What to do

Lifestyle Relationships
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21

Re: What to do

I disagree. With most women I know, this isn't the kind of thing you can joke around about. I see your point though, because ultimately it depends on the kind of dynamics a specific couple has. From the sounds of it, OP doesn't have a very clear line of communication with his wife. If she's the kind of person who will shout and cry to get her way, she will defeinitely not respond well to a comment like this. She might even percieve this as a "threat" and end up acting out because of this. It's much better to settle the matter peacefully.

22

Re: What to do

Well then, she will shout and cry once. She will at least begin to understand. Sometimes all someone needs is a little "aha!" moment. That could he hers. Trying to make her happy is all he can do and if she doesn't learn, he has to set her straight with tough love. She will come to know he is not actually going to leave or get a second wife but hopefully, she will see things from his perspective.

23

Re: What to do

^Sure enough..but some women do take that as "threat". I knew someone who was like that. I wouldn't recommend it. Some people are not smart in differentiating and perceiving communication. If she yells and is verbally abusive without even acknowledging her mistake then eventually it will break you buddy. Telling you from

My suggestion, try to her talk to someone she is close to..and then try sitting her down and talk.

24

Re: What to do

boring loag ho yaar! larka larki kai pichai lag gai.akhir mai kaun jita, bas yeh batana mujhai!

25

Re: What to do

I live off principles and especially fulfilling at least what I am supposed to Islamically so I cannot do this as firstly she is entitled to visit her parents once a week (the lenient view) and I cannot complain with that (although she is still visiting and her parent is actually abroad) but I agree with once a week regardless and secondly regarding maintenance and lodging I will explain inmy next post what has recently occurred and the conclusion.

I was never ok with it but she always complained that I live with parents and family around and she should be able to go, coupled with all the crying of moving and her being 'unable' to adapt to life away from home I didn't argue about it but I did mention it and Is till mention it. When I have an issue with it she will argue about something else and I am oppressing her.

Depends what you mean socialising, if you mean when I go around she will come with me but I know she doesn't want to so nowadays I just tell her I am going and if she wants to come she can, she still does. But going to my extended family herself or ringing them etc, never. But to be honest that doesn't bother me as they are living their lives quite happily and it does not bother them.

Regarding my mother, what can I say. She has clearly stated she does not want to live with her. Now I am not being biased because she is my mother. All my mother does is wake up, make her own breakfast or whatever, put an islamic channel on, sit with a tasbeeh and watch. My wife can come in and out as she pleases. There isn't much of a relationship, at the start my mum would cry as she would want a specific type of daughter in-law who would talk to her, go out with her and who would at least mention when she goes to her parents house out of courtesy but even that was an issue with my wife as she stated why should she. But now my mum knows what to expect and it doesn't bother her

But then I get the opposite as well, when we are making food she will ask me to ask my mum what she wants but will hardly ever ask herself, although mum due to her stomach ailments will mostly have quite a lot of food given to her by my siblings who pass it over and in the fridge. This was also an issue initially as I did ask her to make food for mum and after an argument or two she said she would but that she didn't have to religiously. As my mum would never directly ask her to make her something she used to tell me that she will only make something to eat when asked by my mum so that didn't work either.

But to be honest my mum is happy as she can make her own food and is given to her as well from my siblings and she doesn't really need my wife to be at home and converse with her.

Overall she is courteous with my family and whoever comes around but I would say that she is the type of person who would rather not see them if she had the chance.

I have much bottled inside as I know each time I say something she will go bring 50 other things into it.

My wife isn't the type that I can state anything about a second wife!!!

I'll give an example of the issue I have in the next post and I think I have reached a conclusion as to what I have to do

26

Re: What to do

You are screwed, man! She needs to know your rights too so she can start appreciating what you do for her. Why don't you tell her you feel unloved because she doesn't appreciate what you do for her? About second wife, I only meant it as something you should at least mention to explain that we ALL have rights but not every right should be exercised because it could be unfair to our spouse and if we all just cared about our rights, then we are living very selfishly. How about you put it this way: What would happen to her if something unfortunate happened to you? What will become of her and her rights? Who will happily fulfill her rights? Does she even have any qualifications to be able to get a job to feed and clothe herself and if she does, will she care about your rights even if you couldn't provide for her? She brings pretty much nothing to the table so why does she act so spoiled?

