in marriage and life that are NOT also mandated in other religions?
haq meher
uff...
ok..the right to own properity..something christian women have only gained in the 20th century
the right to vote
the right to keep their name after marriage
the right to keep their money and economic independence WHILE their husband still supports them
sexual satisfaction
In Islam women were given the right to do good/bad and be judged for it and rewarded...while christianity was still voting if women had souls.
anything else?
The following is an interview with Qazi of the Jamaat in Pakistan - A main leader of fundamentalists. This interview was published in February 1999 issue of "Jamhooria Islamia" a monthly Baluchi magazine published from Panj-gar.
Below is an excerpt from that interview. I suggest you frame a copy of this and keep it on your desk; more important - Good Luck to you in your endeavours.
Q: The women issue is very controversial nowadays. Taliban and some fundamentalist organizations restrict the freedom of women. While some progressive Muslim intellectuals are insisting that the women are equal to men in all spheres.What are Qazi's views on women?
A: As I said earlier, the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH)'s views on women are the exact views of Qazi.
Equality of men and women is stupidity. What men can do, women cannot do and what women can do, men cannot do. Women are weak physically and mentally compared to men. For this we do not need any proof other than to just look at men and women. Men have to take care of women all the time. If some women do not have any male relatives, then they have to find a man and marry him so that he will take care of her.
Women should not have life outside the family. Education can be provided to them but not to compete with men in public. Neither they can fight in war nor they can be of use in peacetime politics.
Qazi had said once that JI comes to power in Pakistan, he will abolish the voting rights of women and minorities.
Only the Muslim men can participate in voting or standing for elections. When I asked the proof from Hadiths, he had
quoted many Hadiths in support of that. I asked him why is that it is never talked openly in the public by Jamaat.
Qazi had said that the hints are all over the place. But JI did not make it a big issue since the women who currently
have the voting may vote against JI in the elections if such a thing is said openly- for this I was against. I
In my opinion, since all the main leaders of Jamaat believes that women will not have voting rights after they come to power, they should openly say that. If you do not say now and then you remove the voting rights later when you come to power,that is going to build a resentment among the people. But Qazi was firmly of the opinion that JI should not say that now.
[This message has been edited by faceup (edited February 02, 2000).]
If it is ok with you, your husband can marry another woman, and if ok with her and you together, he can bring one more, and if ok with the 3 of you, there is room for yet one more.
But I guess that right is only for Men, although women do have some say in it.
Other religions do not have this right conferred to their women followers.
NYA,
Islam does not say that you should have 4 wives but it says that you can only have 4 wives. This is not like giving permission to have 4 wives actaully it's enforcing a limit not to have more than 4 wives. Tell me the truth how many of you wants to have more than one wife.
And about other religions, please let me know if any other religions gives any rights to their women. I want to know the religious laws not the local laws.
Dear Johnd, I can understand your point. My problem is that why even have such a Law. I agree that nowadays, noone in his right mind will have 4 wives. In terms of comparing what rights Islam has sanctioned to women vs. other religions, it is a useless exercise. By making such comparison the only thing one digs out is dirt.
If women are given equal rights (those given to a man) under Islam, there should be no need to compare what other religions have in store for women. If the intention is to adopt some other Laws to make Islamic laws more “user friendly”, than one can say that such a comparison is a good idea. But most Muslims resist the idea of change when it comes of modifying laws.
NYAhmadi,
And actually, although I do agree with the spirit of your post, men are only supposed to have more than one wife if women seriously outnumber men, as would be the case after a war, when there are many widows. Since we don't really have this situation now, there is no justification for plural marriage.
Shakir 4:3
And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course.
Zara
Interesting!
When we have the real situation in front of our eyes - where the women & girls, in muslim societies that enforce Fundamentalist Islam, are suffocating; and, here we have defenders of the 'status quo' coming out in its defense speaking gloriously about status of women in Islam - where are those womens?
Folks, Islam does not treat women equally! If it did, we would have women in the Taliban Govt. Stop deluding yourself, Qazi Ahmed of the Jama'at comes close to the treatment and position of women under fundamentalist Islam. Kindly refer to the article that I posted above.
Faceup. You're right, Muslim women are not treated equally. BUT, the things that are being done to them are actually not a part of Islam, they are traditions from the dark ages, and some newly invented, even more dark traditions. Do you really think Taliban is based on Islam?
Zara
kashmirigirl!!! here is a good site for women rights in islam:
“http://www.jamaat.org/islam/WomanIslam.html”
as for faceup I don’t have words to say what the hell he is saying about jamaat-e- islami!!!
some scripts for readers from the jamaat-e-islami’s page about women!!! and faceup please do read it, it is for u!!!
