what makes humans evil ?

Society Religion & Philosophy
41

Re: what makes humans evil ?

You dont understand the concept of God, that's why you are complaining against everything odd/wrong with your life. God intervene or not is a separate discussion.

Me said, God makes living beings with natural instincts, you can deny this statement by your statement that natural instincts of living beings are result of years of evolution but you posed again an irrelevant question that why don't God intervene. And you are **yet **to prove years of evolution.

you being an atheist or agnostic have learnt different questions but you don't know when to pose a question. So I suggest you refrain from such conjectures and just prove what you claim.

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*I have no idea what you're saying here. Are you saying I need to prove evolution to you? Or, are you saying I need to prove evolutionary psychology? *

How can you tell I believe in some god? I don't get this point...what are you saying?
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in post #21 I asked the question "what makes mother love her child"
in post #22 you replied that it is result of years of evolution.

so I asked you just prove how mother's love evolved through years of evolution?
however, I take your point in post #38 where you suggest me pick up a college level biology book, and find the answers.

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Re: what makes humans evil ?

what is the purpose of life? do you think that you existence is meaningless and purposeless?

how evil is subjective? killing an innocent person is an evil, how this act is subjective?

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Re: what makes humans evil ?

There is a purpose and meaning of life, avoiding the purpose and meaning of life make the human do whatever he/she want, even, evil things like robbery, killing innocent people, and Sexual abuse....
Once you lose the purpose of life, you would find it reasonable to do whatever suits you but not others, so do not just lose the purpose of the life.

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Re: what makes humans evil ?

Which concept of god are you talking about? There are so many! Most of the people on earth won't won't agree with or accept your concept of god. So, which one in particular are you speaking about? Personally, I like the concept of Odin. He promised to defeat and kill all the ice giants, and I don't see any ice giants around!

As for me, I have a great life. I never complain to a mysterious wizard in the sky when anything doesn't go my way. Everything I have is because I worked hard, got graduate degrees, took smart decisions. No sky wizard involved. I and my family have good health because we have great medical care, again because our doctor(s) worked hard in school.

There is a fundamental question you're avoiding, and I suspect it's because it negates the notion of a benevolent deity. That being: If evil isn't subjective, and the notion of good and love comes from a deity, then why doesn't the deity intervene when evil is committed? If the deity is responsible for a mother's love, why does he pick and choose the mothers to receive this capacity?

As for proving evolution, there are lots of sources that can help you with that. That's a task that's too herculean and voluminous for this. But, it's available. But I think it's dubious that you're asking for proof.

Everyone has to find their own purpose in life. It's up to you to find meaning. No one defines it for you. My life has a purpose. I have a drive to get up in the morning. I have a drive to be the best person I can be. To be caring, and giving, and selfless, and none of that comes from a a belief in a deity.

As for killing innocent people being evil: That's a very odd statement. There are suicide bombers in Pakistan that would totally disagree with you. They not only think it holy, but they think it their duty....! I bet they can find justification for it in the same deity that you believe in.

That's an absolutely absurd statement! I've never robbed, or killed, or raped anyone! The world's largest philanthropists, as I mentioned earlier, are all atheists.

So you're telling me, if you didn't believe in a deity that you would start raping, robbing, and killing people? That's a very frightening thought!

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Re: what makes humans evil ?

you are really funny, your comments should be tagged as Atheist's (irrelevant) FAQs.

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As for proving evolution, there are lots of sources that can help you with that. That's a task that's too herculean and voluminous for this. But, it's available. But I think it's dubious that you're asking for proof.

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I asked you bring a single example how love of mother evolved.

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Everyone has to find their own purpose in life. It's up to you to find meaning. No one defines it for you. My life has a purpose. I have a drive to get up in the morning. I have a drive to be the best person I can be. To be caring, and giving, and selfless, and none of that comes from a a belief in a deity.

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so is it ok, to become careless about other people, not-giving, and selfish? as no one would investigate/ inquire you for this carelessness and selfishness???

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As for killing innocent people being evil: That's a very odd statement. There are suicide bombers in Pakistan that would totally disagree with you. They not only think it holy, but they think it their duty....! I bet they can find justification for it in the same deity that you believe in.

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are you in a position to claim that no one in this world kill innocent people, as if there is no evil.
Evil is evil, irrespective of justification.

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That's an absolutely absurd statement! I've never robbed, or killed, or raped anyone! The world's largest philanthropists, as I mentioned earlier, are all atheists.

So you're telling me, if you didn't believe in a deity that you would start raping, robbing, and killing people? That's a very frightening thought!
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so atheists don't do evil at all?

46

Re: what makes humans evil ?

So, perhaps I wasn't elementary enough: That which we call 'love' is a word we, as in humans, coined to label an emotion. This is an emotion, a mother's love if you will, that is found in other species. It's not specific to humans only! It's an adaptive trait, an urge, to care for and provide for the well being of off-springs. There is mountains of evidence for this. All you have to do is pick up a college biology book. I'll leave it up to you to educate yourself on this.