27

Re: What to do

I feel bad for your and your mother. I dont understand your wife type of women. Selfish!!

you need to put your foot down on both of these issues, visiting parents is fine but staying over all the time is too much. She knew your living condition before she got married to you, tell her to deal with it.

28

Re: What to do

Only I know what is really happening. My mum to be fair must have heard our arguments in the house but doesn't say anything to me.

29

Re: What to do

Right so, this will be a long post but at least I have figured out what I need to do...

A couple of weeks ago we started looking at houses to purchase, we noted a few down but nothing really happened, I got bogged down with work and due to my own laziness it didn't happen. Anyway on Monday my wife messaged me with a few links as she thinks I am taking it too slowly so I came home, didn't mention anything related to the text until after we had eaten when she reminded me and I stated we would look for houses after our meal.

We looked for houses 9pm - 11pm and then I decided to sleep once we had finished our search but she wasn't happy and stated that I don't even talk to her, I reminded her that I have just had a meal with you (mum was there as well) and for two hours we have talked whilst searching for houses, anyway after a few minutes she disappeared. I checked each room upstairs and realised she was downstairs watching tv so I asked her whether she was coming up and she said 'what is the point' so I went back up, I at the end of the day have to wake up at 5am and at this point it was nearly 11:30am I didn't want to entertain her.

I always text her in the morning first but this time I didn't bother, as if she wanted to talk she would not have bothered going downstairs and I thought I'll wait for her but nothing. I went home and we talked a little about general stuff and then sat down to eat, after that she disappeared upstairs so I stayed downstairs for a while, read some Qur'an and went up, this is when the argument started.

She said she was pregnant and suffers from anxiety because of me, I am evil, I do this on purpose, I have no emotions, I do not care about anyone and I have not done anything for her at all. The conversation is fresh in my head so it went like this:

W: I have been emotional all day, you don't care about me, you didn't even bother with me when I went downstairs yesterday and you didn't even text me today and you hardly talked to me whilst eating.I am preganant and you are not addressing my emotional state. My friend has just been (she came when I got home from work) and even she noticed I wasn't looking right and you just do not care about me

M: If you wanted to talk to me whilst eating then why didn't you and why did you put the tv on if a talk is needed. I text you first everyday since we got to know each other, yesterday you said you wanted to talk and when I said let's talk about whatever you want, you disappeared downstairs to watch tv and if for one day in our marriage I did not text you then you need to text me, that is the time that you should step up and fill the void

W: Why should I contact? I am the one who is emotional, not you. You have never cared about me, why is it always about you, why can't you see me feeling like this, I am crying and you are not coming to console me

Extremely agitated, about to explode with lots and lots of swearing, I was going to walk out here but it would have made matters worse

So I went over and she pushed me away and said she has had enough. I said to her whether she has ever considered that maybe her state of emotion is that high that it is a big problem. she replied by stating all the people in my town are like me and have no emtions and we might as well be zombies compared to her.

Then came the crux of the argument

W: I have waiting forever for this house and you are doing nothing, you said months ago
ME: I said we can rent but I do not have a deposit but now I do so we can buy a house now

W: We have a couple of months left. I said to you I will not have a child in this house, I will not come back here when I have a child
ME: Yes you will, you will come back to where we live from wherever the hospital is

W: You are so controlling, you control everything
Me: What do I control? What have I stopped you doing that you want to do, give me one example fo when I have controlled you

No answer, just lots of staring at me, like she is about to hit me. SO I asked her again but no reply

W: I have had enough I don't even know why I am with you. You will realise when I am not here. I am pregnant how have you helped me I am still cooking
Me: Today I came from work, I warmed up the food, I set the table up and I made the roti whilst you were in the bathroom, I also ask you all the time what I can do but you say nothing and now you're complaining. What do you do in the week: Beside the cooking, there is one load of washing and drying per week and possibly the groceries which you go for a walk and come back in a taxi. I can do all them except the cooking in one evening but you don't let me and I have done this many occasions before

W: You were pussyfooting around your mother, you were helping her with the food. I was upstairs after our meal and you stayed downstairs, you do not care about me
ME: I was reading the Qur'an and regarding my mother I stopped her from washing just as I stopped you as well and I ensured that I alone did everything and she didn't even eat the food I made, her food was in the fridge and she didn't eat until after we had put everything away

W: I do not care, I am not living here with my child
ME: Fine, let's rent a house, We will move by the end of the week

W: No, I want to be safe ansd secure and I want a house paid for
ME: Your mother has lived with your siblings in a rented hosue for 20 years, what is your problem

W: Yes, my mother did everything herself and as I said I will only lived in a paid house, I do not care what you say, I did not wait this long for nothing
Me: Have I fulfilled your rights? Do I pay your maintenance? Do I pay for your food, Once I have an accomodation for you then what else do you want

W: You do not do anything for me. I do everything, I am a good wife and I do everything, what do I do wrong, I will find my own place, away from you

I could have said a lot here but in her current state she would have flipped

During the above she said a lot more than what is written and would not let me at all defend myself, it was all accusations such as I hide things, I am evil, zombie, I am selfish. At each step I stopped her and told her to explain and she never did, not once.

Finally I said to her I would like us both to speak to our Islamic teacher and she started crying and said 'no way, you are making a simple argument into something massive'. I said I am going to speak to him and she was about to explode again so I didn't bother speaking about rights. I am just going to somehow get her together with the teacher.

I knwo I am going to mention issues again whenshe is calma nd I cannot let this go but I know it will not go well and she will not let me get a word in. Can you imagine me stating that she can't stay over - she will go mental and never agree, uqite possibly walk out

All this argument is the same as every other argument. She initially comes out like she is about to attack me, lots of shouting, swearing and all accusation. I cannot get a word in and when I do I do not shout or swear then she gets extremely agitated and before she has actually walked out, that is why I refuse to say a lot because naturally what I say will be the opposite of what she thinks and she cannot take it and so will become extremely angry. To me, she is like a woman possessed during these altercations.

She said she has become like this because of me, she wants a new start in a new house so I repeated the rented house but she was having none of it. I said I am solely leaving this house to fulfill your right of leaving separately from my mother and this house. She was having none of it, Kept saying I am leaving to start a family. At this point she was literally about to explode. Because I was calm (I have seen it all before) she started on me again, look at you just sitting there doing nothing, you are useless to me etc...

I now my wife and all she wants if more to do everything, everything should come from me. I should ring, I should text, I should make the first move, whenever I ask why not her she erupts.

I am sorry for typing the above but yes I need to sit her down with a third person who will explain her rights and mine and also ensure she answers the questions regarding me being selfisg etc.

30

Re: What to do

^Was she always like this or did this start happening after she got pregnant? She sounds VERY hormonal. Talk to her OBGYN if this is recent. If she has been this way all her life, she needs a psychiatrist, seriously. You can't help her, she won't listen to you. Getting together with your Islamic teacher is a good idea so definitely make her do that somehow. She sounds like she has Borderline Personality Disorder with some narcissistic tendencies. She HAS TO see a psychiatrist or she will make your life hell. I have a BPD cousin who can't talk without shouting, personal attacks, and swearing. We never know when she will lose her temper. I am quite familiar with this type and it is not easy living with them. They break you down until you are nothing and even then they beat you some more. They are manipulative and only do something for you to use it against you in an argument. No matter what you do, they will never be satisfied. Oh and they are so deep in denial that making them see that they have a problem is nearly impossible. You have a tough task ahead of you. I hope this is a recent development and she goes back to her normal self after pregnancy. Good luck, man!

