what the!!! they have DANCE CLUBS that serve alcohol in pakistan now???

Arts & Culture Culture, Arts, Literature & Linguistics
41

LuxuryItem that’s stupid logic. Just because we have pronounced something wrong for centuries does not mean we have to carry on like that. It sounds crap and like brother Islamabad pointed out it can sometimes change the meaning.

Even you agree that the root of these words is Arabic.

Anyway my name is not really Dhulfiqar or Zulfiqar, it’s just a screen name…

Wanting to pronounce summat right does not mean I want to be an Arab.

Ma'assalaama wa Fi Amman Ullah :D

Khalif how is holding on to our Islamic values and shunning evil betraying the land of our births?

You sound like one of those burger family types in Pakistan who listen to English rock and try speaking in their broken English with ‘butt butt ding’ accents.

Shame!!

“Dhobi ka kutta, na ghar ka na ghat ka”

“Kawa chala hans ki chal to apni bhi bhool gia”

42

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by khalif: *

i really pity u degas. it can mean three things.
1. u r in house arrest since ur birth.
2. u r blind.
3. u r a hypocrit.

which is true?
[/QUOTE]

I may be whatever u think about me but muslims dont drink.. are not allowed to drink - it doesnt mean all 1.2 billion adhere to it.. same as Hindus dont eat beef.. but some do.. but as a general way of talking we say that.. muslims fast toooo in Ramadan but u can say I am blind if u see some muslim not fasting!

43

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Dhulfiqar: *
**LuxuryItem* that’s stupid logic. Just because we have pronounced something wrong for centuries does not mean we have to carry on like that. It sounds crap and like brother Islamabad pointed out it can sometimes change the meaning.

[/QUOTE]

You are wrong again!

With the eventual growth of a language, comes the assimiliation of foreign words whicn in turn are made indigenous by the speakers. It happened with Urdu and guess what, it happened with English too! There are many English words that were assimiliated into English vocabulary or evolved from French language. Does that mean that English speakers ought to regress to 15th. century French pronunciations?

Simply put, what you are doing is aping Arabs.

44

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *

Exactly. why?

I say cheating is a sin, and apprehendable acts of cheating should be apprehended. I doubt anyone here would say/believe to the contrary.

It is not a topic of debate. It is a settled issue.
[/QUOTE]

Ravage

the point being, if it is a settled point, is it enough for people to just agree on it and not be concerned that it is not being followed?

so we agree that corruption is bad..so we agree that kissi ka haqq marna burra hai...is just saying its wrong enough? and if it is, lets just say clubs are wring and lets go on with our lives..

but, the issue is that our religious "leaders" i.e. the political goons who use religion as a tool in pakistan, seem to have more issues with music and posters than academic dishonesty, nepotism, corruption etc.

the person who is going to teh clubs and drinking is nto hurting anyone but himself, and maybe if it becomes a problem..those around him. whereas the cancer of corruption and nepotism, prejudice and sectarianism is hurting far more people.

this is nto to say we should say its all okay for ppl to drink, if its against the principles of the religion, it is against it, no ifs ands or buts about it, those who do not observe it do so of their own will and will be answerable for their own actions. But..when we talk about "oh such and such is not islamic" and its i going on in our country..lets look at the broader picture. I still remember the pathan guy who worked at a tandoor around my nana's home. during pathan-mohajir riots in teh 80's the same people who he cooked the naan for..people from the same area..a amob burnt him in his own tandoor.

That to me is a bigger problem, that to me is something we should be alarmed about...it needs attention, and needs more attention than some people drinking who would have found alcohol elsewhere anyways..

45

hmm this is kinda old news isnt it?

my friend went back to pakistan about 2 and a bit years back and she went to a few clubs in lahore where drinking and drugs were a normal thing...

i dont think its just a karachi thing.. u can find these hidden clubs (besides the private parties) all over lahore...

46

Bingo Fraudiya!!!!

I never understood why people think that someone who has a galss of wine is condemned to hell but someone who kills kids by wrapping a suicide belt around their waist is a martyr. Hmmmm...

47

^ its called denial Matsui... everyone wants to condemn a person for drinking or sleeping around.. but no one ever sees the problem with bribery, corruption etc...

