What the Arabs can learn from the Latin Americans

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: What the Arabs can learn from the Latin Americans

You can have your biased view of islam thats your problem not mine.

you claiming democracy is great system? lets dismantle that less than 60 seconds with simple example. They say democracy = rule by the people for the people is utter rubbish lets look at America.

people are ruled by a certain group of influential people, such as the industrialists and corporation Capitalists. These groups have the means to bring whoever they want into the government so that the laws would be serving their interests. That's reality of democracy.

Proof if you need any more is the streets of america today, where the people can see system is not working they not being represented what you going to say now? are these protests from fairy land its in front of your face how you going to refute that?

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Re: What the Arabs can learn from the Latin Americans

its very mischievous of you to not comment on that's guys personal insult

instead you focused on my reply maybe that's what they teach you in India to be dishonest with your replies?

people can believe in what they want doesn't bother me.

If you want to get into a debate about belief lets do that I say Hinduism if a false religion prove to me its the truth?

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Re: What the Arabs can learn from the Latin Americans

So, are khalifas on a term limit or are they elected for life?

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Re: What the Arabs can learn from the Latin Americans

if you say it is a false religion, why should I care? you are nothing in front of it so all I have to say or do is smile, enjoy your cute foolishness and hope one day reality dawns on you too. But please, why turn this to a religious argument? I have a lot of respect for all religions including yours and as long as even one person has faith in it, no religion is false.

can you get back on topic and not give in to prejudice.

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Re: What the Arabs can learn from the Latin Americans

you are mixing up authority and tyranny. When you are a kid your dad had authority over you. When you are in school your teacher, when you are in a job your boss, when you are in the street the civic lawmen and so on. That is natural regardless of what system you are in.

Tyranny is when systemantically and legally people do not have rights except at the will and pleasure of the tyrant. As you eloquently pointed out, in a democracy if people don't liek something they protest. What do you think will be the fate of protestors in a caliphate?

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Re: What the Arabs can learn from the Latin Americans

Seriously Captain, I thought you could do better. The poster takes a failed example and highlights that as the only example available for democracy.

All things said and done, in this modern age democracy is the best of all the systems that we currently have. If there was a better system, implement it and show it. Do you have a good example of an alternative to democracy. Do not give me examples of something that was in existence centuries ago. If there was a better system why is it not implementable. Do not give excuses that some country is controlling and all that...

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Re: What the Arabs can learn from the Latin Americans

Tunsia, Egypt and Libya proves that the Taliban are not the only alternative for an Islamic democracy. Anybody who thinks otherwise is delusional.

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Re: What the Arabs can learn from the Latin Americans

so you still do not accept your original dishonest answer and not speaking in what context it was made? no problem i am not surprised.

You stated "if person has faith then no religion is false"

This is the another flaw of secularist ideas there is no right or wrong and that is why chaos will ensue.

Is homosexuality right or wrong? is ethunasia right or wrong? is banning of the burqa right or wrong?

You have no definite set of principles, you have groups fighting for both sides of the argument and as a result society ends up in chaos because these questions are never answered is it any wonder the people are confused.

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Re: What the Arabs can learn from the Latin Americans

You failed to answer the one of the fundamental flaws of democracy and that it is the elites who decides the laws in their favour why you refused to answer this point?

is it because you don't have the guts to admit my statement was true?

Instead you try a diversion of we have laws and we obey!

The occupy protestors are protesting against the very system you are promoting so you kinda contradicted yourself there. They are not being represented that is the point, and with corporations and the industrialists running the show that not going to change any time soon.

The protestors by the way are not beng treated well they are being sprayed with pepper gas beaten with sticks and arrested on mass something you conveniently didn't mention.

In a caliphate i cannot give a hypothetical answer and make statement about something happening in the future. But i will quote this from prophet(saw) “The best Jihad is to speak the truth before a tyrant ruler.” (Bukhari)

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Re: What the Arabs can learn from the Latin Americans

nothing dishonest about my answer. you just don't get it.

The principles are freedom, morality and respect for the individual. A slight variation you might have head of is 'liberty equality fraternity.

Suggest you try and understand what these mean before getting all worked up.

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Re: What the Arabs can learn from the Latin Americans

You lack facts and you lack understanding. Until you fix these things you will continue to fail in whatever it is you are trying to say.

the OWS is not protesting democracy. They are protesting wall street.

I expect law enforcement to regulate and when the crimes are committed, to deal with it. It is called crowd control and maintenance of law & order.

I don't expect you to answer anything, let alone any hypothesis or about future. First you have to get some facts and develop the ability to understand atleast the past and present.

Bukharri's statement aside, caliphate was a miserable failure for a reason. It's not around because it was rejected. Democracy otoh is being sought after by more and more countries.

