The question isn't who and what type of khalifa we should have?
its more like why don't we consider the respective heads of states of muslim states today as khalifahs anymore?
will anyone like to talk on this?
anybody who is a self-professed muslim leader, enjoying the majority vote of muslims in any muslim country, is NOT a khalifah?
why should there be one khalifah of the whole muslim world?
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its more like why don't we consider the respective heads of states of muslim states today as khalifahs anymore?
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Anymore?
We never accepted that in the past. The Khalifah is the ruler of the whooole Ummah. He is responsible for it all.
The Khalifah appoints 'Ameers in places who he wants to be charge of and take responsibility for that specific people and towns. The overall responsibility of the whole Ummah is for the Khalifah. And he should fear Allaah for the Ummah and how he treats them like 'Umar ibn al-Khattab feared.
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anybody who is a self-professed muslim leader, enjoying the majority vote of muslims in any muslim country, is NOT a khalifah?
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There are no Muslim leaders today. There are Apostate Mushrikeen leaders today though in our Countries. And no-one can be a Khalifah just because he has a State or land and is implementing the Sharee'ah. He has to fulfil the conditions of a Khalifah.
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why should there be one khalifah of the whole muslim world?
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Simple. It is the Sunnah. Finish. That's it.
But, obviously one can see the wisdom behind this. I mean, come on, if there was more than one man in charge of the Ummah, they would be fighting for power. There can only be one Imam for the Ummah.
As-Salaamu 'Alaykum sokoon.
Are you a brother or sister (if you don't mind me asking)?
Wasalaam
sokoon is a sister.
Anyway this topic was kind of discussed here
http://www.gupistan.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=145343&perpage=30
Also from this link The Muslim Khilafa
He must be from the tribe of Quraish because they used to be the leading tribe, the majority. The Prophet has said, “The Khalifas are Quraishi.” However, many Muslim scholars have commented on this prerequisite. Al-Mawardi has written that the Khalifa should be Quraishi based on the saying of Abu Bakr that the Khalifas are Quraishi and their ministers are non-Quraishi. The majority of scholars are of this opinion. Other scholars have arrived at a different conclusion. Abu Bakr Al-Baqlani has said that the leader of the Muslims simply should be from the majority. Muhammad Riya-Ad-Deen and Abu Hanifa wrote that the leader must come from the majority to make it easy to follow him.
Also I found this hadith, *
Sahih Bukhari, Judgments (Ahkaam)
Volume 9, Book 89, Number 256:
Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah’s Apostle said, “You should listen to and obey, your ruler even if he was an** Ethiopian (black) slave** whose head looks like a raisin.” *
Commentary: Nobody pays respect to a slave, with a black complexion and small head at that. But the Hadith brings such a man in focus to emphasize that obedience to a ruler is inescapable. The only condition is that his governance should be confined to the Shari`ah framework without reference to his geographical, tribal and ethnic background.
commentary of this hadith from link
I think this shows that the person does not necessarily have to be from the Quraysh, although undoubtedly it is to be preferred if all the other conditions are met by someone.
Most muslims at the time did accept the Ottomans as a Caliphate.
^ this is correct the khalifah does'nt have to be from the quraysh as many scholars have indicated so this condition is not a fard condition.
If you look at the previous 20 khalifhs they where not from quraysh.
Does this make them invalid obviously not.
Dear Readers,
Salaams,
I have heard that we had four renowned khalifatul muslemin.
And they are called as Rashedine.
How come you have given such a big list? In this big list , the sequence of kholafas had been broken many times; it means it clear that there was some thing wrong was going on in selection or election. Therefore is not this we would only talk about khalifa #5 now; as he should be the Khalifa of whole muslim ummah, not DEHRH EINT KEY MASJID.
I think first of all the khalifa should be among rashedine.
And a Rashid can be from any ummah.He can be Asian, He can be an Arab, He can be even European from Bosnia or any other european country,or from African country.Why shall you restrict it to be quraesh?
The person should be Quraesh even if is not ------say legitimate?
I think a person should be qualified enough to be Khalifa, what I have understood from replies of all of you in general.
But I guess that a person must be legitimate, and can be from any muslim country.
He must be good in knowledge, which includes religious and technical.
The person should have some spiritual significance too.
Person should have qualities to be just, and should be able to do justice.
It means the person should be qualified in Islamic laws in detail.
Person must know at least a few languages, otherwise if there would have been ever defective translation he would never be able to cross the message correctly.
Also I would like to know at what minimum age a person can be Khalifa?
Bye Sokoon
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*Originally posted by At-Tawheed: *
.....we can track down who is Qurayshee or not etc. ....
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Well my Pak friends tell me that they know it already. Most of the Merasee families are actually Quray-shee-shee.
Based on Toe-head's explanation, Now we are looking for Quray-She Khalifay. Oh those are the barbers with very melodius voice and good Tubla skills.