48

Let’s break out of this denial Sadzz…together we shall create a new paradigm where people who like a nice Australian elixir can walk hand in hand unabashed with those who like milk. :flower1:

49

hehe... its so hard for people to break out of it.. its something they've just become accustomed to without ever understanding.. without ever questioning why they believe...

ask someone why its wrong for a person to drink.. the most obvious answer u'll get is 'cus it says in the Quran' or 'Islam prohibits it'.. i know people who dont even take medicine for the same reasons.. hideous really

50

Saddzz..it is quite sad that people who live in the west and drink an deat whatever they want have a longer lifespan than those who live in the east under the most pious of conditions. Gives a new meaning to "I hate my life"

51

^ thats a very interesting point Matsui... but dont u think its WHAT they eat that makes the difference... i have noticed that i eat at least double the amount when i go back.. but come back weighing less.. hmm

the problem really isnt with Islamic countries.. if that was the case, Malaysia would be doing just as bad... its more the culture and tradidion that overlap religion and pretty much destroy the main point..

nigthclubs are everywhere... so what if they are now found in lahore/karachi... way before nightclubs... many many years ago when muslim moghuls ruled the land... we had dance parties all over the place.. and they were open to public...

the thing is.. the more the stuff is hidden, the bigger taboo it causes... my opinion

52

Fraudia, you're right.

and i think our morals as a society are declining by the day...and it's always the rich and famous who bring such destruction to a society, it's a proven fact from the study of culture, history, revolution etc. the influentials spend their time, energy, wealth on super luxury things like drugs, alcohol, prostitutes and party their life away cause they have nothng to worry about. the common man wants to have the same luxuries and starts finding ways to satisfy his desires, but then as the cliche goes; 'the common man has enough to worry about basic food and drink' so we can be sure that it's not the commom poor man who could ever be held responsible for corrupting a society. he may follow and spread immorality but he sure can't be the one starting it.

53

Haris

the elite can not be blamed as the cause, the root or the sole pareticipants of the issues that exist. You used drugs as an example. Back in mid-late 80's when drugs burst on teh scene big time in Karachi, the people who were addicted were from very modest backgrounds. the drug problem in the slums and poor communities was horrible.

now as far as common man not starting stuff..i think anyone at any level of society is as capable of starting problems as someone else. The level of influence and the type of influence may vary.

You will not see sectarian riots or ethnic riots in the posh localities..but in the less afluent areas.

54

Irem, do you kow if they play that "choli key peechay kya hai" song. I love that one...

55

i agree with Fraudz that we should not just let go other wrong doings and concentrate on one. This is the most desirable state of fighting evil. However, it is not wise and easy to open fronts at all ends. One has to address few things first before, rather than trying to resolve all the issues in one go...now the question comes, which one to pick first!

56

lahoeria, i suggest that we pick those that have the most impact. those thata re at the root of other problems. it could start from focusing on corruption, cheating, people abusing their power, disregarding other's rights..justice.

57

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
lahoeria, i suggest that we pick those that have the most impact. those thata re at the root of other problems. it could start from focusing on corruption, cheating, people abusing their power, disregarding other's rights..justice.
[/QUOTE]

Fraudz, the issues that you have mentioned are all kind of related to each other...to me the root cause of these issues is "poverty". Those who are poorer than others try to use such short cuts to be on the top, and unfortunately in Pakistan where there is a cut-throat competition even for survival (for a fairly large number of people), these kind of corruptions are very well expected. The need is to stabilize the economy and properly educate people, not only technical knowledge but morality is also needed.

public drinking, prostitution and go wild in the name of "art n culture" is something that we surely can address any time. in my opinion, there is no right time than today to try root off these corruptions out of our society.

atleast, something is better than nothing!

58

Dawn had an article about it a little while ago. It was in one of their "The Review" or "The Magazine" sections and I also heard something on NPR about it. So, I don't doubt that such clubs have sprung up.

The availability of alcohol was a common thing until the Bhutto era, when you didn't need a foreign/Non-Muslim ID to get your hands on alcohol. Afterwards, it all went underground, where you can find the same thing but needed connections. Many rich brats that I went to school with, used to drink often, that was in the 80s when Zia had banned virtually everything. I assume that the current administration's slogan on 'tolerance' & 'acceptance' has encouraged those who were doing business underground to do it a little more publicly.

Anyway, all societies have to make their own decisions on what societal norms they want to enforce. But such decisions should be open to debate and must be made by public support. I certainly do not approve of the idea of religious Zealots going over and banging all such properties in the name of Islam or even encouraging them to do so.

59

Irem, you are in for a big surprise. Where the heck are you living? My dear, true we are brought up in a very protected environment, however everything goes on in our country unabated. Drinking and clubs were the norm in the 70’s . And there are many underground clubs that still exist, getting alchohol isn’t a problem for anyone… whether its those who are characterised as elites or else those who drink ‘kachi sharab’ and die because of that. The only factor is that ‘we’ do not know that such things exist, happen and we like to assume that our society is pristine…
Welcome to the land of the pure… :flower1: