WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

[NomiCA]

Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

First of all...what is ghey?

Secondly...judging from your location...you're coming from a family that practices each and every bit of the above mentioned EVIL actions. What do you have to say about that?

Apne giray baan mein jhankna seekhein.

Stop being so angry..and personal.....did i say anything personal to you ever??

Yes some of these are done in my family......and yes I DO HATE ALL THESE......but i can't control everything that happens around me..

[rizla86]

Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

@Reha

You know what Nadz. Im a little bit tired of this BS now…every year around Christmas…its the SAME OLD stuff.

We dont put up an X-Mas tree but I might do one next year. I see nothing wrong with it. You know why? Because its Quid-e-Azam’s birthday, thats why.

Because as Pakistanis…we dont seem to have an issue with getting down and partying when it comes to a mehndi or spending a million dollars on a wedding or whatnot. Guess what? They’re not Islamic either. THEY’RE CULTURAL ADAPTATIONS FROM ANOTHER RELIGION AND CULTURE. Where in Islam is a bride supposed to wear a red outfit, a natt, jhoomer, tika, her weight in gold and take a furniture set with her? A Pakistani putting up a Christmas tree is the same as a Pakistani wearing a natt on her wedding. A cultural adaptation. A tree. A damn tree is what people have an issue with.

People dont seem to have an issue with mayun, mehndi, jahaiz, bribery (which is Pakistani culture now), etc. But we’ve got an issue with a stupid tree.

And we wonder why we’re soooo badnaam.

[Reha]

Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

Stop being so angry..and personal.....did i say anything personal to you ever??

Yes some of these are done in my family......and yes I DO HATE ALL THESE......but i can't control everything that happens around me..

A - Im not angry at all. I think it can come off that way because my posts are a bit direct. So, for the future...point noted.

B - Im asking you what you have to say about this because you addressed my post. I addressed yours back. If I answer you back, its not an attack. I dont take your approach to marriage or women personally, so please dont be offended by my approach.

[NomiCA]

Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

@Reha

A - Im not angry at all. I think it can come off that way because my posts are a bit direct. So, for the future…point noted.

B - Im asking you what you have to say about this because you addressed my post. I addressed yours back. If I answer you back, its not an attack. I dont take your approach to marriage or women personally, so please dont be offended by my approach.

well asking me back definitely woudn’t be an attack…but when you add your little ‘direct’ remarks like this one..it SEEMS personal…

@Reha

Apne giray baan mein jhankna seekhein.

you concluded, even before my reply, that i do not ‘jhaank in my giray baan’ and i am being a hypocrite…that somehow you are entitled to lecture me on ‘giraybaan jhaanking’ I can make a 100 comments like these too and then say ’ i am not being personal’.

because frankly this ‘direct’ approach of yours causes the threads to look like a bickering contest…so my honest suggestion to you is to try hard and discuss and comment on the topic/content of post and NOT THE PERSON…

Here is a little excerpt from wikipedia..i hope you do take the feedback as it is…

Ad hominem

Ad hominem abuse

Ad hominem abuse (also called personal abuse or personal attacks) usually involves insulting or belittling one’s opponent in order to invalidate his or her argument, but can also involve pointing out factual but ostensible character flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent’s argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent’s personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent’s arguments or assertions.
Examples:

• “You can’t believe Jack when he says the proposed policy would help the economy. He doesn’t even have a job.”
• “Candidate Jane’s proposal about zoning is ridiculous. She was caught cheating on her taxes in 2003.”

and on your ‘addressed post’…i was merely pointing out the fact that ‘those hindu culture adaptations are as bad/good as the christmas tree’…and that if a person is against the tree then he/she should also be against these ‘adaptations’…which i am.

[Reha]

Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

well asking me back definitely woudn't be an attack...but when you add your little 'direct' remarks like this one..it SEEMS personal........ you concluded, even before my reply, that i do not 'jhaank in my giray baan' and i am being a hypocrite.....that somehow you are entitled to lecture me on 'giraybaan jhaanking' I can make a 100 comments like these too and then say ' i am not being personal'.