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Re: What the Arabs can learn from the Latin Americans

What a whitewash you call brutal police behaviour as crowd control, you the type of individual who calls massacres of iraqi civillians as collatral damage!

Its pretty clear you are an American apologist for every crime they commit even if its massacres and illegal occupation of land.

Regarding the swiss cheese idea of democracy you failed to answer one point from the brother about elites and corporations owning democracy why?

here are some more democracy contradictions and failures which you will no doubt fail to answer using the American political model as the example.

-lobbyists where paid $3.2 billion in 2008 by special interests how is this not corruption in demcoracy?

-40 million people living in poverty in America the richest country in the world and you say this best system?

-Unemployment amount of black people unemployed is twice that of white people, what a great system! racism alive and well how do you explain this disparity?

-1.1 trillion dollars spent on war by this so called great democracy if they really wanted to make a statement they could end poverty in the world with a small percentage of this amount.

-$14 trillion dollars in debt not including derivatives debt which is hundred times worse how is this democractic capitalist model you raving about going to solve this problem?

-12 million crimes every year in this democratic capitalist model, 2 million people in prison, over 100,000 rapes yearly, half a million robberies, 17,000 murders yearly and so on and so on.

great system you want us to have in the muslim world thanks but no thanks!

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Re: What the Arabs can learn from the Latin Americans

Great examples. Egypt --- Leader is kicked out...
Libya- Leader is kicked out and killed in cold blood.

Hope you know what delusional means...

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Re: What the Arabs can learn from the Latin Americans

Khilafat is meant for muslims so i dont see any point "Others" talking about it.
If u talk about abuse of powers If u r A muslim with sound knowledge of islam u can take on any maulvi if he is on a wrong side.Muslims in this forum will agree with me that with knowledge of any single islamic book we r ready to fight any maulvi.
Islam is not like judaism or christianity where pope and rabbi have power to decide halaal and haram.
Tell me do u find followers of any other religion discussing so many topics related to their religion?
And worshiping "KABA"stone we dont worship it.
In khilafat muslims have filed cases against khulafas.Now tell me in which society at that time people have so much power.
and we dont need legislator while we have shariat.we just need administrators.

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Re: What the Arabs can learn from the Latin Americans

So what would expect? Fly them first class to the US so they can live out their lives in peace and harmony and not be held accountable for their crimes. But the question is what does this have to do with Islam and democracy?

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Re: What the Arabs can learn from the Latin Americans

@javedmiandad - you are simply WRONG on everyone of these points. BTW I am not an American apologist - I am a very proud American of Indian origin and while there are specific mistakes that America and India have both committed for which I will have no qualms apologizing for, they (India and USA) are both far far ahead in terms of fair play.

  • removing trespassers from occupying private property is not police brutality. It is rule of law & civilization.
  • what land has USA occupied illegally? name them before I can respond!
  • corporations & elites do not own democracy. what makes you think that other than blind hatred?
  • lobbyists - it is a legal & regulated industry. wouldn't you expect to get paid for your work?
  • 40 million in poverty - you should really look up how America defines poverty. It is a 'relative income level' threshold, relative to median income - meaning there will always be a lower income band recognized as relatively poor - so that there is a constant upward pull AND grant dollars are appropriately disseminated. I think the current threshold is over 22K! Meaning the definition of poverty is NOT people lacking any necessity!!! would suggest what the numbers mean before you abuse them in future!
  • unemployment rate higher amongst blacks - yes, but why do you associate that with racism? explain your connection. there are other reasons - education, lack of family structure & support are more prevalent reasons.
  • 1.1T spent on war - yeah! someone has to fix those damned terrorists & tyrants who gas citizen. I didn't hear Pakistanis objecting to this spend until USA woke up to the ISI double-cross! ( I actually think USA should stop entering these wars for some time until economy gets better, but that is a different. Coming from a Pakistani now is sheer hypocrisy)
  • 14T debt - why do you think the debt was incurred? too much spending. Spending on what? on welfare programs & wars. How else do you think those 'unemployed blacks' you refer to survive? they are provided welfare in terms of free food, clothing, shelter, education ... even entertainment! Not just blacks - anybody! 12m crimes .... show me which large country does not have a large crime problem? Pakistan you think?
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Re: What the Arabs can learn from the Latin Americans

Fly them economy to Afghanistan so that they would actually know what life is...

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Re: What the Arabs can learn from the Latin Americans

Then why is'nt there a single country which enforces shariat.

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Re: What the Arabs can learn from the Latin Americans

minor typo - one o was missing.

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Re: What the Arabs can learn from the Latin Americans

Now I understand finally. The reason you are never confused is you have all the answers. Life must be very simple - I am jealous