31

Re: What to do

Do not buy her a home!!! That would be the biggest mistake in the world...

She's is a narcissist and her excuses don't matter. We're all responsible for our own actions and knowing the impact of our actions on others. She doesn't get to play stupid and blame everything on Islamic rights, when those rights are convenient and ignore them, when its not.

32

Re: What to do

Dude...Please see the light:

She is not going to be happy even after you buy her a house.

This is NOT about the house at all...there is a bigger issue here...and that is you giving in to everything because she might erupt and her being so selfish she can manipulate you...and make you fear exactly what you already do.

This is sad. A marriage is a partnership and teamwork...she is not on your side...she doesn't want to help you...just wants you to spoil her, coddle her, buy her things, pamper her, etc.

Do not buy a house yet - go get marriage counseling first and until she has a sane and normal conversation with you where she ALSO compromises and comes to an understanding about how this marriage will work - stay put.

33

Re: What to do

You seem to be scared of upsetting her, pregnant or not. You need to put your foot down. Firmly.

As for the talk of rights, she seems to be interested in hers only. She is manipulative and the more you give in to her whims, the more she will exploit you. This is so not the time to buy her a house, rather sort out your differences first.

34

Re: What to do

Buying a house is a big deal. Don't be bullied into it if you aren't ready. Your wife sounds quite spoilt. And the yelling and swearing is just unacceptable. You should relay that message tobher quite clearly. You put up with her behaviour so she knows she can get away with it. The moment you put your foot down things will get better. Tell her this isn't the kind of relationship you want andthe only way you see forward is counselling.

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Re: What to do

  1. Take her out to a nice dinner one day. In an outside setting, she knows you are alone (your mother can't hear) and yet in a public place so she will be forced to have an honest, adult conversation without screaming/swearing etc

  2. Frame the conversation with the upcoming change in both your lives meaning the baby. Tell her the baby will be lots of work and will require more of her attention and at-home time. Both Nani and dadi will want to be involved with baby and how does your wife plan on managing that? Will she want help/babysitting from your mom? Will she make it difficult for your mom to visit the baby? Will she deprive you of time with your child by staying over her mothers' house too often? Tell her your expectations but also keep in mind that after baby you might actually want her to spend a few nights a month at her moms so you can have a restful sleep.

  3. Don't make her feel less valuable like I can do everything you do in just one evening. Be kind and loving and ask is she has a genuine problem with your mom and how she can work on it to develop a better relationship with your mom. You say you don't have any issues with her ignoring your mom but your posts reveal that there is hidden contempt between you two because of this fact. I feel bad for your mom in all this its not cool to literally refuse to spend any time with her, not cook for her, or even inform her before leaving the house.

Show your wife, in writing, exactly the amount you will spend on the new house, your wife and Childs monthly expenses, and how much you give your mom for her expenses after you move out so there are no surprises later.

  1. If after all this she still goes quiet or starts screaming then you must stick up for yourself, give your mom the importance she deserves, and let your ungrateful wife stay mad until she can learn to be an adult.
36

Re: What to do

I don’t think it has anything to do with getting her own place, it’s just some daughters can’t live without their mothers & mothers without daughters even if they are married, some even interfere in their personal lives & what not, thank God which is not the case here. She will continue this routine even if she gets her own house. She doesn’t have interest in doing any other activity but to visit her mother’s place. She needs to understand the fact that she is married now & have responsibilities towards her spouse too.

All people in her family works & she is the one who takes care of everything in that house while they are gone. Perhaps she thinks that she is more required at her mothers than at yours. Folks in your in laws need to understand that she is married now & has her family to take care of & can’t be there to do their work, baby sit & all that jazz. They should let you guys live your life & not put their responsibilities on her.

Another thing is you forcing her to work is not right. If she doesn’t want to then that’s her choice, you can’t force her to work.

