When exactly did MQM or Khi-tes killed Punjabis?

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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While speaking to a friend today, I learned how there seems to be resentment about how Khi-tes or MQM killed lots of Punjabis back when I was too small or wasn’t around. The army had to step in and had to control/fix things. Also, I was told that Khi-tes were very happy that Punjabis were getting killed in Karachi.

All my life, I have never ever heard in my family or friends that Punjabis were killed and it’s something that we are happy about.

Also, I was told how Khi-tes have a complex because we don’t really have a culture and Punjabis do and their culture is dominant, so that is a reason why we have complex or have issues.

Again, I find it something that I have never heard about or felt.

Is there any truth to whatever I heard today?

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Re: When exactly did MQM or Khi-tes killed Punjabis?

This is the reason, because MQM is the most violent and corrupt party in the history of Pakistan....

UK probes Pakistan benefits case

Dr Khan offered to pay back any outstanding money owed
British officials say they are investigating allegations that a senior Pakistani politician received UK state benefits after returning to Karachi.
But a spokeswoman said there was little that could be done to make Dr Ishrat-Ul-Ebad Khan return the money.

Dr Khan is alleged to have been in receipt of Income Support worth around £1,000 (59,680 rupees) a month, for 10 months after leaving the country.

He sought asylum in 1992, and allegedly claimed benefits from 1999 to 2003.

His spokesman said authorities were told when he left London to become head of Sindh province in 2002, but admitted his wife kept receiving the cheques.

The Department for Work and Pensions said that there are three courses of action that can now be taken against Dr Khan.

He can be cautioned, face financial penalties or be subjected to court proceedings.

But a spokeswoman said none of these courses of action seemed feasible now that Dr Khan is back in Karachi.

She said that Dr Khan - who now lives in a two storey mansion in Karachi - received financial assistance from 1992-99 as an asylum-seeker.

'Unambiguous offer'

On being granted either refugee status or citizenship in 1999 he would then have sought social security benefits.

She said there was "no question" about his entitlement to all financial assistance received up to December 2002 when he returned to Pakistan to be inaugurated as Sindh governor.

The governor lives in some style in Karachi

In dispute are the months between December 2002 and October 2003 when the authorities in Britain were not made aware of the change in family circumstances and continued to pay out.

The British Daily Telegraph newspaper said Housing Benefit received by Dr Khan funded the £244-a-week rent on the north London home in which three of their four children still live.

The governor had "unambiguously" offered to return whatever money he may still be owing to the UK authorities, his media advisor Salahuddin Haider told the BBC News website.

He said that Dr Khan his wife had written to the authorities and asked them to stop the payments but she kept receiving the cheques in the post.

He said once the cheques were stopped, the couple returned whatever excess money that had been drawn.

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Re: When exactly did MQM or Khi-tes killed Punjabis?

Sadiyah do you want the long version or the short version?

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Re: When exactly did MQM or Khi-tes killed Punjabis?

Zakk, short please.

Joseph, I'm assuming Dr. Khan is a member or in a high position in the MQM party?

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Re: When exactly did MQM or Khi-tes killed Punjabis?

i wud really like to have a long version...why not post both?

----> TimePass
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Re: When exactly did MQM or Khi-tes killed Punjabis?

Load of crap.

Bad things happened in the eighties and nineties, but to say it was targeted or enjoyed is sick. Propaganda my dear little friend, thats all to it.

Muhajirs hv lived in Punjab since partition and hv assimilated in their society with no problem at all. If they can live together in Punjab why wud Khi be an exception, think about it.

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Re: When exactly did MQM or Khi-tes killed Punjabis?

Saying Khi-ites is a gross generalisation. There are Punjabi karachiites, Pashtun karachiites, Baluch karachiites, Sindhi karachiites and Muhajir karachiites.

The MQM killed anyone who was opposed to them, regardless of their ethniticy. The MQM killed Punjabis, Baluchs, Sindhis, Muhajirs, Pashtuns, people from outside Karachi and people born and raised in Karachi.

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Re: When exactly did MQM or Khi-tes killed Punjabis?

ghulail: the short answer to your request for a lone one is that I'd be tiring myself out :p

Ok here goes in brief: In the late 70's and early 80's there was a massive influx of migrants from North Pakistan (Punjab and NWFP) into Karachi. Karachi between 1948-1984 was essentially a "Mohajir" city (prior to that it was a Sindhi/Baloch city). The local urdu speaking migrants had began to feel deprived of power and control over their own city. The reasons :
1) till 1984 the Pakistani civil service was overwhelmingly Mohajir-urdu speakers (because they were the literate class ) after Pakistans independance by the 70's and 80..that generation was retiring and being replaced by Punjabis and Pashtuns.
2) Democractic elections reduced their power even further as Mohajir-Urdu speakers were not a major ethnic group (unlike Punjabis who were numerically dominant)
3) Provincially the Mohajirs-Urdu speakers faced an additional discrimination from resurgent Sindhi Nationalism under the PPP. Sindis who felt that the Urdu Speakers-Mohajirs "stole" Karachi from them and treated them badly.
4) Lastly the other source of Mohajir-Urdu Speakers power was in the business community, this power was broken by Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto when he nationalised industry and was further damaged by Zia ul Haq who denationalised certain industries but did not compensate those Mohajir-Urdu speakers who did not support his policies (he also gave out loans to politicians to start businesses which tipped the playing field against many Mohajir-Urdu speakers)
5) Mohajir-Urdu speakers felt they were discriminated against in Pakistan as Karachi contributed the bulk of revene to the nation but received the least..Mohajirs-Urdu speakers also felt discrimianted against in the Army and police whichw as dominated by Punjabis and Pashtuns..

Now that the background has been explained, here goes the events of the 80's, the MQM was formed around the early 80's, it was intensely ethnic and xenophobic ..and it's first clashes were with the Pashtun community ..this triggered tit for tat retaliation. Initially the Sindhi anti PPP nationalists supported the MQM..that soon changed when clashes erupted between Sindhis and the MQM. While all these events were ongoing there was a build up of anger towards Punjabis because the police and Army when they intervened whenever violence broke out were perceived to support Punjabis. At the same time the Army and Pakistans powers that be ..perceived the MQM as an increasingly violent insurection challenging the writ of the state. This lead to a show down..when the Army during Nawaz Sharifs time (and according to Nawaz Sharif against his wishes) kicked off Operation Clean Up. There was a massive crackdown on the MQM and many indiscriminate arrests of innocent people as well.. and as all members of the MQM at the time ...all arrests and cases of abuse were committed on Mohajirs-urdu speakers by a mostly Punjabi Pashtun Army.

Again tit for tat killings..this time between Mohajirs and Punjabis started..when the Army pulled out they were replaced by the Rangers and other paramilitary forces ..and the PPP was in power again..the PPP having it's own axe to grind and not willing to allow the MQM to dominate or create anymore instability..let the police and paramilitary unlimited powers to do what they wished to restore peace to karachi..by 1996 the worst of the violence has passed..and the MQM staged a come back by coming into power again with the help of Nawaz Sharif..

Phew thats it..I apologise for any errors in what I've written I probably have missed some facts..anyway that was the short version..feel free to ask any questions..I've skipped loads of bits to make it "flow" lol...

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Re: When exactly did MQM or Khi-tes killed Punjabis?

Yes, he is…and the Governor of the Sindh Province…

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Re: When exactly did MQM or Khi-tes killed Punjabis?

Sadiyya I have heard that some MQM were even coming out of Karachi and attacking Punjabis and some Pashthuns in other parts. Even heard of a few kidnappings.
I know for certain that there was a sort of a gang or group that a bunch of Punjabis and Pashthuns formed that used to go around and start hitting back at MQM people. I knew a guy who was a former member and he used to say that these people would torture the MQM people the kidnapped.. Very weird stuff!

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Re: When exactly did MQM or Khi-tes killed Punjabis?

Wow, thatbnks for the insight Zak.. Much appreciated!

Thread for chochi chi bachi cause...
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Re: When exactly did MQM or Khi-tes killed Punjabis?

May I ask.. How many people here are MQM member or Urdu Speaking?

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Re: When exactly did MQM or Khi-tes killed Punjabis?

fartguru, that's more or less what I think it is.

mad_scientist, I use the word 'khi-tes' for Urdu speaking people in Karachi.

zakk, so it's been tit for tat all along, then why single out and blame mohajirs for it? Afterall according to what you said, Punjabis and Pashtoons did put up a fight. Besides, countless Urdu speaking people in Karachi were kidnapped, brutally, tortured, murdered, etc. Btw... thanks a bunch for the summary. I wonder if there is another view to it.

joseph, thanks. I wasn't aware of it. In fact, I didn't even know who he is.

pakpatriot1, yes, urdu speaking residesnts in Karachi as well as members of MQM were tortured, murdered, etc.

I'm Urdu speaking, but I don't have any links or ties with MQM.

Net in Pak!
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Re: When exactly did MQM or Khi-tes killed Punjabis?

ZAKK,

I must say, an excellent synopsis.

With your permission wud like to add a few more points.

  1. ZAB PPP imposed quota system on Sindh which has no parrallels in rest of the country. Idea was to promote rural population of Sindh which actually turned into another ethnic discrimination instrument. Muhajirs were discriminated in educational institutes, federal services and other resources. Karachiite boys and girls with first divisions cud not get admission into professional colleges, their only source of well being while interior sindh boys and girls with second and third divisions were being allowed. This practice extended into federal service commissions, all of this just kept on ading up, leading to a natural reaction in the form of ethnicity based political party ie Mqm.

  2. Prior to the eighties, Muhajirs always prided in their Pakistaniath. There was never any call or claim for creating a separate party which wud protect their political and economic rights. At the same time, Pakistan had its share of ethnic parties such as Sindhu Desh, Jeeay Sindh, Pakhtun Federation, BSF etc etc. While Muhajir boys and girls wud enter into professional colleges and universities as citizens of Pakistan, other ethnic students wud be active members of their ethnic circle. In times of crises, there was a tendency to move towards their ethnic party and this was witnessed even in the premier parties such as Jamaat which promoted national politics on the campus but openly supported ethnicity based politics in hostels.

  3. Probably the most important aspect which gets lost in the maize is the influx of drugs, drug money, klashinkoffs (guns) and Jihadi transit routes into Afghanistan. With Zia jumping on the American band wagon of ousting the Soviets from Afghanistan, Pakistan witnessed its worst nightmare in the form of drugs and KK culture. Karachi being the port where most of this trade was routed was not spared and suddenly our fortunes changed. Peace loving, middle class professionals, working class people who never saw a gun, were all of a sudden face to face with an absolutely new culture. Agencies (ISI) in their bid to please their masters created networks to run this jihadi culture and this needed boys/men who cud be exploited. Thus the creation of these gangs whose sole purpose was racketeering in drugs and ammunition. It is unfortunate, but at the same time APMSO was transitioning from a student party into a Provincial party. With its popularity came those who were criminalized by this new drugs/gun culture. One thing led to another and new powers clashed with the traditional power bases may it be gangs, transport monopolies, construction or trade, Karachi was never to be the same again.

Sorry guys for this very longish drivel, but being a Karachitte watching how my city and its ppl hv suffered is of immense pain and resentment. Thanks

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Re: When exactly did MQM or Khi-tes killed Punjabis?

