Re: What should Pakistani laws be based on?
I have no clue what you are saying madam...
Re: What should Pakistani laws be based on?
i think
pakistani laws= GOOD
+
pakistan courts= not good
--> social and economics injustice---> pakistanese migrating to other countries
is it clear now?
Re: What should Pakistani laws be based on?
pakistanese?
Lack of higher education -> SOME pakistani migrating to other countries (in particular the US, since its the baadsha of education)
So what do you think about pakistani bhai log?
Re: What should Pakistani laws be based on?
baad= bad in persian:D:D:D…you really mean US is bad in education:halo:…that’s why they can’t place countries name on a map 
…
i think pakistani bhai log are nice people…especially the one wise enough to know that grass only SEEMS greener on the other side:halo:
Re: What should Pakistani laws be based on?
Paris aunty, its a well known fact that most Pakistanis dont even look at france when they go for higher education. I mean I dont even remember anyone giving a thought to france, when they rejected most european countries.
Btw, me aap ko persian lag raha hoon? Baadsha -> King The country of stanford, caltech, yale, i can go on and on and on
Re: What should Pakistani laws be based on?
people can study wherever they want:D… as long as i don’t have to do their homework 
why is it that american are so paindoos…while they have so many nice uni???:halo:
Re: What should Pakistani laws be based on?
Maybe they arent paindus, maybe you are the paindu who is prejudiced, which seems like the case. You should look beyond pashtunistan and paris, maybe that would work wonders. Dont hate someone because they are superior, that helps.
Re: What should Pakistani laws be based on?
That is incorrect. They were implementing what their Wahabi (Arab brand Islam) and Deobandi (Hindustani brand Islam) ideological grandpas were telling them. Long time ago this Syed Ahmad Barelvi had come from Hindustan to impose his brand of Sharia but was kicked in the ass.
Re: What should Pakistani laws be based on?
why looking where evil is when you can stay in paradise..i’d be foolish to follow your advice:clown:. i don’t hate those who are superior to me..ie. phd holder, islamic scholars, people speaking ten languages, etc…i respect them and admire them.
BUT how can I admire basic americans when i know their school system is so freaking bad that a guy raised in france, and going to french school became the best student of the new york state as soon as he came back to USA? he was not even more intelligent than me (actually my best friend and i had better grade than him when he was in my class:D)…
i reckon americans going to uni are well educated…but others:(…unfortunately those who can’t afford uni are not helped by school to become smart…but just coach potatoes who will blindly trust fox news:(…i pity them, i know it’s not fair…cause school should give the basic education to everyone to become a nice person
Re: What should Pakistani laws be based on?
There is little difference between wahabis and deobandis some even consider them same that is one who follows wahabi ideology in india is following the deoband school.
barevli school is different from deoband with differences on milad,naats,prophet had a shadow or not or was he noor or bashar etc etc
basically they all are sunni and agree on the basics of sunnism.any way i dont know what kind of islam afghanis used to follow before them and what was their “brand” of shariah
shah ahmed barelvi is a respected aalim e deen.
P.S
I dont think common sunnis follow ideologies in our part of world.they have influences some have arab others might have influences from persia some from india.shias have their rehbars in pakistan you will find shias following sistani(iraq) or khamenei(iran)everyone agrees on one fact that is following quran and sunnah.
Re: What should Pakistani laws be based on?
You are correcto! Americans are relatively more rural, and more conservative compared to the French people of the major cities. But the French rural area, especially their barns, and farms are much smaller but very similar to their American and Pakistani counterparts. So you may be comparing French cities with US rural areas. That is not a good thing.
French should also remember who bails them out everytime some whacko takes over Paris. This should be especially important for someone who is noor from Paris.
French system of education is heavily tilted towards Mathematics with really tough admission standards. Especially École Polytechnique is the Grande école that provides education and training to senior civil servants, is realy hard to get in even for French students.
However French society is not as open as American and their economy is puny compared the the US. The language also acts as barriar for Pakistani students. The result is that Pakistanis mostly end up going to US, UK, and Australia.
French system is beaten hands down by American higher education system, the free market, and the coroporate interaction at schools such as MIT, UC Berkley, and Stanford.