Is it that offensive to people when asked to look at their own actions and what is going on in their own homes? If you do jhaank in your giraybaan...then no need to be nettled.

because frankly this 'direct' approach of yours causes the threads to look like a bickering contest.....so my honest suggestion to you is to try hard and discuss and comment on the topic/content of post and NOT THE PERSON...

A discussion is a two way street...when people reply to your posts...its not an attack. You cannot talk to yourself in a conversation. Thats all I will say about this.

and on your 'addressed post'........i was merely pointing out the fact that 'those hindu culture adaptations are as bad/good as the christmas tree'......and that if a person is against the tree then he/she should also be against these 'adaptations'....which i am.

If you've felt **belittled **by me, I apologize.

And if you're against Christmas trees...then it makes sense to be against our Indian/Hindu influenced culture as well.

[goddamniamsoawesome]

Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

I suppose people for/against Christmas trees should look at the 'traditions' they are for/against and see if they conflict with their own faith. Might bring a lot of things into perspective.

[system]

Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

@Reha

Agreed.

Why do desies wear jeans, skirts, shirts or eat at McDonald’s? Dont they understand its western culture and eating spaghetti is symbolic to the British Occupation? I swear, every time I leave the house, I see desies ONLY in pants and shirts…some even go so far as to wear dresses! :o

I dont get what is so wrong with wearing kurta shalwar and eating roti achaar at work?

I swear, stupid desies…

One must understand the difference between dietary concerns and adopting a foreign culture as it was their own. One is reflective of ones personal identity and one is reflective of fashion tastes. Just like desis to take an existential issue and consider it a matter for roti and achar.

[Mirch]

Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

If we believe whole heartedly that Jesus(AS) was a prophet of Islam , then celebrating his birth in any shape and form should not be considered shirk. If we determine that celebrating any body's birthday is shirk then it is a whole new issue.

[hareem01]

Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

I like christmas tree but I don't have one in my house and I don't know why I should put up one? Though, my kids watch classic cartoons of Snowman and Santa Clause every year and I read to them Narnia and Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens. I think we should know about Western culture so we can live in peace and get along with each other and also because my children are Western(so there's nothing wrong with being Western) and they should know their culture, we don't really need to indulge in each and everything they do, for example, drinking and premarital sex as well as religious things associated with Christianity to maintain our Islamic identity.

[rizla86]

Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

@Mirch

If we believe whole heartedly that Jesus(AS) was a prophet of Islam , then celebrating his birth in any shape and form should not be considered shirk. If we determine that celebrating any body's birthday is shirk then it is a whole new issue.

to be honest celebrating birthdays is not exactly an Islamic concept either, whether its Jesus (pbuh) or the Holy Prophet (pbuh).

[hareem01]

Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

to be honest celebrating birthdays is not exactly an Islamic concept either, whether its Jesus (pbuh) or the Holy Prophet (pbuh).

That's not true.

[Mirch]

Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

to be honest celebrating birthdays is not exactly an Islamic concept either, whether its Jesus (pbuh) or the Holy Prophet (pbuh).

Your fatwa lacks sufficient evidence . Would you please quote some authentic Islamic resources to support your claim.
Remember I did not give any fatwa. I just posed a couple of question , but you have issued a fatwa(religious opinion) in reply to my questions so onus is on you to prove what you are saying.

[rizla86]

Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

Your fatwa lacks sufficient evidence . Would you please quote some authentic Islamic resources to support your claim. Remember I did not give any fatwa. I just posed a couple of question , but you have issued a fatwa(religious opinion) in reply to my questions so onus is on you to prove what you are saying.

Did I just say that celebrating a birthday is haraam? Because that would be a fatwa. It is just another cultural adaptation, that's all. To attach any religious significance with a birthday celebration is what's wrong.

[Mirch]

Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

Did I just say that celebrating a birthday is haraam? Because that would be a fatwa. It is just another cultural adaptation, that's all. To attach any religious significance with a birthday celebration is what's wrong.

You said celebrating birthdays is not a Islamic concept. It is passing fatwa( religious opinion) . Now you need to prove how it is not an Islamic concept.

[rizla86]

Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

You said celebrating birthdays is not a Islamic concept. It is passing fatwa( religious opinion) . Now you need to prove how it is not an Islamic concept.

Yes it isn't an Islamic concept, because I've never come across a hadith or Quranic verse that says celebrate birthdays. It is a completely a cultural thing. I don't understand why you consider this a fatwa. It's not an opinion it is a fact, Islam says nothing about celebrating birthdays, you can celebrate your birthday to reflect upon your year in general and how you can improve yourself etc., if you want to cut a cake then do it by all means, nothing in Islam stops you, that is just cultural. But you shouldn't attach religious connotations to birthdays like the celebrating of 12 Rabi-ul-Awal which some people in Pakistan actually consider to be the third Eid in which case it starts bordering on Bidaah.

[Mirch]

Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

@rizla86

Yes it isn’t an Islamic concept, because I’ve never come across a hadith or Quranic verse that says celebrate birthdays. It is a completely a cultural thing. I don’t understand why you consider this a fatwa. It’s not an opinion it is a fact, Islam says nothing about celebrating birthdays, you can celebrate your birthday to reflect upon your year in general and how you can improve yourself etc., if you want to cut a cake then do it by all means, nothing in Islam stops you, that is just cultural. But you shouldn’t attach religious connotations to birthdays like the celebrating of 12 Rabi-ul-Awal which some people in Pakistan actually consider to be the third Eid in which case it starts bordering on Bidaah.

I fail to understand your logic. Celebrating birthday of a common man/woman is fine , but celebrating birthday of best of the human beings that is Holy Prophets(PBUT) is wrong. How come ? How old are you ?

[Dil_Pakistan]

Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

^ If the 86 in rizla86 stands for the date of birth then he/she is 24

[rizla86]

Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

@Mirch

I fail to understand your logic. Celebrating birthday of a common man/woman is fine , but celebrating birthday of best of the human beings that is Holy Prophets(PBUT) is wrong. How come ? How old are you ?

I didn’t mean to imply that. Of course you can celebrate the Holy Prophet’s birthday, you can observe the day as a day of remembrance, reflect upon the Holy Prophets (pbuh) teachings. But to make it annual festival, calling it an Eid and holding processions that disrupt traffic, that isn’t really what Islam tells us to do. This did not happen during the Prophet’s time nor after him in the caliphate.

[Mirch]

Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

I didn't mean to imply that. Of course you can celebrate the Holy Prophet's birthday, you can observe the day as a day of remembrance, reflect upon the Holy Prophets (pbuh) teachings. But to make it annual festival, calling it an Eid and holding processions that disrupt traffic, that isn't really what Islam tells us to do. This did not happen during the Prophet's time nor after him in the caliphate.

Fair enough. But some people go overboard to perform their Haj. Like they travel to Makkah by plain not by camel as it was the tradition and only means of transportation available in those days. It does not make their Haj invalid. People can show their love for their holy prophets in whatever ways they think are appropriate for them. I do not mean to imply that they can drink alcohol in honor and celebration of birth of Holy Prophets(PBUT).

[CE]

Re: WHATS wrong with a christmas tree?

There is alot wrong with the comments in this thread. Though I agree Children should be made aware of other religions and we should respect others and their beliefs, but as Muslims we should not be celebrating Christmas. People who celebrate Christmas are accepting that Jesus was born on the 25th and is the son of God. Although I agree theres wrong in celebrating a mehndi or partying etc but its not as bad as accepting Jesus was the son of God

I didnt think there was nothing wrong with celebrating Christmas in the past and I have taken part in the celebrations but over the past year my views have changed. As a Muslim It is Haram to celebrate Christmas, Trying to justify a Chritmas tree by comparing one shirk to another doesn't make it right.