This is really a self serving attitude. You only do good because someone else is watching and because you expect a reward, in the after life for it? You're not doing it because you feel compelled by the condition of your fellow humans? That's really not being selfless then. You're being selfish. You do it so you can have something in return.

Again, I'll use Bill Gates and Warren Buffett, both atheists. They're philanthropists because they want to help people. They expect nothing in return. That's being selfless, not selfish.

I'm saying evil is subjective and is a religious invention. I believe genital mutilation is always evil. I believe capital punishment is always evil. I believe suicide bombings are always evil. However, there are people that not only disagree with me on all the above, but they believe it to be holy and reverent.

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Re: what makes humans evil ?

in your last post you said it is a Herculean task to prove evolution of loving offspring, now you said, it easy a pie, funny....
I have been doing good in biology in F.Sc. as far as I can remember there was chapter on evolution in last section of textbook. I remember three things from that chapter. one, evolution of plants is discussed with primitive plants fossils. second, evolution of symmetrical and asymmetrical animals. third thing I know for sure, there was not a single topic on the evolution of behaviors of plants or animal. Now, you tell me what should I read to understand you claim that loving offspring is result of years of evolution???

addition: I need an example that loving offspring behavior was NOT present in our ancestors or was present in any other form/type from where current (loving offspring) behavior evolved.

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This is really a self serving attitude. You only do good because someone else is watching and because you expect a reward, in the after life for it? You're not doing it because you feel compelled by the condition of your fellow humans? That's really not being selfless then. You're being selfish. You do it so you can have something in return.

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Do not put a counter question. first, answer my question with predicate(Yes, No) that is, is it ok to be careless about other people, not-giving, and selfish? as no one would investigate/ inquire you for this carelessness and selfishness???

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Again, I'll use Bill Gates and Warren Buffett, both atheists. They're philanthropists because they want to help people. They expect nothing in return. That's being selfless, not selfish.

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poor argument. There is plenty of scientists who were religious.

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I'm saying evil is subjective and is a religious invention. I believe genital mutilation is always evil. I believe capital punishment is always evil. I believe suicide bombings are always evil. However, there are people that not only disagree with me on all the above, but they believe it to be holy and reverent.
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Again, you didnt asnwer my question but implying your personal thoughts.
Dont put your personal agenda of malign religion.

you gave a flat and generalized statement that evil is subjective. so let me tell you any example of an action so you prove it subjective, that is killing of an innocent person is subjective???

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Re: what makes humans evil ?

I believe I said it was a herculean task to explain evolution in this forum. That doesn’t mean it hasn’t been well done. I believe I also said it was up to you to get educated on it.

I have no idea what book you read, obviously it wasn’t a very good book. If you need a suggestion, try: Evolutionary Psychology: The New Science of the Mind (4th Edition): David Buss: 9780205015627: Amazon.com: Books

I’m having a rather hard time believing that you’re getting what I’m saying. Taking caring of off spring is intrinsic in animals. It was there in our ancestors and it’s there in other Animalia. Does that make it clearer for you?

Again, I don’t understand what you’re not getting. I’ve answered this numerous times. Is the connotation the hard part?

No one does investigate whether you do or don’t care about other people. That’s my whole point! There is no one to investigate!

Your point is arbitrary. I think it’s not ok to not care about other people, but there are people who do it! It’s my opinion and personal belief that it’s not ok to care about others.

I don’t know what point you’re trying to make with this. Being religious and using religious dogma as scientific fact are two different things. A recent survey of the American Academy of Sciences found that 98% of it’s members are agnostic or atheists. The other 2% believed religion to be allegorical and not literal. I bet if you surveyed professors in Pakistan, of science, you’d get the same result.

…but this is off topic anyway!

I don’t need to malign religion. The followers of the religions do a quite nice job of it themselves.

Suicide bombers don’t believe killing innocent people is evil. As a matter of fact, they believe they’ll be rewarded in the afterlife for it.

I believe all killing is evil. Even capital punishment. I bet you don’t think that’s evil!

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Re: what makes humans evil ?

Following things are true about you for sure.
You are over confident about your arguments and think that people would take it same as you think of that. Whereas fact is
You do not do you own research rather overwhelmed by scientific shield; otherwise you might have come up with some technical details.

Biological urge and natural instinct changes to evolutionary psychology now :slight_smile:
If you have some technical point from that book related to my question do discuss here. I don’t want to waste rest of my life in search of a scientific proof of that.

You must know the definition of evolution:
1.The process by which different kinds of living organisms are thought to have developed and diversified from earlier forms during the the history of the earth.
2.The gradual development of something, esp. from a simple to a more complex form. Even oxford dictionary tells, it is thought not fact.
However see, I asked you what makes mother love her child. You told it is result of years of evolution.
See, in the light of definition of evolution, what my question has to do with evolution???
if it has, so answer my question how this natural instinct evolved from basic to complex level, what was the basic level?
If you don’t give to-the-point direction or answer to my question, I would take your argument as proof of evolution of loving offerings is, which is, “Taking caring of off spring is intrinsic in animals”. So finish it.

