But this is what Muslims won't do. Jo haath unhein khilaata hai usi pe thookenge, mootenge aur hagenge. Aur fir shikayat bhi karenge ki humein gande haathon se khila rahe hain kyunki hum Mussalman hai. Kaisa insaf hai yeh??
Thats just wrong. Arabs do not need west to clothe, shelter, or provide food for them. For over 1400 years - Arabs have done this and helped many nations with the wealth and knowledge they have. Despite the rape of Iraq and destruction of other Arab Nations by the British and other European Countries, The Arab world continues to lead.
Desi-Ganday-Anday, Did you bother to read the topic....It implies that your ilk is non vioent. Yes you do bash Islam, I never said you are not allowed to post here. Let me put it in a way so you can understand. If you try to bash Islam or its followers (which you did), I will make sure that I kick your hindu behind and show you the door. Now, tell me how does it equate to the example you gave of Denmark? Muslims did not insult christians....it was that a-hole cartoonist who insulted muslims....Shabash take out your ignorant head out of your arse and think it through.
itsme01, I apologize for losing my senses in trying to respond to Kaleem. I don't want to tread that road of intolerance.
True, Muslim empires have safeguarded other religions but the reasons are multiple. You say Hindus were respected in Muslim/Mughal empire. Far from it, except Akbar, every other ruler imposed some form of jizya on Hindus and levied higher land taxes. Further, they were put to many other inconveniences such as abduction of women etc. which is why most of the North Indian Hindus conduct marriage in the night as opposed to South India where stil marriages are held in broad daylight. Also, Muslim rulers could not directly antagonize millions of docile Hindus. True, Hindus were internally disunited and weak in resisting the invaders but they could have overthrown them if there was a serious attempt to forcibly convert Hindus. In other places, Muslims merely followed what Quran states. Ahl-e-Kitab were granted protection simply because Quran asks a Muslim ruler to protect them as dhimmis, not because they loved or tolerated them.
Take the case of Hindu rulers, Shivaji's kingdom had millions of Muslims as well. They were equal citizens in his eyes. Most of his senior generals were Muslims. The Vijayanagar rulers encouraged Muslims to stay on despite being staunchly Hindu. Raja Ranjeet Singh ruled over the Muslims of Punjab and never levied religious tax from them. I could give you more examples. Before 1947, there was never a case when a Hindu kingdom tortured its Muslim citizens. The vice versa case was true in many Muslim kingdoms. Of course I do accept noble Muslim kings like Akbar who treated all equally.
Anyway, we are deviating from the topic. You said Muhammad asked his followers not to paint him. Well, that rule should only apply to Muslim. Why should a non-Muslim follow that rule? If you expect them to follow that, they would only do that out of respect for another religion, not because they accept Islam or are scared of it. Here is where Muslims get confused, they don't want to respect other religions because it gives them the idea that they are indirectly accepting it.
True, Muslim empires have safeguarded other religions but the reasons are multiple. You say Hindus were respected in Muslim/Mughal empire. Far from it, except Akbar, every other ruler imposed some form of jizya on Hindus and levied higher land taxes. Further, they were put to many other inconveniences such as abduction of women etc. which is why most of the North Indian Hindus conduct marriage in the night as opposed to South India where stil marriages are held in broad daylight. Also, Muslim rulers could not directly antagonize millions of docile Hindus. True, Hindus were internally disunited and weak in resisting the invaders but they could have overthrown them if there was a serious attempt to forcibly convert Hindus. In other places, Muslims merely followed what Quran states. Ahl-e-Kitab were granted protection simply because Quran asks a Muslim ruler to protect them as dhimmis, not because they loved or tolerated them.
I cannot comment the part about Rulers after Akbar being Cruel. However Yes, I recall one of them - however his actions were unIslamic and therefore that person cannot be considered a Muslim, and that Islam cannot be blamed for the actions for few deviated people. Similarly, I would not Blame Hinduism for Massacre of Muslims in Gujrat or during the time of Partition.
Islam Tells us to repect not only people of the book but everyone. Thats why Islam is sent to The whole world rather than just one nation.
I can't help admire your passionate love for Arabs. For one, I didn't single out Arabs for anything. I was only talking about the mentality of Muslim immigrants everywhere. You want to narrow down to Arabs, it's not my problem. Secondly, if other nations have succeeded, it's not only because of their business but also because of their welcoming society. An open society that favors merit over medieval religious fraternity. I will take the case of Arabs. Do you not know that Arabs are such racists? They hate subcontinental people like worms or something, EVEN if it is a Muslim. I don't understand why you idolize them so much.
Also, Arab countries are rich because of oil, not because of their social advancement. The day oil runs dry, most Arab countries will become factories of jihad and terror. Even now, countries like Saudi Arabia are grappling with how to control their anti-social elements. Again, we are drifting into a totally different topic.
If you want to understand why I said that Hindi/Urdu thing, remember so many Muslims live in the West, yet they never openly embrace the values and culture of the West. When Muslim countries expect non-Muslim tourists, not even citizens, to observe Muslim rituals like Ramadhan, why can't the West expect its citizens to follow their culture? Kissi aur ke ghar mein ghuske aap apni hi khichdi kab tab pakaogay? Mussalmanon ko shukr manana chahiye ki unhein apni zindagi jeene de rahen hain America aur Europe mein. Nahin to look at Saudi, non-Muslims can't bring their religious books, can't congregate for prayer etc. Tell me isn't the hypocrisy clear at least now?
First of all, I never said anything about Islam being responsible for anything. I was only talking about Muslims. If you want to understand something that I did not state, it is your problem.
Secondly, if your statement that Islam asks Muslims to respect everyone is true, how come you have a word called "kaffir"? Don't tell me it is a respectful term for non-Muslims.
Anyway, we are deviating from the topic.You said Muhammad asked his followers not to paint him. Well, that rule should only apply to Muslim. Why should a non-Muslim follow that rule? If you expect them to follow that, they would only do that out of respect for another religion, not because they accept Islam or are scared of it. Here is where Muslims get confused, they don't want to respect other religions because it gives them the idea that they are indirectly accepting it.
Respect, yes - by those depictions the westerners showed their respect - and yet for 3 long months we Muslims asked them for a simple apology - which they rejected.
I do not know where you got the idea of "Muslims not respecting other religions as it makes them think that they are indirectly accepting it". Thats not true. As I have stated earlier, Islam tells us to Repect every Individual - but if an Individual commits sin (such as murder, rape, robbery, etc), then punish the individual in accordance with the law, regardless of his/her race/religion/colour/language.
And the funniest thing is Muslims want to raise a cry over a silly cartoon. First of all, the person who drew the cartoon doesn't matter at all. He was an idiot and should have been ignored. Kuttay ke bhaunkne se suraj darta nahin hai. In the same way, because some idiot drew a pic of Muhammad, how is he insulted? But 1.5 billions united to protest that single incident.
I say, where is your manhood and virility in opposing real issues? How many of you stood up for Iraq and prevented the US from entering? How many of you are supporting Iran now? How many of you raised your voice against the thousands of Muslims who were butchered in Afghanistan by the US? Pakistan meekly supported the US in the search operations across the border. What about Damadola? Isn't it funny it takes a cartoon for Muslims to wake up but real problems don't force them into action?
Secondly, if your statement that Islam asks Muslims to respect everyone is true, how come you have a word called "kaffir"? Don't tell me it is a respectful term for non-Muslims.
Let me ask you: What do you call a person who does not follow hinduism? well thats what a Kaffir to you would be.
I do not know where you got the idea of "Muslims not respecting other religions as it makes them think that they are indirectly accepting it". Thats not true. As I have stated earlier, Islam tells us to Repect every Individual - but if an Individual commits sin (such as murder, rape, robbery, etc), then punish the individual in accordance with the law, regardless of his/her race/religion/colour/language.
It seriously beats me. Why would you force someone to apologize? Does it really mean anything at all? Tell me, even if the Danish guy apologized, what prevents him thinking dirty about Muhammad? Can you control his mind? Why do Muslims want to be such control freaks? How many mouths can you silence? How many minds can you stop from heresy?
The second paragraph is even more dangerous. Who gives you the right to punish someone outside your jurisdiction? If a person blasphemed in Pakistan, it makes sense to call for his punishment from within Pakistan. Who are you to sentence a person 5,000 miles away? If you think you can punish anyone just like that, it also means you should have the capability to nurture someone 5,000 miles away as well. How many poor people in Somalia or Brazil did Pakistan feed last year? When you don't have the power to save/sustain who/what gives you the power to call for someone's punishment? Muslims are doing everything that's against what you say Quran says. Isn't Allah THE judge? Who are you then to interfere in between??
Also, Arab countries are rich because of oil, not because of their social advancement. The day oil runs dry, most Arab countries will become factories of jihad and terror. Even now, countries like Saudi Arabia are grappling with how to control their anti-social elements. Again, we are drifting into a totally different topic.
If you want to understand why I said that Hindi/Urdu thing, remember so many Muslims live in the West, yet they never openly embrace the values and culture of the West. When Muslim countries expect non-Muslim tourists, not even citizens, to observe Muslim rituals like Ramadhan, why can't the West expect its citizens to follow their culture? Kissi aur ke ghar mein ghuske aap apni hi khichdi kab tab pakaogay? Mussalmanon ko shukr manana chahiye ki unhein apni zindagi jeene de rahen hain America aur Europe mein. Nahin to look at Saudi, non-Muslims can't bring their religious books, can't congregate for prayer etc. Tell me isn't the hypocrisy clear at least now?
