What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)

@ume-zafeerah

There is a very thin line between saazaa and aazmaaish, if struggles are hard for u and u are saying it is enough or u are shaken then its saazaa and if u are leaning toward ALLAH then it is aazmaish.ALLAH will definately test us if we want jannah so be prepare for it.
.

When you face an obstacle then you have a fork in the road, whether you persevere or you stray, and whether either of those is temporary or permanent.

[picoico]

Re: What will it take to strengthen your belief in God?

@LuxuryItem

What's wrong with that? The entire world is drawing all sorts of inspriation, ideas of romance, love, health, truth and god knows what else from the entertainment media. Haven't you seen Iron Chef?

Osama saw Rambo III...and we all know how that turned out.

[picoico]

Re: What will it take to strengthen your belief in God?

@shweetdreamz

I dont subscribe to the "oh they didnt believe so God wiped out their nation..." stories. I personally dont believe that God works like that. its definitely beyond MY comprehension as to how God works but i do know for sure just by looking around that its not as black and white as many scriptures point it out to be. life is not fair. period. I guess then for every period and for every school of thought the idea of God MUST essentially differ. and thats perfectly ok.

^
Isn't that dangerously close to having a "designer" God? I mean...we can also take a binary view on God's nature...we either know or don't...if we don't...then we can't say anything about God...if we do, then we're inclinded to take the black and white stance on faith...

So if we don't know God through some external source...do we just make it up?

[shweetdreamz]

Re: What will it take to strengthen your belief in God?

@Fraudz

This sounds good on paper, but when you live your life to the best of your ability, try to do good, and stay away from bad, and circumstances lead to to a situation where you are holding your dying son in your arms, knowing fully that no human capability can save him, and you know that right after that you have to be ready to say hello and goodbye to your daughter...while your wife's life is hanging in the balance.... you may not have the luxury of logically beating away doubts like "what god would allow this to happen" and grievances like " why me, why not the ones who are going around doing everything you said not to do"

But then by your token, that is pretty pathetic..right?

please dont put any words in my mouth. i just stated my view. no way it is an attack on anyone or making fun of them. thanks.

[muali]

Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)

i've had issues with my belief
but i choose not to say anything about GOD anymore.......i'm just living day to day life

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: What will it take to strengthen your belief in God?

@shweetdreamz

please dont put any words in my mouth. i just stated my view. no way it is an attack on anyone or making fun of them. thanks.

I am not considering it an attack on myself or making fun of anyone.

I am stating this to show that your view is too hypothetical and not realistic. When it is compared against real life situations that people face, it does not work.

heck, Allah even revelaed surah kausar after the prophet grieved for his son’s death.

Thanks

[RoCKiSTaN]

Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)

It's something like a donut said the chinese mother of my korean friend.

[shweetdreamz]

Re: What will it take to strengthen your belief in God?

@picoico

So if we don't know God through some external source...do we just make it up?

even religious scriptures try and define God's attributes but in my opinion it complicates things because it leaves room for alot of manipulation. the idea of God has existed in many societies and it has always reflected that particular society's bias, language, collective IQ :Dand history. im just saying dont say your way is the ONLY right way
maybe belief in a higher being comes from the human's need to find an explanation for the unknown or that which they do not understand. it takes different forms with different times. God is kind and cool for some, angry for others, indifferent for some and just for others.

[Fayz]

Re: What will it take to strengthen your belief in God?

@shweetdreamz

. im just saying dont say your way is the ONLY right way.

That doesn't work for a muslim. If you leave room for other possibilities then your belief system becomes a theory not a belief.

[Abdullah_k]

Re: What will it take to strengthen your belief in God?

@LuxuryItem

That’s just plain silly.

Setting examples and giving super-gifts to chosen few is useless when all of them are meeting the same end and embracing the “Most compassionate and merciful”.

These were chosen because of their supreme character and devotion. All meeting the “same end” is also a deceptive fantasy. Just as two bodies of water; salt and sweet cannot be the same, similarly, believers and non-believers will be dealt differently, and each individual will be awarded according to his/her conduct.

@LuxuryItem

Truth be told none of these men contributed much to society, they were revered by a single tribe whose folklore found it’s way to Arabia.