No, it is not an arbitrary point; I took it from your comments. Your comments were rather contradictory. You said, you are selfless person and to be caring and giving is self serving attitude. Can you be selfless and self serving at the same time. Why would you care about someone for nothing in return?
You are caring because you want others be caring toward you. That’s all for yourself nothing is about selflessness here.

That means every act in this world is subjective unless it is proved in scientific lab. Even right and wrong are subjective. An act is subjective just because two different people had different take on that?
Almost everything in this world is subjective to your interpretation, how funny this notion is.
Spy agencies of differnt counteries task their forces to disturb/disorder the law and order situation of enemy country even by killing innocent people. If you say that this evil is also subjective, i would say there is something wrong with you.

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Re: what makes humans evil ?

Prasad is not overconfident. He is logical.

51

Re: what makes humans evil ?

using name/word of evolution to gaurd your belief does not make him or you logical. He is blind believer of science as he couldnt come up with a single technical reason or detail.

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Re: what makes humans evil ?

This is not a war. Where one has to " guard" one's belief. It is just truth as one sees it. Based on facts and objectivity.

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Re: what makes humans evil ?

“If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?”

Kprasad: you remind me of The burden of proof - YouTube

and although I’m a Muslim by choice, I found your views quite intriguing. But I am curious, why bother arguing with people of faiths that are quite satisfied with their belief system and are likely never to see otherwise?

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Re: what makes humans evil ?

Interesting to see 'science lovers' and atheists coming up with no single credible or sensible argument in favor of Evolution theory.

Full of hocus pocus and mumbo jumbo.

Even funnier is to hear from those who are fake atheists.

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Re: what makes humans evil ?

The raison d’etre of this forum is polemics and engagement. Aside from that, I really have no issues with people of faith professing their faith, as such. My issue arises when the ignorance of faith becomes malignant and is then used to batter everyone else. That is, per se, what religion does. It has to. It requires you relegate critical thinking. If one wants to do that, it’s their right. But, when a group tries to spread it, I believe it is incumbent upon any rational being to counter it. Rationality, above all, must take precedence.

The world is engaged in violence that is spreading like cancer. It’s not because unbelievers are killing because someone doesn’t dis-believe enough. It’s because believers have taken it upon themselves to fight people that don’t believe as they do, and the masses are caught in the middle. This is happening everywhere..it must stop.

We have embryonic research slowed because of religion. We have condom distribution being negated, a known remedy for the spread of AIDS, because of religion. We have people being executed for their nature. We have people being killed for apostasy. All because religion tells people it’s evil.

Some time back, I read in a news paper that as a response for jihad, some religious groups in India have taken it upon themselves to wage dharam yudh. Think about that for a second. A religious group counters a ‘holy war’ with an even bigger and wider ‘holy war’. This isn’t just asinine, it’s deranged and fanatical. Each religion believing the other to be false and evil.

To paraphrase Neil DeGrasse Tysson, it’s ok for people to be ignorant but they don’t have a right to pass their ignorance on to their children. The world needs thinkers, skeptics, and rationalists. We have enough fanatics.

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Re: what makes humans evil ?

I'm not quite sure I understand the nature of your ad hominem attack. Are you sayign that because I didn't produce, or conduct, the research myself that's it's inadmissible? Or, are you saying that the book I suggested, by a world renowned researcher, isn't enough for you? I don't get what you're saying. You need to clarify.

Again, I don't get what you're arguing here. What do I need to finish? What "to-the-point direction or answer" are you looking for? What am I missing?

You're arguing that love of a mother comes from some deity! I'm asking you, which deity? Which god does it come from? You aren't answering my question!

Yes...now we get to the heart of the question: Why would I care about someone else for nothing in return.
Because, as a human being, this life is all we have. There is nothing after. My life is precious to me and I know that everyone else's life is precious. It's called sympathy and being empathetic. I do it, because I want to. I do it because I hope to set an example so others do as I have done. No deity involved, just rationality.
I'm not forcing anyone to be caring towards me, nor am I expecting it. I'm hoping to set an example. There is a difference. Again, no deity involved.

BINGO!!!!! Someone give this person a cigar!!!
The world is subjective and open to interpretation. That's the thing about life, it's more gray than black and white.

I had a conversation this weekend about the execution of a terrorist in India, Afzal Guru. My antagonist believed it was not only right, but it was delayed. I argued that any killing is wrong, but especially soemthing like this. All it shows it that 'civilized' societies can revert to the stone ages when provoked enough. It showed that people are capable of the same violence that took Afzal Guru to the gallows. Which one of us is right and which is evil?

As for the spy agency thing...I'm not even going to give you a counter argument. I think you're intelligent enough to know your point is invalid.

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Re: what makes humans evil ?

The thread has served its purpose...or maybe more than that.

58

Re: what makes humans evil ?

:omg: