I know there’s no political support for these Taliban-styled groups. The people don’t want to see them in the parliament. Yet when it comes to their antics, like suicide attacks, taking over villages and killing Pakistani security forces, there seems to be a very high degree of antipathy and indifference, which has emboldened these self-styled ultra religious outfits. I don’t want Pakistan to be another Afghanistan, so what exactly can the *people *do to deal with this menace?
Please leave the government out of this and for once focus on the individuals, the people who make that country.
I know there's no political support for these Taliban-styled groups. The people don't want to see them in the parliament. Yet when it comes to their antics, like suicide attacks, taking over villages and killing Pakistani security forces, there seems to be a very high degree of antipathy and indifference, which has emboldened these self-styled ultra religious outfits. I don't want Pakistan to be another Afghanistan, so what exactly can the *people *do to deal with this menace? Please leave the government out of this and for once focus on the individuals, the people who make that country.
First step would be to stay away from such people, second would be to pursue all friends/relatives/their-friends/relatives to stop supporting false jihads.
Will try to come back and add laters.
Re: What to do about the mullah probelm in Pak?
yup avoid or stay away from such people who support killings and blood shed that too at the name of islam and allah
Re: What to do about the mullah probelm in Pak?
Spread awareness of the true essence of Islam as widely as possible. This will do two things, 1. It will truly educate the masses 2. It will clear any confusion people have about what is right and what is wrong, as well as the types of Jihad.
Because Jihad is a unanimous word. At basic, it means to struggle within oneself and the biggest Jihad is to become a better practicing muslim. Second Jihad is to educate and encourage others to become better muslimeen, and the Jihad that involves conflict is the self-defense one.
We, the muslims, are very weak in the first two departments as of right now. There's a hadith that narrates along the lines of current state of muslims, where they are in great numbers but they're powerless because they lack unity so they suffer at the hand of others.
So it's time to REbuild the foundation and re-educate people.
This menace can get eradicated only by strong government will. There is very good way to eradicate this menace if Pakistan government desires to do so. Unfortunately, slaying this menace has political cost and thus there is no political will to hold the bull of this menace with horn and slay it. Political cost is such that if ruling party (PPP) would do anything, other parties would use action of ruling party along with their propaganda and lies to gain political mileage.
PML-Q is already neutralised. The biggest expected trouble makers are PML-N and those parties who boycotted the election. Some of past judges could be threat too. I think that this is the reason Zardari is trying to bring all parties in one fold, especially PML-N by giving them government of Punjab else PPP would have never given Punjab to PML-N, so that if actions are taken, no party use propaganda and lies to create unrest and gain mileage.
As for people, even if majority do not support this menace they are sleeping lot, Most Pakistanis are completely ignorant of Islam and these menace easily brainwashes them. As long as this menace does not start affecting them directly, quite a number would keep fuelling this menace with money, support of voice, and manpower.
Re: What to do about the mullah probelm in Pak?
^ and what can people **do **to stop this menace ? (thread topic)
^ and what can people **do **to stop this menace ? (thread topic)
For starters to stop repeating jihadist propaganda. One of the key points of jihadist propaganda is to blame absolutely anyone but the jihadi terrorists themselves for the violence. There are many many pakistanis who fall prey to this propaganda.
PML-Q is already neutralised.
I'm sorry but this contradicts pretty much all you said about the lota league in the last few months after the elections :D
Re: What to do about the mullah probelm in Pak?
I found Sa1eem's response to be the typical Pakistani response. Dump it on the government. What about the 140+million people who are not the government? Should they just fold their hands and watch this suicide tamasha replete with jihadist attacks go on -- is that what you're implying? In that case, these 140 million or so people, which include the likes of you who just love to pass the buck to the authorities, deserve every bit whats happening.
I'm sorry but this contradicts pretty much all you said about the lota league in the last few months after the elections :D
Spock saheb, PML(Q) is already neutralised means that they are unlikely to use any action by government (PPP) against this menace for propaganda and political mileage. Reason is that PML(Q) have already tried their best to bring this menace in control during last few years but could not succeed because some political parties started propaganda full of lies against government actions. Result is that, even now President Musharraf and PML(Q) are paying the price for those actions. PPP is roped in by President to fight these menace and PML(Q) is already on board with President's decision. This is done to give a kind of political face (perceived popular political face) to operations against this menace. Hence, if government (PPP) would decide to take concrete steps against the menace, they would find PML(Q) cooperative.
Spock saheb, PML(Q) is already neutralised means that they are unlikely to use any action by government (PPP) against this menace for propaganda and political mileage..
PML[Q] unlikely to use any action by Govt PPP against this menace? I think you should reread ur posts saleem bhai. Why would the PML[Q] need to use 'any' action 'by' the PPP govt?
If you are trying to say (assuming your prepositions are messed up), that the PML[Q] cannot counter the allegations from the present Govt about their incompetence to deal with this problem, no ones neutered them, they can still defend themselves no ones stopping them. But like the cowards that they are, they wont, take for instance that buffoon shortcut aziz who ran away and wouldn't even come back to defend his policies at the behest of his mai-baap Musharraf.
I found Sa1eem's response to be the typical Pakistani response. Dump it on the government. What about the 140+million people who are not the government? Should they just fold their hands and watch this suicide tamasha replete with jihadist attacks go on -- is that what you're implying? In that case, these 140 million or so people, which include the likes of you who just love to pass the buck to the authorities, deserve every bit whats happening.
These retards are armed to teeth and have number of rich donors behind them. They also have a queue of brainwashed Zombies in masses willing to die and kill. Solution cannot be dialogue as these people do not think logically nor they are willing to accept any argument. They would not even accept Quran if it does not suit their beliefs. For purpose of spreading their fitna, they can interpret anything from Quran and hadith to their liking, even if their interpretation is completely illogical to what is there in Quran and hadith. If people would say anything they do not believe, these people are quick to use force against them or even kill them.
In such situation, what ordinary people can do? Unless government do not force laws on them, disarm them, tame them, and save lives of innocent Pakistanis from their fitna, things could not change easily; rather cloud of darkness these retards are spreading would keep spreading.
^ and what can people **do **to stop this menace ? (thread topic)
People should open their mind, discuss Islam with cool mind, think logically, learn Islam from all sources, then try to confront these people logically using Islamic teachings, and save themselves from falling into the hand of these retards.
Though discussion and confrontation with these retards is very difficult as these people do not have brain to think or discuss anything logically. Iblis has taken complete control over their mind and soul. Anyhow, if people would not confront them then sooner or later, many people themselves would become soldier of Iblis and would be spreading this Shaitanic cult in the name of Islam.
I call them retards because I discussed Islam with many of them (Taliban supporters) and I found none capable of discussing anything logically. Most of the time, either they left discussion without answering or became agitated, started calling names, doing takfeer, etc etc ... but never showed any mental capability to answer their beliefs or justify their understanding of Islam. I found that most are following what they are told like Zombies and are not even willing to accept that they are wrong even when they are proven wrong logically, or given references from Quran and hadiths.
PML[Q] unlikely to use any action by Govt PPP against this menace? I think you should reread ur posts saleem bhai. Why would the PML[Q] need to use 'any' action 'by' the PPP govt?
If you are trying to say (assuming your prepositions are messed up), that the PML[Q] cannot counter the allegations from the present Govt about their incompetence to deal with this problem, no ones neutered them, they can still defend themselves no ones stopping them. But like the cowards that they are, they wont, take for instance that buffoon shortcut aziz who ran away and wouldn't even come back to defend his policies at the behest of his mai-baap Musharraf.
Brother Spock, it seems that you read part of the sentence and left the rest. This caused confusion in your mind regarding what I wrote. I am sorry that I gave you an answer in more than one line. Anyhow, I did not write what you understood ... You only read blue part of the sentence and ignored maroon part. I am sure that if you will read complete sentence, you will get answer to the confusion you got into. Thanks.
Here is complete sentence: PML[Q] is unlikely to use any action by PPP government against this menace for propaganda and political mileage.
I also answered the reason for above statement in my post. The reason: PPP is in power with consent of President and PML(Q) and purpose of PPP in power is to confront Jihadi outfits. NRO was issued with this purpose in mind.
Too many people pointing too many fingers. Can we really blame the Q league and Mushy for what has happened over the last month? Why do we always need to blame someone?
The people could easily unite against them but the problem is too many other issues - the judiciary needs to be independent and anyone who is stalling that process is a threat to pakistan. People need to forge a united front against these Militants and say you are not welcome. the elections were a message to militants - ie the public does no longer support you. the militants have dug their own grave - they lost all respectibility within pakistan when they started to attack its own citizens.
Its about time anti-militants forces both government and citizens united.
Spread awareness of the true essence of Islam as widely as possible. This will do two things, 1. It will truly educate the masses 2. It will clear any confusion people have about what is right and what is wrong, as well as the types of Jihad. ....
You know this reminds me of the historical prevalence of AIDS disease among gay community.
What do the gay pride people say in response? Spread the good message. Educate others that being gay is good. This will automatically eliminate AIDS. Duh!
*Too many people pointing too many fingers. Can we really blame the Q league and Mushy for what has happened over the last month? Why do we always need to blame someone? *
Its about time anti-militants forces both government and citizens united.
Because that is something we are good at. By blaming our opponents we THINK that responsibility to deal with such issues is shifted to them as well.
All over the world, in civilised countries, when such crisis emerges, they tend to DEAL with the crisis 1st and only then they go for witch hunting. In Pakistan we follow the shadows and forget the crisis.
........All over the world, in civilised countries, when such crisis emerges, they tend to DEAL with the crisis 1st and only then they go for witch hunting. In Pakistan we follow the shadows and forget the crisis.
Xeno bro! you said it right. "Civilized countries" eliminate tribals in order to become "civilized".
In our situation, tribals are the hero, they are the true Muslims, they are the one with "mehrab" on their forehead.
So this is a catch 22. Either we decide that tribals are bad, so their elimination will make us civilized. But how can a tribal "Muslim" with mehrab on his forehead can be bad!
On this very board, Western educated aka "civilized" educated Pakistanis tend to side with tribals. What gives!
o this is a catch 22. Either we decide that tribals are bad, so their elimination will make us civilized. But how can a tribal "Muslim" with mehrab on his forehead can be bad!
Actually you are showing symptoms of some other disease, some call it "generalization" while some may call it by some other names.
What other parts of the country has shown "civilization"? Lawyers? Ministers? ISI? Military? Police? Judiciary? Politicians?
Its not really "tribals" who are the root cause of our problems, tribals are only the "tool" in creation of this problem.