Now, the basis of your argument is nothing but flimsy. Can you provide a single event or argument to support your point, and how do you think these were folklores. I need facts and not some brain farts and feeble inventions.

@LuxuryItem

There are far better people in today’s world who are neither given a hotline with the lord, nor do they claim membership to psychic friends network and their service to their fellow men is exemplary. Oh yes, and they were tested too.

When you say far better people, I would like to know in what sense, and how is their service to humanity is “FAR BETTER”, than the Prophets. Come up with some solid arguments, regarding any individual you can think of. Only talk doesn’t give your point much of credence

What lies in anyone’s heart, and the degree of conduct is only to be judged by the Creator alon. No one can claim their eternal destination in the heirafter - not even the Prophets.

[Abdullah_k]

Re: What will it take to strengthen your belief in God?

@LuxuryItem

You keep contradicting yourself. WE are doing no better or worse than the civilization without “guidance”. Come to think of it, the “guidance” has removed all rational thought and reason from daily lives of many people.

The guidance has been universal throughout; revealed to different civilizations in different times. However, there’s also the other component to revelation. It’s acceptance.

There had been hardly a case in history, when an entire civilization accepted revelation in its entirety. It has always been the individuals, that were and are rightly guided.

Blaming short comings of individuals on scripture is by no mean the fault of the scripture. It’s all about the effort an individual makes to revolve his/her conduct around what’s revealed. The degree and level of acceptance and submission, brings the light of guidance. But, at the end, the guidance does not come by the choice of an individual. The guidance is only in the hands of the Creator. And He bestows guidance only on whom He wills.

@LuxuryItem

Only a ‘rockstar’ would need people to be constantly “thankful, content, and praise Him in the highest honors to get closer to Him.” rockstars are very insecure people.

I have already answered this point in detail. The Creator is in no way need of anything what so ever. The creations are in forever need of the bounty and mercy from the Creator. It’s simple: remember your Creator and He will remember you, you can let go of Him, and He will let go of you. He has given you the limited free will to decide what’s best for you. Although, He has left nothing for doubtfulness. He has laid out criterion as to how a Believer should lead/his her life. Not only He is the most Merciful and Most compassionate, but He is also the Lord of retribution. The choice is individual’s as to how one will or will not strive to be closer to his Lord OR make effort to displease his Creator or simply live in confused state padded with doubts.

@LuxuryItem

But you just said he is the most merciful and compassionate so why all the conditions. Yaar, you don’t know what you are talking about, do you? Flowery language alone will not save your argument.

Why not state the arguments on facts, instead of getting personal. If you deny the criterion set out by God, then provide with solid counter arguments, to support your beliefs.

[cat-woman]

Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)

This is a really important topic, and a great question. Our Iman needs constant nourishment, I don't think anyone ever has a stable level of Iman. More later.

[Gamma_Dilation]

Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)

^ thanks for that wonderful insight … retard

[UZ]

Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)

@Fraudz

When you face an obstacle then you have a fork in the road, whether you persevere or you stray, and whether either of those is temporary or permanent.

and when you lean towards ALLAH by praying u are successor.
Imagiine the time of ghazwa-e-badar when son was killing his father or father was suppose to kill his mushriq son, i think so we cannot handle that but muslims did that and they were great.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)

yep, in my view the best and the worst mulims were present in that era. I dont know if I can handle that or not,although ther eare examples of divided families fighting on different sides in war whether for ideology, land, power or whatever.

btw it was not just the muslims who were killing their relatives if they were on the other side in the war, but the kuffar were doign it as well, I guess they too had strong faith in their deities or tribe or whatever.

[cat-woman]

Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)

Gamma, I is shocked!

I always had a strong faith in Allah, and moreso as a teen, whenever I was faced with a trial, it made my faith stronger and somehow my duas were always eventually answered.

This past year however, has been particularly trying for me, and at often times I was like, Allah are you serious, this cant be happening ... my namaaz became irregular, and if I prayed I pray like a zombie. However, I know deep in my heart its wrong, and we should always strive to increase our faith, because its essentially the shaitan that brings about despair and anguish. Iman = inner strength, and without faith we might as well give up on life.

[LuxuryItem]

Re: What will it take to strengthen your belief in God?

@Abdullah k

These were chosen because of their supreme character and devotion. All meeting the "same end" is also a deceptive fantasy. Just as two bodies of water; salt and sweet cannot be the same, similarly, believers and non-believers will be dealt differently, and each individual will be awarded according to his/her conduct.

Provide proof, facts about their "supreme character" and not folklore references. Hey, you are the one bringing up hotlines with the almighty and membership of the psychic friends' network for these people, so pray tell what's your proof that actually all that is true.

[quote]

Now, the basis of your argument is nothing but flimsy. Can you provide a single event or argument to support your point, and how do you think these were folklores. I need facts and not some brain farts and feeble inventions.
[/quote]

Now now, don't get angry. You should be the last person talking about brain farts and feeble inventions when you were twisting your story like a pretzel.

[quote]

When you say far better people, I would like to know in what sense, and how is their service to humanity is "FAR BETTER", than the Prophets. Come up with some solid arguments, regarding any individual you can think of. Only talk doesn't give your point much of credence
[/quote]

Provide facts that the people you cited (Hazraat this and that) actually made humanity better by their teachings. No, no quotes from folklore but actuall hard facts.

[quote]

What lies in anyone's heart, and the degree of conduct is only to be judged by the Creator alon. No one can claim their eternal destination in the heirafter - not even the Prophets.
[/quote]

But you just said that the Creator is most merciful now the threats of harsh judgement? You sound very confused, make your mind first.

[LuxuryItem]

Re: What will it take to strengthen your belief in God?

@Abdullah k

The guidance has been universal throughout; revealed to different civilizations in different times. However, there’s also the other component to revelation. It’s acceptance.

Tribes in Africa and Amazon who don’t wear a stitch of clothing don’t claim such beam-me-down-scotty events. However, they do have oral traditions that date back to many generations and no one claimed divine “guidance”. Even though they don’t wear clothes, they are pretty decent people.

There had been hardly a case in history, when an entire civilization accepted revelation in its entirety. It has always been the individuals, that were and are rightly guided.

Perfect creator’s imperfect creations?

Blaming short comings of individuals on scripture is by no mean the fault of the scripture. It’s all about the effort an individual makes to revolve his/her conduct around what’s revealed. The degree and level of acceptance and submission, brings the light of guidance. But, at the end, the guidance does not come by the choice of an individual. The guidance is only in the hands of the Creator. And He bestows guidance only on whom He wills.

Oooooooh. So 1) creator is merciful. 2) creator is a harsh judge. 3) creator discriminates whom to bestow with “guidance”. HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA.

I have already answered this point in detail. The Creator is in no way need of anything what so ever. The creations are in forever need of the bounty and mercy from the Creator. It’s simple: remember your Creator and He will remember you, you can let go of Him, and He will let go of you. He has given you the limited free will to decide what’s best for you. Although, He has left nothing for doubtfulness. He has laid out criterion as to how a Believer should lead/his her life. Not only He is the most Merciful and Most compassionate, but He is also the Lord of retribution. The choice is individual’s as to how one will or will not strive to be closer to his Lord OR make effort to displease his Creator or simply live in confused state padded with doubts.

1. "Creator is in no way need of anything.
2. "but he is also the lord of retribution.

You keep contradicting yourself.

Why not state the arguments on facts, instead of getting personal. If you deny the criterion set out by God, then provide with solid counter arguments, to support your beliefs.

So far you haven’t provided a single fact except for rhetoric to make your points. There is a lot of confusion in your thinking. I think you should reconcile your own beliefs before preaching to the world.

[LuxuryItem]

Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)

@cat-woman

Allah are you serious, this cant be happening ...

Actual dialogue ...

cat-woman: Allah are you serious, this cant be happening ...

Allah: welcome to the real world.

[cat-woman]

Re: What will it take to shake/strengthen your belief in God? (merged)

lol Thanks LI ... btw, I just went back and read your arguments with Abdullah K - one of the most interesting debates to date.

Two questions - So are you agnostic? And do you believe that Hadith and the stories of the Prophets are the most successful folklore of modern times?