Well…don’t be that sure. It happens all the time. Someone just sent me an e-mail where on some auction site a 18 yr old girl has her viriginity on sale…unfortunately the highest bid so for is only $1500…you can’t even buy a Yugo in that..not a brand new anyway…may be a 18 yr old
Seriously, This is true that men don;t brag about their women’s bodies or anything to with sexual nature in front of other men. Yes they praise their cooking skills, their household managing skills etc…particularly how nice kis they have raised but never their bodies. Thats does not happen.
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Originally posted by Muni:
**Umer, my dear friend, you seem to assume that every woman has not been previously married. What if a woman hasn't had premaritial sex but is no longer a virgin bcuz of a previous marriage.
The response above make me think that most men would somehow feel that a "virgin" is better than a previously married woman, just because of her virginity.
So guys, if 2 women were exactly alike in everything (total clones) but one was married before and the other wasn't , which one would you prefer?
[This message has been edited by Muni (edited June 21, 2001).]**
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There are a lot of narrations ascribed to the Prophet(PBUH) where he says that in such a case a person should choose a virgin instead of a matron. The reasoning behind this I do not no.
Besides I would agree with Umer, as I assume (like him) that the question is concerning women not previously married.
~Survival of the smartest~
[This message has been edited by aMiGo (edited June 21, 2001).]
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Originally posted by ChannMahi: Virginity is over rated anyway.
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Darn right!
If my son comes to me in 20 years time and tells me about two women, out of whom he plans to marry one, and one of them has all the good qualities but is a widow or a divorcee and the other has nothing but virginity going for her... I don't think I will have much of a problem in advising him which way to go. This might not be so simple, if the former had willing pre-marital affairs.
Re: whether men talk about their wives sexual performance, there is a separate thread going on for that started by Shirin.
On the other note [This is totally irrelevant to the topic being discussed here], in a recent survey many women complained that their husbands don't compliment them enough. So husbands genuinely complimenting their wives on cooking skills, or child-rearing skills or whatever should be appreciated. All of us, man and woman alike, can do with more encouragement and honest praise. Don't be kanjoos. :)
I think the issue has much more to it than just 'fairness'. Its about perceptions in the society and the attitudes we are brought up with. We can change them if we want to. And we can analysze the rationale behind those.
At the end of the day, it will be the actual circumstances of the case, which will determine which way we go or give someone advice. General theories which sound great, many a times fail us in the face of reality.
If a girl had pre-marital sex willingly, then many of the muslim guys, if they know about it, might not agree to marry her. This will be for two reasons. (1) Islam forbids willing pre-marital sex ...
Right, and that's one of the major factors that a woman with such a past is stigmatized as having bad character for rest of her life.
Fact of the matter is that no one abides by his/her religion to the fullest from one doctrine to the other. While it is understandable that for some people some values (which could be any) are uncompromiseable, disounting a person for any marital prospective right of the bat without even knowing her as a person well shows chauvinistic behaviour hidden behind religion because it's so convenient. No saying against the religion, right?
When it comes to premarital relationship, everbody gets to be a good muslim all of sudden. Why is that?
... (2) The psychological feeling embedded by the parents and elders that the girl/guy who had affairs before marriage may also end up having affairs afterwards and thus is untrust-worthy.
Right again, that's your second major factor for stigmatization. So either way, a woman is doomed if she 'makes a mistake'.
Question is, is what a woman has done in her past in relation to her involvement with another man really anybody's business if he finds her to be desireable and can trust her to be a good wife and person? Or he's simply gonna discount anything good that that woman possesses based on a religious stance that all of a sudden makes sense to him?
Yes, we all understand that pre-marital sex is forbidden in Islam but lets talk about the double standards in our desi culture. Our desi society condones pre-marital sex for men regardless of Islamic standards. There are a lot of desi guys who believe that it’s ok for them to sleep around I remember meeting a guy once who said “I’m a 26 year old guy, you don’t expect me to be a virgin , do you?” But at the same time, the girl’s virginity was very important for him. Why is that? Why would a vigin want him and why should she put up with it, if he wouldn’t accept that from a girl?
To be honest, I think us desi guys are insecure. We feel that if we marry a virgin that has never been in a relationship, she’s more likely to put up with our inadequacies, instead of moving onto someone else.
Perhaps it’s true, I really don’t know. All I know is that sometimes, virginity isn’t the be-all and end-all of a sucessful marriage.