So bud! Good qureshi khalifay are the ones who shave your armpits while singing "Sahnoo Nehr walay pul tay bulakay, Mullah-Tullah kithay reh gia (sorry my Urdu spellings are no good).
case closed.
time to kick some Araab terrorist A$$$
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Originally posted by At-Tawheed: *
*As-Salaamu 'Alaykum sokoon.
Are you a brother or sister (if you don't mind me asking)?
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Don't tell him Sokoon. Mullah-tullah's Phophee will soon come over for rishta.
Time to kick some Araab terrorist's A$$$
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Time to kick some Araab terrorist's A$$$
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go ahead brother what r u waiting for? u have been saying this for a long time now brother. are u going to film this when u do it? if u do pls upload it here so we can all watch it and c how u kick some arab terrorists as u call them. regarding the khalif being from quraish the correct opinion is that this is a obligatory conditon but if someone takes the role of khalif by force and he is not from quraish then we shud not rebel agianst him as long as he is muslim and not commiting kuff we shud give him his rights and Allah knows best
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*Originally posted by Ansaaree: *
go ahead brother what r u waiting for? .... ....
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Brave and professional soldiers are already doing a mighty fine job on eliminating the beardos. I'll be there when they call me for help.
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*Originally posted by Ansaaree: *
..... u have been saying this for a long time now brother. ....
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Sorry! me no "Barather" of some beardo.
Re: Antiobl & Ansaaree
Hi!
If you are against these Khulafas Government; then from where Islam would spread in our country. Since you do not do favour to open any such door from khilafatul momineen, as head of muslim ummah.
I guess you all think the khalifa should be an Arab, where as God has not put any such restrictions. Bye Sokoon
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*Originally posted by armughal: *
^
suggesting a shiaa khalifa is wrong because u r talking of a minority....
and we need atleast a majority to approve of the khalifa....
a 100% approval will never be possible but we try to get the most number of votes for one guy and looking in the minorities wont achieve that....
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Isn’t it a democracy in which you vote for somebody and then count those votes? Are not these present time democratic states examples of your concept of khalafat but these all are using some other name for the head of state.
What about your majority; isn’t it the same thing we discussed couple of weeks ago. Isn’t it further sub-divided into many groups? and this sub division makes many more minorities and why not you apply the same theory of "the most number of votes for one guy" then. I think you got my point; and don’t need any example to explain more.
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*Originally posted by ak47: *
This is not a definte condition is a preferable but a not a fard conditon.
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For most of the people the whole concept of Khalafat is not “fardh” – you just talking about the condition of Quraysh
Question: What is the true meaning of Khalifa
(1) leader
(2) king
(3) ruler
(4) imam
(5) successor
(6) the one who come after someone
(7) Elected one
(8) Selected one
(9) Nominated one
(10) Appointed one
(11) Must be in power?
(12) Necessary for people to accept him
(13) If people don’t accept him; who is in fault? People or khalifa.
(14) Can someone evil snatch the title from him?
First find out the correct meaning; if would help you to discuss in a better way.
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*Originally posted by inuit: *
For most of the people the whole concept of Khalafat is not “fardh” – you just talking about the condition of Quraysh
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Khilafah is defiently fard, only people who have no knowledge of islamic politics will say it not a fard.
Second point voting is a different concept than democracy.
Democracy you are voting for a man made system
Islam you do not vote for a man made system.
Voting is a tool whereby you vote for someobody or an action.
Khalifah is does'nt matter if you call it amir, ruler it has similar menaing. the other like king etc is not correct definition because king,queen monarchy etc is not a concept accepted in islam
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*Originally posted by ak47: *
Khilafah is defiently fard, only people who have no knowledge of islamic politics will say it not a fard.
Second point voting is a different concept than democracy.
Democracy you are voting for a man made system
Islam you do not vote for a man made system.
Voting is a tool whereby you vote for someobody or an action.
Khalifah is does'nt matter if you call it amir, ruler it has similar menaing. the other like king etc is not correct definition because king,queen monarchy etc is not a concept accepted in islam
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Please explain more! What this “Fard” is?
(a) Is it ”fard” on Ummah to establish Khalafat?
(b) Is it “fard” on a Muslim to obey/follow and strengthen Khalifa?
(c) Or it is “fard” on a Muslim to just believe in the concept of Khalafat in Islam.
(d) What is the degree /level/ importance of that “fard”. If somebody don’t do it? Then what?
Please explain the statement more “Second point voting is a different concept than democracy.”. You mean Voting and Democracy are two different things.
Is not in democracy; voter has a freedom of choice and in Islam a voter does not have this freedom and he can’t go against the will of Islamic system.
In other words if somebody wins with majority and you see he is not following Islam you can struggle against him and remove him. So where is democracy in Islam?