The Muslim woman is accorded full spiritual and intellectual equality with man, and is encouraged to practice her religion and develop her intellectual faculties throughout her life. In her relations with men both are to observe modesty of behavior and dress and a strict code of morality which discourages unnecessary mixing of the sexes. Her relations with her husband should be based on mutual love and compassion. He is responsible for the maintenance of the wife and children, and she is to give him the respect due to the head of the family. She is responsible for the care of home and the children’s early training. She may own her own property, run her own business and inherit in her own right.
The Qur’an states categorically that men and women who practice the principles of Islam will receive equal reward for their efforts:
“Surely for men who submit (to Allah) and for women who submit (to Allah), for believing men and believing women, for devout men and devout women, for truthful men and truthful women, for steadfast men and steadfast women, for humble men and humble women, for charitable men and charitable women, for men who fast and women who fast, for men who guard their chastity and women who guard, for men who remember Allah much and for women who remember ¾ for them Allah has prepared forgiveness and a mighty reward” (33:35)
The Qur’an refers to wives generally in another chapter saying:
“They are garments for you while you are garments for them” (2:187).
In a Muslim society therefore the man has full responsibility for the maintenance of his family. This is not only a moral but also a legal obligation. Anything a wife earns is her own to dispose of, either to use it herself or to contribute it to the family budget if she wishes.
The wife herself is responsible for the care of her home and the welfare of her family. She may express her views and make her suggestions concerning all matters, but the best role she can play in keeping the marital tie intact and strong, is to recognize her husband as the person responsible for the running of the affairs of the family, and thus to obey him even if his judgement is not acceptable to her, in a particular matter, provided he does not go beyond the limits of Islam. This is the meaning of obedience in the context of marriage in Islam. It is a recognition of the role of the husband as the head of the family unit and the loyalty of both husband and wife to a higher law, the Shari‘a.
The Prophet has said:
“The best woman is she who, when you see her you feel pleased, and when you direct her she obeys. She protects your rights and keeps he chastity when you are absent”.
I think a real good idea would be to read & understand the HOLY QURAN in its "entirety".
Cant really pick and choose what to believe-in and what not to - Remember, they are GOD's words. Reading The Holy Quran and reading about our peophet's life is the only way to understand our religion.
EveryBody, I don't want to offend any body, but fact is fact. Look at any women, do they look like you? if they have different appearence than they are different than men. How can you mix men with Women when they are different. No I am not against women rights but what I am saying is Women rights can not be mixed with Men rights. They should have their rights at right place and they should not cross each other lines.
NYA, Lets change the law, I want to see you nursing your baby.
Dear JohnD,
Could you be a bit more specific about what you meant by “nursing babies”. It is not clear to me what you mean. Did you mean to say that it is an Islamic Law that women should nurse babies. Do you really think that we need a religion to figure that out?
NYA,
No, nursing baby is not Islamic but natural law, and when it's natural I am talking Natural nursing not that Bottle feed on Similac milk. I am pretty much sure you knew What I meant. No offend That was just an example of how a man can not perform a woman job, Nursing a baby. Changing Islamic law will not do any good for anybody, you probably need to change natural law. Like change man so they can conceive a baby.
Ah, but Similac is man's answer to the problem... how to render women redundant and all the rest of it. I'm sure that sooner or later there will be artificial wombs too. Maybe with a manufacturer's label like formula carries on it in this country: "Mother's milk is best for children, HOWEVER if there is a need for a substitute here it is".
Real mothers and fathers are also best for their children, and I'm sure not just Islam says that!
A: As I said earlier, the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH)'s views on women are the exact views of Qazi.<<
That is a pretty stupid statement to make. Do you actually have any knowledge of genuine islamic history faceup or are you just making assumptions off the top of your head?
ok do you think that men have the right to marry more than one woman to protect older wome from divorce?
How often do you hear of some 40-50 year old leaving his wife of 20 years for a young thing? At least in Islam there is some protection from that and the wives are still taken care of AND in Islam there is mandated equality Of course, I know it doesn't happen but still...that is people NOT the religion.
Second
At least In true Islam women are not blamed for the original sin or presented as the temptresses as they are in other religious traditions.
As far as that mullah in some jammat..for every mullah like that there is minister, rabi and Hindu religious leader who acts, comments and says the same..just insert hind, Christian, jew for every part.
The world is pro-men because it is run by men still why would they change their interpretation of the world?