Re: What should Pakistani laws be based on?
Oh Baboo! There is no differece between Wahabis and Brailvi people either. The problem is with the bearded leader hazrat. They are the one who make it black and white, where anyone not following them is Kafir. No Bailvi leader would willingly pray in a Wahabi mosque and vise versa.
So there is no need to gloss over the religious whacko-ism. Problem with Wahabis is that they now have gotten under the fully demonic influence of Saudis and Egyptians. Hence we see suicide bombing attacks in Karachi and even Frontier where bunch of Shias were killed.
It is the Arab influenced Wahabi movement that has to be crushed out of Pakistani society.
Re: What should Pakistani laws be based on?
It’s sad that you are so clueless about what type of Islam your own people follow, let alone what others follow. The problem is not Deobandis, Wahabis, or Barelvis it is the jihalat mindset.
Re: What should Pakistani laws be based on?
I know my people better than you, so please keep your Karachi-brand insights to yourself. That Syed Ahmad Barelvi had come to my land and my people had accepted him merely as a symbol of unity in the face of the Sikh threat with the tacit understanding that he wouldn't disturb the balance of power between clans and tribes and wouldn't aspire for a role greater than that of an arbitrator. But he committed two blunders; the one that he ordered the locals to give their daughters/sisters in marriage to the Hindustani Mujahideen that had come with him; and the other that he tried to impose his brand of Islam on locals. So he was kicked out in the ass (form of Islam more than rituals like fasting was and still to an extent alien to our people...generally they even didn't know how to say prayers before the invasion of this Hindustani brand Islam...fasting was observed because it was a matter of "ghairat" and a demonstration of physical endurance so valued by my people and culture...).
This doesn't mean my people weren't or are not conservative. But that conservatism was/is in rural and tribal sense not religious sense. No body in my society is allowed to impose anything on another person be that Islam and sharia. In Afghanistan, Taleban, even in their haydays, couldn't dare impose purdah on the women of Pashtun nomads. Ministry of virtue and vices was not a Pashtun concept; it was a concept borrowed from Hindustani brand Islam. Keeping beard is a personal matter and no Pashtun can ask another Pashtun to keep it or shave it off. Similarly, no Pashtun can force another Pashtun to say or not to say prayers. Equality, liberty (even from brother) and balance of power are the basic principles around which the structure of our society has been woven.
Pan Islamism, political Islam, ideological Islam, and Jehadi Islam took birth on the fertile land of Hindustan and it provided and is still providing a justification for the state of Pakistan. It is fanning Islamic radicalism the world over. There are many facets of it like Tabligh, Maududiath, Deobandiath, Ahrar, Khaksar, (and you name it ) etc. all born in Hidustan.
The circumstances in which Taleban arose were different; first there was complete social and political fragmentation due to protracted war; second that the liberal Afghan/Pashtun leadership had either been exterminated or forced to flee to the West thanks the ulterior agenda of the neighboring countries; and third that my people were locked into a power struggle with Nortern Alliance. Also Taleban were foreign imposition and took their inspiration from spiritual and ideological centers elsewhere. Deoband is a place in Hindustan Mr. and Taleban tried to implement Deobandi-Wahabi brand Islam.
Re: What should Pakistani laws be based on?
Coming back to the point, laws must be completely secular. There is no need for metaphysics and divinity. Gone are the days of superstition and irrationality. There are one thousand mutually inconsistant and hostile interpretations of religion and bringing in divinity in civic matters will be disastrous.
No to theocratic laws.
Re: What should Pakistani laws be based on?
:Das marriage is purely divine do you think about making it illegal:confused:
come on…even very anti religious people like the french have some obvious religious laws…no society can have only “civic” laws..because religion is part of the society…and laws must reflect the sciety;)
Re: What should Pakistani laws be based on?
fasting is alien to afghan culture???I know pakhtoons of karachi who are religious even fast in the month of rajab and shaban as well.They not only follow the fard ibadah many of them follow sunnah and nafil ibabadah as well and I think we all muslims should be proud of these guys.
pakhtoons just like other ethnicities cannot have same beliefs and ideologies.some are nationalist others are towards islam.
antiobl
bhai saab if you ask a common man he at best would tell you some differences between shias and sunnis. but it will be difficult for him to point out differences between various sects.when a common muslim enters a masjid to pray he wont ask that is it a deobandi or barelvi mosque samjhay aap.thats what i was saying majority tries to follow quran and sunnah
Re: What should Pakistani laws be based on?
I'm afraid Mr. Dino that you are once again falling into the trap of selective history due to your ethnic compulsions. First of all, nothing can be imposed on a free thinking people unless they are already willing to be manipulated by others. Considering all the historical anecdotes on the "fierce independence" of Pashtuns, especially the tribals, it is a case revisionist history to suggest that a handful of Hindustanis could change the culture and ethos of Pashtuns so much in such a short time. The location of Deoband is immaterial since today there is no Taliban movement in Deoband, India, nor ever was but there is one in Kandahar and Waziristan, the heartland of Pashtuns. The Islam of Deoband is very much different then that of even Lahore or Karachi, let alone Peshawar or Quetta. You are free to visit the madrassah at Deoband and see for yourself how different their approach is.
I know it helps your self esteem to blame the recent troubles of Pashtuns on outsiders, but that doesn't make it true. There are Urdu speaking people who are fundamentalist, but by and large, the Urdu speaking masses have not taken their message to heart. Today it is the tribals who want Taliban rule and it is people like Qazi Hussian, Fazlur Rehman, Sami ul Haq who are biggest promoters of Islamism in Pakistan. Pashtuns were always conservative as you say and it was the Afghan war/jihad that further radicalized not any particular Mullah or brand of Islam. Wahabisim and Deobandism have become a buzz word among some Western commentators who over simply things and try to blame ideologies within Islam for all the trouble. But this is not the ground reality for Taliban radicalism since there belief system was influenced more by tribal traditions of southern Afghanistan then from any particular ideology, even the extremist version of Wahabism.
The mandatory beards, burqas, strict segregation of women are taken directly from Pashtun culture, as well as the culture of guns and violence based on notions of so-called "ghairat". You will not find Urdu speaking carrying guns around in Deoband or Karachi (ok, except during lawless days of 90’s but that was political and guns interestingly came from Afghanistan), nor will too many of them have beards. Nor will any Urdu speaking person protect someone like Osama due to Pushtunwali code. And if some mullah from Karachi did educate some Pashtuns on how to read prayers, I consider this to be a good thing done in good faith. Again, you are free to believe what you want, but your naive notion that Pashtuns are secular Muslims somehow, flies in the face of reality.
And I am not saying here that mohajirs are secluar Muslims since I don't believe in fantasies. But our Muslim nationalism that gave birth to Pakistan is very different from Muslim fundamentalism of Maududi etc., whose followers, as you may know opposed Pakistan much like Pashtun nationalists, but for somewhat different reasons.
Re: What should Pakistani laws be based on?
Marriage is very much a worldly thing done to cater to the needs of individuals and society (individuals have biological, psychological, and social needs…sex, self-preservation, and social-interdependence…also the needs of the helpless babies. Society has its own stake in the institution of marriage i.e. the children should get preliminary training in the values, norms, and world-view of the society from parents…and the demographic strength of the society must not fall a certain threshold level otherwise the existence of the whole society will be endangered…). I don’t think there is any thing divine about marriage…Religion just puts a stamp on the marriage contract and gives it sanctity and makes it formal…This is just putting psychological responsibility on the partners with regard to the needs of partners, children, and society…But remember, a court can also formalize a marriage contract…
Imagine, if human cloning succeeds, what would happen to marrige…
In modern times, as the state gets stronger to give security and sustenance to individuals, individualism increases and institution of marriage becomes weaker…
However, I am not against religion if it operates only at sub-social level (e.g. within family to hold it together till needed). But it must not have a role at the super-structural level (e.g. to decide as in whom would lie the sovereignty or political authority, etc…).
Re: What should Pakistani laws be based on?
Pakistan has Islamic laws question is the implementation of laws in which our govt has totally failed.