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Re: What to do

Well..she does seem to be narcassist kind. And these people do not see their fault in anything. And refuse for counselling. They are quick to point finger at you. Or may be she grew up very protective and sheltered her whole life. Whatever the issue is...she needs help and so as you bro. Do not keep things bottled up. I was like you way back..whenever anyone said anything...i would keep quiet..and i know it's a good thing that you do not lash out. But the problem remains same. So the best suggestion is tell that person that this has made you upset and angry without shouting or yelling. And say..you will talk to her when you are calm or just talk about it..right there and then.

On the other hand...before even getting married...both couple should visit scholar or counsellor..to learn about each other's rights. So crucial these days.

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Re: What to do

Update and it is not good news at all

So me and my wife woke up today and I had my class to go to of which she has decided a month or so ago to stop going to. I had a shower and asked her what she wanted for breakfast, as far as I know she said nothing so I said I'll put my cereal I'm and wait for you.

I went downstairs and my mum was already in the kitchen having already finished her breakfast. Whilst I was putting my cereal in she said what does W want to eat and I replied nothing yet. Then she asked me whether she should put some tea on for me and I replied no, then finally she asked about W and I said no, let her come down and make it then. Finally she asked me again about my tea and I said yes as I was getting late.

At this point when my mum put the tea down my wife was already in the room and put her own cereal in and sat next to me and had a few years which she wiped away. I asked why and she didn't reply. After breakfast I followed her up as she could she I was annoyed and I asked her again, at this point she said it wasn't you but after constantly asking she just said to stop making a big deal put of it.

Now comes the argument....

When I came back from the class we helped each other put some food in and ate together, whilst eating she mentioned that she needs to go to her mum's in the morning as an item is to be delivered and will then stay the night and come back the next day as nephew needs to be babysit as his father has decided to go to work, I asked her why not anybody else and the reply was that everyone is working.

At this point I went quite and thought here comes another argument, we then went upstairs and got in bed, at this point she mentioned that her mother is back on Thursday so she will go on Thursday but she won't stay and her mother has appointments early next week and she will stay a few days then. All this without asking or anything. At this point I asked her:

M: Your a married woman don't you think you should tell me beforehand?
W: I was only told about babysitting today so I couldn't, anyway what's it the problem, all I do is sit here looking at four walls, I have nothing to do

M: You're my wife, You should at least sit at home, we have a child coming and are you gonna do the same then?
W: What has this got to do with our child. I can come and go as I please, I have a family and when they need me I will be there, if it is to babysit then so be it. All you do is go to work and come back. So what if I go and I come back during the day what is it to you?

M: Do you not see what is wrong with what you are saying? You can go when you want and stay over when you want?
W: Yes you are a control freak, You subtly try to control me, all you want is a paki wife that sits at home. Who have you been listening to this time heh? I can do what I want. I had so much freedom when I was single and look now. I hardly stay over there

M: When you get married you have different responsibilities
W: Not like this, I cannot do anything

M: What can you not do?
W:....
M: How am I control freak? Explain?

W: the One place I can go and feel at home you are stopping me, the one place.
M: so you don't feel at home here? What's gonna happen in our new house?

W: I have nephews and nieces that cry when I'm leaving and you can't stop me from seeing them and staying over when I want, what has it got to do with you. All you are doing is being the paki man who wants to be a leader
M: I think we need to speak to our teachers

W: I'm not speaking to anyone, You can go speak to your sheikh I'm leaving I have had enough

At this point she took her phone and went downstairs and said she will ring someone to pick her up and I followed her downstairs

Bu the way, she swore to me a lot but I haven't put those in.

She didn't ring but said the following.

W: You make me miserable, all I ask for you stop it
M: Explain to me what I have stopped?
W:.....

M: Can you not even ask before you go
W: Why should I ask you whether I can go and stay over, You never bought me, I can do what I want. Paki guy wants me to ask him if I can stay over. Your sister always stayed over here, remember?