Do Muslim Women Have Rights
by Dr. Jamal Badawi
The issue of women in Islam, is topic of great misunderstanding and distortion due partly to a lack of understanding, but also partly due to misbehavior of some Muslims which has been taken to represent the teachings of Islam. We speak here about what Islam teaches, and that is that standard according to which Muslims are to be judged. As such, my basis and source is the Quran--the words of Allah, and the sayings of the Prophet, his deeds and his confirmation. Islamic laws are derived from these sources. To facilitate our discussion we can discuss the position of women from a spiritual, economic, social, and political standpoint.
From the spiritual aspect, there are seven points to remember:
According to the Quran, men and women have the same spirit, there is no superiority in the spiritual sense between men and women. (Qur'an 4:1,7:189,42:11)
The Quran makes it clear that all human beings (and the phraseology doesn't apply to men or women alone, but to both) have what you might call a human; He "breathed some of My spirit into divine touch. When God created the him" (or her in this sense). 15:29 See also 32:9. Some of His spirit here means not in the incarnational sense, but the pure, innate spiritual nature that God has endowed her or him with.
The Quran indicates again that one of the most honored positions of human, is that God created the human, and as I referred to Sura 17 earlier, it means both sexes, as His trustee and representative on earth. There are many references in the Quran that reaffirm this.
Nowhere in the Quran do we find any trace of any notion of blaming Eve for the first mistake or for eating from the forbidden tree. Nowhere, even though the Quran speaks about Adam, Eve, and the forbidden tree, but in a totally different spirit. The story is narrated in 7:19-27, and it speaks about both of them doing this, both of them are told that both of them disobeyed, both of them discovered the consequences of their disobedience, both of them seek repentance and both of them are forgiven. Nowhere in the Quran does it say woman is to be blamed for the fall of man. Furthermore, when the Quran speaks about the suffering of women during the period of pregnancy and childbirth, nowhere does it connect it with the concept of original sin, because there is no concept of original sin in Islam. The suffering is presented not as a reason to remind woman of the fall of man, but as a reason to adore and love woman or the mother. In the Quran, especially 31:14, 46:15, it makes it quite clear God has commanded upon mankind to be kind to parents and mentions, "His mother bore him in difficulty or suffering upon suffering."
The Quran makes it clear again to remove any notion of superiority and I refer you again to 49:13. I must caution you that there are some mistaken translations, but if you go to the original Arabic, there is no question of gender being involved.
In terms of moral, spiritual duties, acts of worship, the requirements of men and women are the same, except in some cases when women have certain concessions because of their feminine nature, or their health or the health of their babies.
The Quran explicitly, in more than one verse, 3:195, 4:124, specified that whoever does good deeds, and is a believer and then specifies "male or female" God will give them an abundant reward.
In the area of economic rights, we have to remember that in Europe until the 19th century, women did not have the right to own their own property. When they were married, either it would transfer to the husband or she would not be able to dispense of it without permission of her husband. In Britain, perhaps the first country to give women some property rights, laws were passed in the 1860's known as "Married Women Property Act." More than 1300 years earlier, that right was clearly established in Islamic law. "Whatever men earn, they have a share of that and whatever women earn, they have a share in that." Sura 4:31.
Secondly, there is no restriction in Islamic law that says a woman cannot work or have a profession, that her only place is in the home. In fact, by definition, in a truly Islamic society, there must be women physicians, women nurses, women teachers, because it's preferable also to separate teenagers in the volatile years in high school education. And if she chooses to work, or if she's married with the consent of her husband, she's entitled to equal pay, not for equal work, but for work of equal worth.
Thirdly, when it comes to financial security, Islamic law is more tilted in many respects towards women. There are seven examples:
During the period of engagement, a woman is to be on the receiving side of gifts.
At the time of marriage, it is the duty of the husband, not the bride's family. He is supposed to pay for a marital gift. The Quran called it a gift, and it is exclusively the right of the woman. She doesn't have to spend it on the household, she doesn't have to give it to her father or anyone else.
If the woman happened to own any property prior to marriage, she retains that property after marriage. It remains under her control. Also, in most Muslim countries, the woman keeps her own last name, and her own identity.
If the woman has any earnings during her marital life, by way of investments of her property or as a result of work, she doesn't have to spend one penny of that income on the household, it is entirely hers.
The full maintenance and support of a married woman is the entire responsibility of her husband, even though she might be richer than he is. She doesn't have to spend a penny.
At the time of divorce, there are certain guarantees during the waiting period and even beyond for a woman's support.
If the widow or divorcee has children, she's entitled to child support.
