Re: What Really Happens In The Church of Scientology
ok.
When miracle is in the past it could become a tale.(we believe in virgin birth of jesus )
That is why we have the testable miracle now, quran. (we can test… oppose to believe.)
Ask me how.
Or tell me you know why muslims claim it to be miracle and why you think its not.
“There is not other miracle on the earth” is not a valid reason for quaran not to be a miracle.
ps: miracle being out side the capacity of man.
Re: What Really Happens In The Church of Scientology
Let’s change the name of this thread to everyone vs theorist and queer.
I give 10 points to t and q couple. 0 to all of you.
Re: What Really Happens In The Church of Scientology
Others beliefs always sound strange to people…except their on.
Re: What Really Happens In The Church of Scientology
If someone doesn’t like motorcycles, there is no use arguing Harley-Davidson is better than Suzuki with that person.
Re: What Really Happens In The Church of Scientology
Hmm you know there is a guy called “elephant man” because his head looks like an elephant’s head. Does this make the “boy with an elephant head” miracle/story more sound or less far fetched. Like others have pointed out. Our beliefs always make more sense to us. The truth is you hear a story enough times, it begins to sound true and logical. Again, stop assuming that I find all practices of all religions to be crazy. That is not what I ever said. This is why I told you to drop common sense talk and talk about big fat claims certain religions make, which are to be taken literally no matter how little sense they really make. On top of that, not only is it your religion that makes perfect, all others all BS and their big fat claims are silly. How is that?
I don’t wish to argue and I don’t mean to be rude, but I can’t take you or others seriously because most of you seem incapable of putting your faith/scripture aside and compare religions like you would compare anything else. I don’t blame you. You grew up believing this. Years of conditioning and reassurance that your belief system is perfect while nothing else makes any sense. Yeah. I am asking for too much. It is like I am showing two characters from two different languages. One is from english and the other one from a language you don’t recognize. For you only the familiar symbol is accepted as language and makes sense while the other is rejected and cannot be language because English is the only language you are taught to understand and accept.
Re: What Really Happens In The Church of Scientology
this is the 20th thread I saw RV talking to non believers.
I don’t think she qualifies for
" you seem incapable of putting your faith/scripture aside and compare religions like you would compare anything else
"
Re: What Really Happens In The Church of Scientology
^I am not just talking about RV. Quoting scripture and hadith and presenting it as proof of its authenticity makes no sense. People of another faith can do that and their claims would be just as valid. Here’s another analogy. Yeah, I love analogies. It’s kind of like looking at and comparing paintings. Say you are zoomed in on one painting and cannot see other paintings while claiming there is only one painter. You are not wrong and can’t be blamed because from your perspective, there really is just one painting and one painter. Zoom out and you can see multiple paintings and just as many painters.
Re: What Really Happens In The Church of Scientology
Completely agree, we can not use self asserting statements from with in the texts, as a proof.
Its like me saying look at me I am so awesome.
But we have to keep our self unbiased to the minimal level.
So When I say “look at me I have ipod and Iphone and mac book, I can afford awesomeness.”
In that case we should look for, if I actually own all 3 or not.
PS: I don’t own any “I” thing 
Re: What Really Happens In The Church of Scientology
Theorist, if you’re referring to Joseph Merrick…who later became known as the elephant man …yes I am aware of him. You’re comparing a congential disorder to the Hindu depiction? Seriously? They’re not the same. And as I said earlier the last line of Surah Ikhlas states that nothing is unto like Allah. Nothing from His creation…no human…no animal…no plant…no stone idol made from human hands can be used to represent Allah and in this Islam and all its prophets have been consistent.
You still didn’t answer my question. If anything, you evaded it yet again. I would rather that you not answer my question if it means that you will at least reflect over my point without ego…as opposed to answering my question with defensiveness/ego.
I have no interest in you reverting to Islam or converting to any other religion for that matter. That’s between you and your conscience and Allah. I’m not on a particular mission to revert you.
But what I still find strange is your comment that you find the practices of all religions to be crazy.
As I said earlier …even atheists and agnostics are able to admit which practices from which religions are superior …or at the very least…are beneficial without becoming a follower of those faiths.
*You will not become a Christian or a Jew or a Muslim or a Hindu…if you were to admit that it’s a good thing that other faiths don’t audit their followers and blackmail them.
*You will not automatically become a Christian/Jew/Muslim/Hindu if you were to admit that other faiths have more sanitary/hygienic practices than Scientology.
To say that all practices of other religions are as crazy as the ones in scientology is folly. It implies…to me anyway…that you are so averse to religion on the whole that you have lost your ability to discern between sound n unsound…clean and unsanitary…ethical and unjust. And I think that’s sad…and Allah knows best your intentions…but to me it reads as an egotistical defense of atheism.
I recall once that Queer…yup even Queer…had once said that there’s something powerful about praying 5 times a day. Such a comment didn’t automatically make him a Muslim. He could have even said that there’s something powerful about one’s dedication in climbing the sharp steps of a temple with their knees. Or in sacrificing one’s hunger …as fasting is an aspect of many religions. But talking about one particular practice of a religion…and being able to acknowledge something positive about it…did not automatically render him a follower of that faith.
And this is what I’m talking about. It is unreasonable to tar all practices with the “crazaay” brush. It is strange to say that you “see no difference in them.” One who does that is speaking from ego.
Let’s totally remove religion from the equation. If you were visit two homes. In one home the people don’t clean it and it’s filthy. The inhabitants sit at a dirty table without washing their hands. In the other home…the table is clean…the utensils are clean…hands are washed before eating. Surely…you should be able to acknowledge that one home has better eating practices than the other…that one emphasizes sanitation more than the other. It would not be a judgment upon entire lifestyle or their entire character. It is an assessment of one aspect or practice.
I’m not even talking about fundamental beliefs of religion where monotheism and polytheism are compared or where the nature of God is debated…that stuff can be complicated. So let’s just forget about that or put that aside. But if one cannot even admit that a practice of one religion is more sanitary or dignified than the other…then what is that? Ego?
Re: What Really Happens In The Church of Scientology
^What was your question?
FYI, big difference in practices and beliefs. Certain practices are wonderful like praying and even fasting. You seem to assume a lot about me. I never talked about religious practices. I have been talking about claims and beliefs and how everyone is biased. That includes me as well!
So you are saying asexual reproduction in certain species makes the story of virgin birth of Jesus plausible but congential disorder in HUMANS cannot be used to explain the story of elephant boy? See the disconnect? You are using one anomaly to justify your beliefs but if others do the same, it’s ridiculous.
And you keep referring to Quran or Hadith and saying how something is not possible because the scripture says so. Keep in mind that others can do that too and they are not stupid just people of faith like you are. LOL
Re: What Really Happens In The Church of Scientology
I am addressing the content of your very first response to this thread wherein you said that if Scientology is crazy then so are other religion as you see “no difference in them.” I question the meaning and validity of this particular response of yours.
Re: What Really Happens In The Church of Scientology
…and if there is no way for us to know that you actually own any of those items we should be able to say, “we don’t know.”
Re: What Really Happens In The Church of Scientology
So now that we have establish a model.
We can totally take out my ipad(and family) out of equation and put “way for us to know” there.
So we can find out if there is way to know.
Or there is no way to know.
very simple.
(Like science and math this whole business is in details. )
PS: there is huge difference between expanding discussion
OR
discussing A small detail, in detail. 
Re: What Really Happens In The Church of Scientology
I don’t know of another religion that holds secrets from its adherents, which are gradually revealed as the adherents gain “rank”. In this sense, Scientology is quite different.
Re: What Really Happens In The Church of Scientology
q would not be happy with your judgement 
Re: What Really Happens In The Church of Scientology
GS per do tarah ke log hain, those who think there is a way to know and those who think there is no way to know. All arguments stem from that initial premise.
Re: What Really Happens In The Church of Scientology
This completely depends on the nature of the statement/fact.
If fact can be verified by usual/modern methods, then
a-one should try.
Or
b-say I am not interested.
in case of “b” it would not be appropriate to engage in such discussion(pertaining to such claims all the time )
In case of “a” we should put forward one test statement to see if its testable or not.
To be completely scientific, person presenting claim ,should also present the way to disprove it.
for example.
Evolution modify all living things from some thing else.
Falsifiable(By Dr Dawkin) if we find fossilized hippo from ancient time, it should disapprove evolution theory.
You see how evolutionist provided a way to challenge and test and disprove their theory.
Same way we should examine a fact and way to disprove it, so you and @queer could think.
Re: What Really Happens In The Church of Scientology
There is another type of people, those who think absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. They actually are unbiased agnostics. I appreciate them as they at-least accept what is missing. You have been showing bias despite demanding others to compare their religion without bias.
Although I believe that to believe in morality and good you dont have to verify every belief scientifically. I see people try to confuse religious ruling with morality so they can prove that morality is subjective and is not a universal thing. Religion can be divided into two basic categories for non-believers. One is universal moral like motivations for charity, speaking truth, to not to backbite, sacrifice, save lives etc. The other category is religious ruling like mandatory worshiping which appears subjectively moral to non-believers. But if you study lives of religious people you would find the practices of latter category help them attain the good of former category. So it depends upon what you like from within.
Re: What Really Happens In The Church of Scientology
It was six men of Indostan,
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.
The First approach’d the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
“God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!”
The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, -“Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis mighty clear,
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!”
The Third approach’d the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
“I see,” -quoth he- “the Elephant
Is very like a snake!”
The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee:
“What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain,” -quoth he,-
“'Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!”
The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said- “E’en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!”
The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Then, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
“I see,” -quoth he,- “the Elephant
Is very like a rope!”
And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!
So, oft in theologic wars
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean;
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!