Well simple really..people in their 20’s and 30’s remember the 1980’s and 1990’s specifically remember one event: the MQM openly and violently defying the state and killing people who disagreed with it..at one stage there were areas of karachi where a Sindhi (who legitimately have a claim to Karachi) or Punjabi could not walka round in…there is a lot of blame to go around in what happened in Karachi..Sindhis suffered years of discrimination in jobs and other matters and despite being geographically closer to sind were not preffered in major development projects..there was also a level of encouragement of the violence in karachi by the pwoers that be in pakistan because the MQM was a counterweight to the PPP in interior Sind..later on when realisation hit that that the MQM had become too strong the powers that be in pakistan attempted to create another MQM (using disgruntled MQM members)…after that the MQM made two major mistakes which effectively ended it;s claim to being the party that represented most Mohajirs..they boycotted general elections in 1993 and local government elections in 2001. This led to a strong erosion of their support with many voters drifting to the religo-political parties. Despite that their is a lot of resentment against the federal government by karachiites..even now..but if you look across a cross section of karachi locals you will see that feeling is not peculiar to one ethnicity.

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Re: When exactly did MQM or Khi-tes killed Punjabis?

what is % of punjabis ,pathan and mujahirs in army ?

Would you go to Afghanistan
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Re: When exactly did MQM or Khi-tes killed Punjabis?

fartguru, thanks for brief summary.

After reading Zakk and fartguru's summaries, I feel it is quite evident that at one point in time (and most likely now as well) Urdu speaking Karachites were discriminated by Sindhis for sure and to an extent Punjabis as well.

If people from other ethnicities were killed in Karachi, then please don't forget countless Urdu speaking Karachites were also killed. Therefore, saying that Urdu speaking Karachites are bad because they watched and somehow enjoyed the deaths of Punjabis, Sindhi and other ethinical groups is totally incorrect.

I don't remember the 80s, as I was quite young, but I do remember the 90s in Karachi. I was there till 1997 and it was horrible in Karachi. People were getting killed left and right and no, it wasn't MQM alone killing people. From what I have heard (while residing in Karachi) the governments and other political parties were also invovled in killing Urdu speaking Karachites.

Like Zakk pointed out, it's been tit for tat all along. Therefore laying the blame on one particular group of people (Urdu speaking Karachites) is totally wrong. It goes to show that it may be nothing more than a negative bias against Urdu speaking Karachites that many seem to have.

I, never in my life would've thought that I would have someone accuse Khi-tes for killing Punjabis and celebrating it. It's deplorable.

In addition, the reason I feel Khi-tes side with MQM is only because they know MQM would do a few things for Khi-tes. I remember when MQM was briefly in power in Karachi, roads were being built, there was peace to an extent, and the city for once looked good and a bit clean.

When you have Nawaz Sharif come in power, he works for his province. When Benazir comes into power, she works for her provice and people, barring Khi-tes. Hence, the reason why many Khi-tes are left with no choice, but to vote for MQM. However, I no longer know how good or sincere MQM would be to Karachi if it ever comes into power again, which I'm highly doubtful about.

where are
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Re: When exactly did MQM or Khi-tes killed Punjabis?

muhajirs numbers are minimal in army....not just due to discrimination, but becoz its not a preferred profession for them....punjab vs pathan/baloch wud be 60/40, btw punjabi and pathan/baloch.

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Re: When exactly did MQM or Khi-tes killed Punjabis?

Sadiyah,

why are you spreading hateful romour like an uneducated person ?

try to spread love amoung Pakistanis and not crap

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Re: When exactly did MQM or Khi-tes killed Punjabis?

Exactly.

Muhajir families, prior to partition, generally did not have military traditions in their families, whereas a greater proportion of punjabis and pashtuns did. There was little family support for them to go into the army as a result… it just wasn’t what their families did.

My family were exceptions, having served in the British and prior to that Hyderabadi armies for many generations, and as such my family has many people in the Army, Air Force and Navy.