In return for these listed securities, it is clear why the Islamic laws pertaining to inheritance give men a higher share. From the social standpoint, as a daughter we find that credit goes to Islam for stopping the barbaric practice of pre-Islamic Arabs of female infanticide. These ignorant people used to bury female daughters alive. The Quran forbade the practice, making it a crime. Sura 81 Additionally, the Quran condemned the chauvinistic attitudes of some people who used to greet the birth of a boy with gladness, but sadness in the case of a girl.
The duty, not the right, the duty of education, as the Prophet said, is a duty on every Muslim, male and female.
As far as treatment of daughters is concerned, Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, said, "Anyone who has two daughters, and did not bury them, did not insult them and brought them up properly, he and I will be like this," holding his two fingers close together. Another version adds, "And also did not favor his sons over daughters." One time the Prophet, peace be upon him, was seated. A companion was sitting with him. The companion's son came. He kissed his son and put him on his lap. Then his daughter came, and he just sat her by his side. The Prophet told the man, "You did not do Justice," meaning he should have treated the daughter equally, kissed her and put her in his lap also. Indeed, whenever the Prophet's daughter Fatimah came to him, in front of everyone, he stood up, kissed her and let her sit in his favorite place where he'd been sitting.
From the marital standpoint, the Quran clearly indicates in Suras 30:20 and 42:11 that marriage is not just an inevitable evil, marriage is not somebody getting married to his master or slave, but rather to his partner. Sura 30:21 reads, "Among His Signs is this, that he created for you mates from among yourselves, that they may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): Verily in that are signs for those who reflect." There are numerous verses in the Quran to the same effect.
Secondly, the approval and consent of the girl to marriage is a prerequisite for the validity of marriage in Islam. She has the right to say yes or no.
Husbands' and wives' duties are mutual responsibilities. They might not be identical duties, but the totality of rights and responsibilities are balanced. The Quran says, "Women have the same rights (in relation to their husbands) as are expected in all decency from them, while men stand a step above them." Sura 2:228. This only specifies the degree of responsibility, not privilege, in man's role as provider, protector, maintainer, and leader of the family. The same Sura speaks about divorce, about consultation between husband and wife, even in the case of divorce. When there are family disputes, first the Quran appeals to reason and the consideration of positive aspects of one's spouse, "Dwell with your wives in kindness for even if you hate them, you might be hating someone in whom God has placed so much good." 4:19
If that appeal does not succeed, and problems between the husband and wife continue, there are measures that can be applied. Some of these measures are done privately between husband and wife. Some of them might appear harsh, but there are qualifications to restrict excessive or abusive use of these measures. These measures are considered an attempt to save a marriage rather than break a family apart. If the situation does not improve, even with the limitation and prevention of excesses, the next step is a family council. One arbiter from his family and one from her family should sit together with the couple and try to resolve the problems.
If a divorce becomes necessary, there are many detailed procedures in Islamic law that really knock down the common notion that divorce in Islam is very easy and that it is the sole right of man. It is not the sole right of man alone and neither is it true that all you have to say is: "I divorce you three times," and that's it. Islam also has laws regarding custody of children. I was very surprised to see newspapers making the false claim that in all cases custody goes to the father. Custody involves the interest of the child, and laws often favor the mother of young children.
Polygamy has become so mythical in the minds of many people that they assume being Muslim means having four wives. This is a false notion, of course. A very renowned anthropologist, Edward Westenmark, in his two-volume work, "History of Human Marriage," notes that there has been polygamy in virtually every culture and religion, including Judaism and Christianity. But the point here is not to say, "Why blame Islam?" Actually, Islam is the only religion even among Abrahamic faiths, that specifically limited the practice of polygamy that existed before Islam and established very strict conditions for guidance. The question, "How could any man have two wives? That's terrible!" reflects ethnocentrism. We assume that because we're living in the West and it seems strange, and we assume it must apply to all cultures, all times, under all circumstances. This simply isn't true. Let me give you one current-day example. In the savage attack on Afghanistan, genocide was committed on the Afghani people. It is estimated that 1-1.5 million people lost their lives, a great majority of whom were men of a marriageable age. Now, with a great shortage of men, what will happen to their widows, their orphans and their daughters of marriageable age? Is it better to leave them in a camp, with a handout? Or better a man is willing to take care of his fallen comrade's wife and children?
It is obvious that monogamy is the norm for Muslims. If we assume that having four wives is the norm, then we assume a population of 80% female and 20% male, which is an impossibility on the aggregate level. The only verse in the Quran that speaks about polygamy, speaks about limiting not instituting polygamy. The verse was revealed after the Battle of Uhud in which many Muslims were martyred, leaving behind wives and children in need of support. This verse shows the spirit and reason of the revelation.