Why do I admire Arabs? Well simple - they follow the True Islam.
As far as you saying that Arabs hate people from sub-continent is wrong as well. I have alot of Arabs friends - never heard of this and never felt it.
Correction: We do not ask People to observe during the Month of Ramadan as you implied above.
Once again you are wrong: Non-Muslims, if they want can bring their scriptures and practice their religion at their home.
My dear friend, I would call him a "Ahindu" (in Hindi) which simply means NOT-Hindu. But kaffir means something very bad in Arabic. Remember kufr? That word your sweet mawlawi uncle taught you not to commit? Kufr is sin, and kaffir is a cognate word which would mean sinner. So it is an insult word. Now where is the question of respecting non-Muslims?
Correction: We do not ask People to observe during the Month of Ramadan as you implied above.
Once again you are wrong: Non-Muslims, if they want can bring their scriptures and practice their religion at their home.
It's my mistake if I wasn't clear enough. I was referring to Arab countries, especially Saudi Arabia. In the KSA, no non-Muslim is allowed to bring scriptures, books, idols, media etc. from their religion. All Non-Muslims should also compulsorily fast during Ramadhan. It is a fact. Go and check it up anywhere you want.
You are missing the point here. I give you an analogy as well, but in Urdu as it would sound better:
Gali ka kutta aapko kaat-ta hai, kya aap wapas usse kaatenge? You just ignore it the next time or shoo it away. Agar mukhtalif waqt us kuttey par aap kharchenge? Zindagi mein aur bhi mudde hain sochne ko. Muslims get caught up in such unnecessary controversies and forget what they have to do - helping themselves. Which brings us to the original question - why didn't Hindus react the same way to MoFo Hussain's painting?
Not because they are shameless/spineless.
Because MF Hussain's paintings don't mean anything to them. Hindus don't need to show the world how zealously they respect their religion. Jo bhi izzat karte hai apne maddhab ka dil mein karte hain. Duniya ya Khuda ko dikhane ki zaroorat nahin hai.
There are far bigger and real-life issues to think of, like feeding a poor family etc. unlike a typical Pakistani bearded MMA mullah who doesn't care if his son is on the verge of becoming an Al-Qaedi and spends all day shouting naaray against Bush, while none of those efforts bear any fruit at all.
Now tell me who is the loser in wasting time in such manners?
If someone commits a crime - then that criminal is punished by the victim.
Wrong! If someone commits a crime, then that criminal is punished by the law, not by the victim. No civilized society believes in your logic. What you say might apply only in a Shura or Jirga.
If Iran had started legal action against Rushdie for his writings, I would have wholeheartedly supported it, but nay, like a bunch of angry monkeys, the ayatollahs merely wanted his head dripping with blood. That call not only disgusted the civilized world, but also set them against what was actually in Iran's and Islam's favor. When you want to implement crude justice, no one will respect you. Will you burn your child's hand only because he stole candy from the jar?
In the eyes of the state, every citizen including criminals are its children. You cannot punish them in barbaric ways, which is why all the countries are slowly phasing out death sentence.
itsme01, you are wrong. saudis are very much against non muslims. Absolutely no religious freedom for non muslims.
Been There.
Done That.
Got the scars.
and actually have the Tshirt as well.
first time i went there they thought i was non muslim due to a tattoo on my arm. and boy did they treat me right at the airport. yeah, literally they were throwing books out of my bags asking me is it a bible? or some other religious book.
they wanted to see if i was wearing a cross under my shirt. now that really got me pissed off, reason even if somebody is wearing it, (which is not showing out to anyone) how it hurt their religious feelings? or rather is it just religious descrimination.
coming back to the topic yes you forced to fast because all the restuarants are closed and if you don't cook at home you cant eat anywhere.
yes you are forced to stay off the streets during prayer times because you have these old farts who can't find any job, and what they do is roam the streets at prayer time and beat the young men on streets to go to prayer, they don't even care if the person is muslim or non muslim.
Can anybody who is living in KSA let me know if things have changed now?
db, I understand your concerns, and they are logical. But YOU CANNOT HIT everyone with the same stick.
Whats the bigger problem on your hand?
About Saudi: Saudi Arabia is an Islamic practicing country. And it is their choice to allow or not. Pakistan is an Islamnic practicing country too, and it allows non-muslims living there.
Its in your roots. You guys don't like muslims and face it.
Point taken, and I can very well apply that to you.
