Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)
LI, you appear equally confused. Why does it concern you that people are choosing to live their lives according to a guidance that they **believe** is devine. Surely that shouldnt make or break your day.
I have highlighted believe - as that is what this debate is concerning, our personal faith and the limits thereof. There are many things that are and yet cannot be quantified in solid hard facts in the manner that you desire. And yet that is beyond the point.
In the spirit of sidetracked pedanticity however:
Your assertion that these African Tribespeople are "Good" is hardly documented in numbers, figures or graphs. It makes for a weak argument my friend. The very fact that you choose to devote so much time to this also raises further questions about how reconciled your own beliefs are with your God.
Here is an interesting rhetorical question. When preaching, who is the audience and who the preacher? i.e. What are you trying to proove and to whom.
Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)
hitchki,
Please save the rhetoric, there is just plenty of it and it's getting boring. You don't have facts (just like abdullah k) to back up his version of the truth. Why don't you provide facts, figures and graphs that divine broadband communication with a select few individuals in humanity actually did helped the world than not. Pretty please with sugar on top. Thanks.
Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)
^
Non starter. I can't provide facts or figures to proove my dearly departed dad was a great man...so I reackon he must have been a real ass, or perhaps useless at best....gee...you're a real ray of sunshine...just what are emperical measures of greatness, anyway?
Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)
Go Hitchki :k:
Although LI does have a point about primitive tribes, essentially they also have some sort of belief in some type of God, and that defines their morals, values and principles. The essence of this belief is common in all human beings regardless of where they are, their cultural/social background and it’s called fitrah - the inherent and inborn belief that there is a creator, that we should worship, and will eventually return to.
Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)
picoico,
Right. Also, what quantifiable proofs do people have (like AbdullahK) that divine broadband satellite broadband communication with a select few individuals in humanity:
- actually did take place
- improved humanity
I don't blame AbdullahK, he is parroting what he's heard and there are MANY more like him who present twisted arguments and fall over themselves to prove this and that. Please, provide something more than folklore. Thanks.
Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)
LI what do you mean by "improvement" in humanity. Technological development, better health, more money? If you were more specific people might have an easier time of it, you cant expect scientific answers to vague questions.
Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)
LI,
Any fool can construct a series of questions to challenge a definitive statement. Now try answering a question for a change: just what are the empirical measures of greatness?
Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)
to make sense of our existence and I can accept that. But schizophernic rhetoric that 'but master ji creature doesn't need anything but is also master of retribution OR creaturs is merciful but will judge you and then punish you' is just is utter nonsense.
Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)
Every civilization has a default answer to certain questions, situation and results like what happens after we die afterlife, God and concept of “good and evil”. Most of these indigenous societies find incomprehensible to question it. If we were told from the start that Santa is real, think what would have happened?
Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)
Bare with me whilst I try to make sense of this so-very-interesting, yet grammatically slaughtered “rhetoric” (which on closer inspection appears to be as redundant as “his”).
I am not arguing anything - merely questioning the reason for this two page banter. It is interesting to note that you have neither pictograph nor pie chart to validate that feverishly wrong assumption. However as my questions appear unanswered and the gaping craters in your argument remain unfilled .. an acutely apt summation (even if I do say so my very humble self) would involve something similar to insecure-ity in its title but far be it from me to suggest such a thing.
But I will introduce a small phrase of “Game, Set and Match” into this sporting arena.
Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)
Any fool can construct a series of questions to challenge a definitive statement. Now try answering a question for a change: just what are the empirical measures of greatness?
why don't you define it and then answer MY questions above. Any fool can come up and tell me how great the creator is, merciful and a strict jail warden but nobody has any emprical measures, facts to back it up.
Oh and please don't forget about the divine broadband sattellite communication that a handful of individuals have had and claim to have the truth striaght from the creator. Please prove that it happened and not some mental disease. Thanks.
Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)
I am not arguing anything - merely questioning the reason for this two page banter. It is interesting to note that you have neither pictograph nor pie chart to validate that feverishly wrong assumption.
Right, well, someone from the allah-miaN team also answer my questions. Thanks.
Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)
in regards to what?
That the "creator" actually communicated with the select few via divine broadband?
That the "creator" imparted a message that was supposed to be "good" for humanity? If you follow, prizes in the afterlife. If you don't follow, chitrole?
Indigenous civilizations who don't claim divine data packets were inferior in their wisdom to the way of the lord?
Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)
To be honest I havent really read all of your debate with Abdullah, so I dont know whether the entire discussion has been based on a back and forth on vague terms. If that is the case, the sooner you end the discussion the better, I can tell you the end after fifteen pages would be the same.
Aside from this discussion though, what “improvement” do you expect from a religion/philosophy/way of life, once you tell me what specific aspects of life you want to see improvement in I want to know why do you expect religion to bring it?
I dont think religion is always a vehicle for improvement in any given aspect of the overall quality of life (except spirituality ofcourse), there may be incidental appreciation or depreciation in it, but that isnt really the goal.
Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)
What is it that religion peddlers are peddling?
72 virgins in the afterlife.
Improved variety in sexual partner in the afterlife, yes, let’s provide some quantifiable information about that. Thanks.
While at it: please provide proof of the after life. Also evidence that “judgment” will take place. Also, define what’s “judgement” cuz a lot of religion peddlers frighten simpletons into doing “good” deeds. Also, define “good” deeds. Thanks.
Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)
come on, your shirking the questions. surely theres more to your POV than bluster?
it is a fair point to ask for quantifiable proof for anything a given religion claims that can be quantified. but even assuming that Islam promised 72 virgins to everyone in the afterlife, why take something unverifiable as the litmus test?
Is that the biggest logical beef you have with the faith? anything promised for the afterlife is by definition unverifiable here. that has nothing to do with the argument you were previously making about "verifiable improvement in humanity"
Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)
[quote]
While at it: please provide proof of the after life. Also evidence that "judgment" will take place. Also, define what's "judgement" cuz a lot of religion peddlers frighten simpletons into doing "good" deeds. Also, define "good" deeds. Thanks.
[/quote]
What is the connection of this and the 72 virgins with the "improvement of human life" debate. Should we consider that matter dropped and irrelevant?