M: Yes she stayed over here when she wa divorced but since remarry in she has never stayed here not even once
W: But you sisters have stayed over at each others houses, why don't you stop them, or is it all about me and you let them do what they want

M: They stayed over and yes it was like once on 6 months, altogether they must have stayed over a handful of times on the last five years

W: Your dad was ill and your mum went to Pakistan
M: Yes, my grandmother was on her deathbed

W: my family is different to your family and this is normal for us, if you don't do it that doesn't mean everyone else doesn't do it. Why can't you accept we are different

W: I hate this house, this prison. Look at your mum she ran to put your tea on today didn't she. What about me, nobody put anything in for me. I told you I wanted something cold
M: I heard nothing so when my mum asked about you I said leave it
W: You're defending her as always.... Anyway your family lives nearby and you give them lifts so what if I go back and forth, what's it to you

Now walks upstairs and jumps in bed and thr last thing she said was 'you'll get everything you want, I'll be going tomorrow and I won't be coming back

During the middle somewhere she said that I pick and choose from Islam so I asked what do I pick and choose, you have money, everything you need and now a house so please explain but no reply at all. The I was told I have a 'paki mentality' and expect my wife to sit at home with nothing to do.

I don't know what to do. I honestly don't. I am stuck, seriously stuck. I spoke to my second teacher as the first is not available for a week and he mentioned the views are wrong and that you can either speak to the first teacher when he is back but you also have the option of a relationship councillor with vast experience who also knows the rules of Islam but I can't even mention this as she ain't interested. I want to stop her going but I know I'm not going to get anywhere. But if I let her go does this mean I could lose my child before it is even born.

I have no chance of getting family involved as long story but zero chance on that front. I wouldn't want to anyway

I forgot she also complained that I make plans without her and after pressing her about what, she said your nephew asked you about going to your dad's grave next Saturday and you said yes. I told her the kid is 9 years old and I said yes yes as I was doing something else and not really paying attention. She said you still made plans and that he is old enough to understand what you said. I told her I won't be going as I didn't even know about the plans until you just reminded me but she moved onto the next topic

39

Re: What to do

If something doesn't change the following will happen :

I will pay the mortgage for the rest of my life
I will pay her expenses and my childs
I will contribute something towards my mother (this will become an issue I can already see it as currently we don't really save, money is always available)
I will hardly be allowed to go to anyone's house unless she is feeling happy so most likely I won't as I don't do now already for this very reason (I go but I always think about possible ramifications)

In return we wife will

Stay at home all day whilst talking on the phone, skyping away and going to town for her siblings like she already does to buy items such as birthday presents as they don't do it
Stay over at her mum's whenever she can
Go and look after kids whenever she can as the sister and husband both work and so my mil does it and gets ill and tired and also has her own appointments

The rights are all one way. I don't know what I'm gonna do here.

She called me a tyrant, a control freak, a paki guy, paki leader amongst loads of swears

Also said she spoke to her friends and even they said to get out. I was asked what you told them but nothing.

40

Re: What to do

I mentioned once ages ago about me working for her and she stated that I was working before I met her and I'm still working so my life isn't any different. I then said I let you spend whatever you want, you have your own card and she replied that I hardly spend anything so there is no difference in your life. You live in the same house, same job, same people and everything is different for me

She then proceeded to say that she now cooks for me and washes and irons my clothes and before marriage naturally she wasn't doing these things for me as we weren't together. So she puts more in then me into this marriage and there is more change to her lifestyle

I was shocked as whenever see a load of clothes ready to wash I'll wash them and iron them all myself the only reason I can't is because she stops me or because it is done during the day once a week

How do you say to your spouse you cannot be available 'on-call' for everyone in your family and you need to do things in our town. She will just say you are selfish. When someone has no desire to do anything other than go to parents under the pretext that something needs to be done you cannot win.

She goes at least once a week minimum and all I'm waiting for the moment everyday when she says I need to go again or I need to stay for such and such reason etc mainly because sister and hubby are at work and mum needs me to babysit.