefore, I don’t think I should sit here and debate on this not knowing what one actually goes through.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by irem: *

what is TOUGH? what is that CERTAIN LEVEL?
[/QUOTE]

Irem, I don't think you can 'define' that. It varies from person to person. Everyone has a different way of handling situations/problems. Something I find offensive, might not be a big deal to another. And vice versa.

I'm sure people who go through a divorce don't find it a joy ride. Most people value relationships. When they get married, they don't "plan" to bail out if things don't work out. There's a lot that goes through their mind for them to reach such a drastic decision.

Like funguy said, a person really can't understand something unless he/she is put into the situation. And that's not just for a problematic relationship. It goes for anything. It's a lot easier said than done.

ps. Don't know if that made any sense. :-\