What I think it’s a religious monarchy in which one person (Khalifa) or “Shurah” (group of people) has more rights to decide following Islamic System even if it is against the will and wish of public. These conditions are somehow somewhat in other kinds of democratic systems also. The ruling party can not make any decision which goes against the state’s law even if it is the wish of majority of people. Isn’t it?
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*Originally posted by inuit: *
Please explain more! What this “Fard” is?
(a) Is it ”fard” on Ummah to establish Khalafat?
(b) Is it “fard” on a Muslim to obey/follow and strengthen Khalifa?
(c) Or it is “fard” on a Muslim to just believe in the concept of Khalafat in Islam.
(d) What is the degree /level/ importance of that “fard”. If somebody don’t do it? Then what?
Please explain the statement more “Second point voting is a different concept than democracy.”. You mean Voting and Democracy are two different things.
Is not in democracy; voter has a freedom of choice and in Islam a voter does not have this freedom and he can’t go against the will of Islamic system.
In other words if somebody wins with majority and you see he is not following Islam you can struggle against him and remove him. So where is democracy in Islam?
What I think it’s a religious monarchy in which one person (Khalifa) or “Shurah” (group of people) has more rights to decide following Islamic System even if it is against the will and wish of public. These conditions are somehow somewhat in other kinds of democratic systems also. The ruling party can not make any decision which goes against the state’s law even if it is the wish of majority of people. Isn’t it?
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first point establishing the khilafah is fard kifyah (collective duty) upon Muslims,however all of them are in sin if they do not fulfil this.
Second point i thought i made it clear before but i think not clear enough. Democracy is bankrupt system which has no place in islam, i hope this point is clear. It has no relation whatsoever to islam and islam is not democracy and democracy is not islam inshallah i hope this is clear also.
Voting is simply a tool to vote for something it is not a system i.e you have 3 candidates as leader they have to be muslim and have qualities of a leader i.e muslim, sane, just, mature etc and you simply vote for one of these candidates.
You mentioned monarchy islam does not recognize monarchy i also mentioned this previously in my post. The islamic state actions have to be based on islam alone if they act in another manner then they have to be corrected.
There are no political parties in charge of islamic state. Political groups are permitted to keep leadership in check and also to debate, but they have no hand in the leadership.
Your final point is correct the Islamic state cannot make a ruling which is not based on islam this is very clear to any muslim.
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*Originally posted by ak47: *
^ this is correct the khalifah does'nt have to be from the quraysh as many scholars have indicated so this condition is not a fard condition.
If you look at the previous 20 khalifhs they where not from quraysh.
Does this make them invalid obviously not.
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*Originally posted by ak47: *
You mentioned monarchy islam does not recognize monarchy i also mentioned this previously in my post. The islamic state actions have to be based on islam alone if they act in another manner then they have to be corrected.
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You accepted the 20 Ottoman Caliphs, but then say Islam does not recognise monarchy. Notice the difference here.
Re: AK 47
Hi!!
You are right that Having Khalifatul muslemin is a collective responsibility.
But why are you against election for that. ???
I think we have 124,000 umbeyas
The last is prophet Mohammed (pbuh)
We have four Khulafaei Rasheeda (MUTAFIQ ELAHE)
The last is Hazrat Ali
When we follow the directions of our last prophet and we do not go for following the previous ambeyas in total xxxxxxx/123,999
In a way we consider their AHKAMS as old calls.
Same way we very easily can follow the AHKAM of Last Khalifa ALi
In the same way as we follow the last prophet's saying and not the ones before him.
So ALI'S KHILAFAT came into existance after election. So I think election is the correct and religious method to appoint a khalifatul muslamin. Why shall not we think this way as follows:
Suppose I have invited you at 5pm for party.
Then later I phone call you and say ,that party is 9pm, so please come at 9pm
Which one of the two invitation you would follow?
If you would follow the first one ; you would be considered crazy. OR you would speak lie I did not receive the new message.
But if you are senseable, truthful, honest, and have straight thinking you would come at 9pm. Also if some of your close friend would phone you or ask you or would say that party is at 5pm, you would inform him very authentically ;saying I have received a message from ---sokoon the party is at 9pm.
I think election is the most appropriate method to select a khalifatul muslameen.
We just have one problem; that from where we would bring a person like you have mentioned a SANE.
We would very easily get a ---What do you think? Bye Sokoon
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*Originally posted by ak47: *
Voting is simply a tool to vote for something it is not a system i.e you have 3 candidates as leader they have to be muslim and have qualities of a leader i.e muslim, sane, just, mature etc and you simply vote for one of these candidates.
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What else democracy is: There are 2, 3, 4 or even 5 candidates for the leadership, who meet certain conditions like they are citizen, there should not be any allegation against them for crime, Mature (mean certain age), loyal, certain education and you simply vote for one of these candidates.