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Originally posted by Roman: Right, and that's one of the major factors that a woman with such a past is stigmatized as having bad character for rest of her life.
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You are right. In some families they will be "stagmatized", but then they opted for it, and made a choice of having affairs. They may claim it was a mistake; or they may say that is their right. Either way it is their choice and they have to live with it. There are many families and many guys who have no problem marrying a 'society butterfly' (so to speak). There is no shortage of men. The girl may find a truly outstanding gentleman. They both fall in love with each other and live a glorious life. Five years down the road, who the hell cares if the girl had 20 affairs before she was 18 years old.
Conversely, it is not a problem limited to girls only. Guys, who have tendencies to engage in affairs and are flirtious can also be stagmatized. This depends on family values. Every one has different experiences and I can only know what I have seen.
I have seen that if there is a reputation of loose character, even for guys, the rishta-karanay walay elders, in my family, won't touch that case. That doesn't mean those guys or girls won't get married. Its just that they won't find help in some families. Everyone carries their own set of morality, right or wrong.
So, in a sense, if we choose to call it "stigma", fine... but that is a direct result of the choices made by the girl or the guy. Everyone can make a mistake but then they have to learn to live with it and deal with it. How ppl behave around you due to your mistakes is entirely their choice, which we can't influence.
On the other hand, divorcees and widows may have other problems (divorcees especially) but if loose character is not one of them, then losing virginity is not usually the issue in marrying them off. Ofcourse some mothers will want their sons to have a text-book like marriage with a girl of same status, hoor-pari, who is marrying the first time and all the bells and whistles... well, some get their dream, others don't. Virginity is not the end-all and be-all (as Pilot said) and there are many factors involved in such life-changing decisions.
Here is my simple take on this topic. I think we should pick someone we want to marry based on many factors including, looks (maybe), personality, motivation in life, open mindedness, soul mate etc....
Maybe guys prefer virgin women (girls) because it gives them some false sense of security. Being a guy, I think one should not look at this as a big issue.
I think most muslim men are still in the dark ages and especially those who are less open or unwilling to accept that Islam is the most flexible of all religions and is the only one that truly adapts itself with the changing times. Unfortunately most people seem to be unable to comprehend this.
Of course I was talking about women, who were not married before.
The virginity itself is not important to me. It’s just that when I adhere to the rule, I’d say I have the right to expect that from her too. I know she can’t “show the stained bedsheet” (quouting Anchal
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Originally posted by Muzna: Yeah.....Peacemaker, what **are you rolling your eyes about?
I wanna know too.
**
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Over Anchal preferring a "experienced" man over a virgin. I to dont actually understand what Anchal is trying to say. What message she is trying to convey?
Btw Allah is not biased. He is alwayz just and right. The almighty All knowing.
And may I bring to your attention also that the Quran says the good men will get good women, and bad women will get bad men. I blindly beleive that.
I didn't have time to read other peoples post but I think the man wants virgin woman because he is scared of critism. An experience woman will criticise him and he cant take that.
BTW Roman, I understand why are u asking this question. Let me tell you one thing ... there is no difference between a virgin or a non-virgin woman. Same there is no difference between a virgin or a non-virgin man.
I would suggest dont think about these things when u are getting married because these are not the most important part of the relationship & if you are virgin (I take it as you are not married) then keep yourself clean, follow the religion.
As Umer said, I think if a man is keeping himself clean deserves a clean woman. So a woman deserves a clean man if she keeps herself clean.
I will say it in easy plain english
perhaps tht would be easier to understand
If I am in the market looking for a man, I would prefer a experienced one over a virgin
plus how in the world is a woman to know if the man is a virgin or not
just because he says so?
Plus this BS bout ppl feeling inscure in a relationship because of their partner's previous relationships and fretting over it
Bull
There is no relationship if ppl doubt their partner's honesty and commitment
just because of previous relationships
either you trust em or you dont trust em
simple
this insecurity means you really dont have a relationship
[This message has been edited by Anchal (edited June 22, 2001).]
If I am in the market looking for a man, I would prefer a experienced one over a virgin
Experience can be gained in various ways. In sexual mannerism, experience is not really a big deal. Its natural. What you don't know, you learn. And maybe its more fun to learn together. Who needs a teacher all the time, especially in bed!
ps. By experienced, I hope u mean a divorcee or a widower. I'd hate to think that you'd actually prefer a guy who has been sleeping around a lot. If nothing else, he can give you AIDS.