The Quran placed obedience to parents immediately after worship of God. 3:14 "We commanded mankind to be kind to his parents," and then speaks of the mother. In a very succinct statement, Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, said, "Paradise is at the feet of mothers." Once a man came to him and asked, "O, Messenger, who among mankind is worthy of my kindness and love?" The Prophet answered, "Your mother." "Who next?" "Your mother." "Who next?" "Your mother." Only after the third time he said, "And your father."
As a sister in faith, in blood, we find the Quran speaks about men and women, that they should cooperate and collaborate in goodness. Sura 9:17 speaks about men and women as supporters and helpers of each other, ordaining the good and forbidding the evil, establishing prayers and doing charity. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) echoed what the Quran said, "I command you to be kind to women." In one of his last commands in his farewell pilgrimage before his death, he kept repeating, "I command you to be kind and considerate to women." In another hadith, he said, "It is only the generous in character who is good to women, and only the evil one who insults them."
On the question of attire, the Quran and the sayings of the Prophet did not say women must adopt a particular dress of a particular country. It only gives basic boundaries, and for a committed Muslim woman, she doesn't follow this simply because her father or husband tells her, but because Allah already stated that as a requirement in the Quran, and was explained through revelation given to Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, that this was not to restrict woman, but to provide a virtuous society where sexual attraction is not the main obsession of everyone. This forces everyone to respect the woman for what she is as a human being, as an intellectual and a spiritual being, rather than being diverted to her sexuality.
Finally, a few words about political involvement. The verse quoted earlier, Sura 9:17, which speaks about men and women being supporters and helpers of each other was taken by some jurists to mean that it involves also public life. How could they ordain the good and forbid the evil without women being active in the affairs of their society? According to the Quran, I'm not talking about the practices of Muslims, in Sura 60:12, we read about Muslim women making "bayyah" to the Prophet. Bayyah as an Islamic term is somewhat analogous, to a degree, to what we would call an election, or oath of allegiance. And that was given in his capacity not only as a Prophet, but as a head of state, as he was already the head of state in Medina.
During the rein of Umar, women participated in law making. Umar made a proposal of a certain regulation concerning marriage. A woman in the mosque stood up and said, "Umar, you can't do that." Umar did not tell her, "Shut up, you are a woman, you have nothing to do with politics, etc." He asked, "Why?" She made her argument on the basis of Quran. In front of everybody, he stood up and said, "The woman is right and Umar is wrong," and he withdrew his proposal. That was the spirit in the early days of Islam.
In the most authentic collection of hadith, Hadith Bukhari, a section is devoted to the participation of women, not only in public affairs, but in the battlefield, too, and not only as logistical support. Women carried arms, and when there was great danger to the Muslims, they volunteered to participate even in the battlefield.
The problems presented here are not the problems of Islam. They are problems of a lack of commitment, lack of application, or misapplication of Islamic teachings by Muslims themselves. The topics I have tried to cover here represent and exemplify the big gap that exists between the true teachings of Islam as derived from its original sources and its projected image in the West and the way some Muslims behave in the disregard of those noble teachings.
There's no question that the Western media has played an important role in perpetuating these misconceptions. But in fairness, we should not blame the media alone. Western culture, in writings about other religions, in particular Islam, have distorted images. From books, novels, even in the academic circle, and sermons from the pulpit in places of worship, these kinds of prejudices are perpetuated.
There are fair and honorable people in the media who are receptive to correction of inaccuracies, and who present the facts, when the facts become manifest, as we have seen in the coverage of the barbaric and cruel treatment of the Palestinians n the Occupied Territories. What I would suggest to the media is instead of depending on the distorted information about Islam, they should keep in touch with educated Muslims, and remember, the U.S. has between 5 and 6 million Muslims. Only through correct representation and open communication with Muslims in America can the media give a fair analysis of current events, given the background of those conflicts, and provide a great service to society.
The above article was taken from this site:
http://www.msa-natl.org/SISTERS/articles/
There are plenty more articles which should cover most of the questions any genuine person has about women’s rights in islam. Great to see they are so concerned.
facup,
I suggest you have a look, and as you know our standpoint, perhaps you would be good enough to tell us yours - just so we are on a level playing field. What are you? Muslim? Hindu? Agnostic? Atheist? Seeing as your other thread is questioning the validity of the Quran - and you are fully entitled to your opinion - at least have the decency to let us know where you are coming from. Perhaps we can compare our system with yours. And of course if you aren’t a hypocritical coward you will be happy to do so. 