I received several interesting inquiries in response to my thread, “question to muslims”.
It gave me an insight about how different people think what is the definition of Zina.
Some of the guppies wrote that there is nothing wrong in two man and woman living together and be involved in a sexual relationship.
To my understanding any sexual intercourse between a man and woman out of wedlock is zina, with or without consent.
<<To my understanding any sexual intercourse between a man and woman out of wedlock is zina, with or without consent.
without consent, it is considered RAPE. And there is no such thing as with consent, as if you keep a watchperson to protect and watch your property, and he/she allows someone to steal from it. There is a consent between the watchperson and the theif, but the watchperson has no authority to enter into such consent with a theif, as he/she is not the owner of the property.
Likewise, a person without marriage cannot have consent of having intercourse with his/her loved one. Allah has appointed him/her as a watchman to his/her own chastity.
Which brings us to another aspect of Islam and that is that it is based on natures principles and nature demands that sex matters should be looked into also as it is one of the natures demands. Prophet Mohammad, swaw said:
"Starvations drags one to brink of kufr."
sexual defeciencies is also starvation. So those who are not married, should get marriage immedetialy and those cannot marry (4 whatever reasons) should look into .....I dont want to stir another controversy, but muta would be right option.
[quote]
Originally posted by zawiyaefikr:
**<<To my understanding any sexual intercourse between a man and woman out of wedlock is zina, with or without consent.
without consent, it is considered RAPE. And there is no such thing as with consent, as if you keep a watchperson to protect and watch your property, and he/she allows someone to steal from it. There is a consent between the watchperson and the theif, but the watchperson has no authority to enter into such consent with a theif, as he/she is not the owner of the property.
Likewise, a person without marriage cannot have consent of having intercourse with his/her loved one. Allah has appointed him/her as a watchman to his/her own chastity.
Which brings us to another aspect of Islam and that is that it is based on natures principles and nature demands that sex matters should be looked into also as it is one of the natures demands. Prophet Mohammad, swaw said:
"Starvations drags one to brink of kufr."
sexual defeciencies is also starvation. So those who are not married, should get marriage immedetialy and those cannot marry (4 whatever reasons) should look into .....I dont want to stir another controversy, but muta would be right option.**
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Thanks for your opinion. Agree that sex without consent is rape. Rape is an english term. Zina is more broad term which incorporates all types of illegitimate sex.
Your thoughts about anybody not having a right to consent for sex out of marriage are interesting but are not practical. In a way it is against basic human rights but that will be a separate discussion about Islam against the human rights.
As we know to avoid sexual starvation Islam promotes marriages as early as possible. It is the economic restraints which lead to delay in marriages especially these days.
Zina is Adultery, right ?
Zina includes both fornication and adultery.
May we all be forgiven for our sins, intentional or otherwise. Ameen
Zina is adultery i think.
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying. Allah fixed the very portion of adultery which a man will indulge in. There would be no escape from it. The adultery of the eye is the lustful look and the adultery of the ears is listening to voluptuous (song or talk) and the adultery of the tongue is licentious speech and the adultery of the hand is the lustful grip (embrace) and the adultery of the feet is to walk (to the place) where he intends to commit adultery and the heart yearns and desires which he may or may not put into effect.
(muslim)
Also it is explained more in Surah-Noor.
Certainly zina is adultary.
Also, fornication is forbidden, weather between male and a male or female and a male.. Wal-^Yathubillah.
[quote]
Originally posted by Ahmad G:
**Certainly zina is adultary.
Also, fornication is forbidden, weather between male and a male or female and a male.. Wal-^Yathubillah.**
[/quote]
I believe you also forgot to mention that it's forbidden between 2 females too!!!!
[quote]
Originally posted by MyStiCaL_MisS:
**Zina is adultery i think.
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying. Allah fixed the very portion of adultery which a man will indulge in. There would be no escape from it. The adultery of the eye is the lustful look and the adultery of the ears is listening to voluptuous (song or talk) and the adultery of the tongue is licentious speech and the adultery of the hand is the lustful grip (embrace) and the adultery of the feet is to walk (to the place) where he intends to commit adultery and the heart yearns and desires which he may or may not put into effect.
(muslim)
Also it is explained more in Surah-Noor.**
[/quote]
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Abu Huraira again, this mythical creation of hadith never existed.
[quote]
Originally posted by Mullah_DoPiazza:
** HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Abu Huraira again
**
[/quote]
Cant you just shut up knowing that to talk insultingly about religious personalities is against the forum rules? Some people are just slow and dumb (and yes i'm talking about you).
[quote]
Originally posted by ammarr:
** Cant you just shut up knowing that to talk insultingly about religious personalities is against the forum rules? Some people are just slow and dumb (and yes i'm talking about you).**
[/quote]
Coming from a robot like you, I consider that a complement and hope that the message is getting through.
[This message has been edited by Mullah_DoPiazza (edited July 21, 2001).]
Amarr man don’t waste your time. This guy is already a lost cause. He also considers watching porno videos within the limits of Islam. Check his posts in the corner room! Its better to ignore idiots like this.
24:2 The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication flog each of them with a hundred stripes: let not compassion move you in their case in a matter prescribed by Allah if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
Zina includes sexual intercourse **between a man and a woman not married to each other. It therefore applies both to adultery (which implies that one or both of the parties are married to a person or persons other than the ones concerned) and to fornication, which, in its strict signification, implies that both parties are unmarried. **The law of marriage and divorce is made easy in Islam, so that there may be the less temptation for intercourse outside the well-defined incidents of marriage. This makes for greater self-respect for both man and woman. Other sex offences are also punishable, but this Section applies strictly to Zina as above defined. Although zina covers both fornication and adultery, in the opinion of Muslim jurists, the punishment laid down here applies only to unmarried persons. As for married persons, their punishment, according to the Sunnah of the Prophet (peace be on him), is stoning to death.
Thanks Ibrahim. This is exactly my understanding of what Zina is.
analyze it
<
They are not practical, as Islam encourages healthy living, which is impossible without sex. and we both agree that people dont marry early for reasons alluded by you. So those Muslims who are faced with this situation what should they do? That is my point.
Ibrahim...
<
Your second explanation is not necessarily correct. A married person having sex with unmaried is engaging in adultry, while the unmarried involved in the same act is indulged in fornication.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by zawiyaefikr:
What do you mean by “Healthy living is impossible without sex”?
What is your definition of “Healthy living”?
In Islamic societies most people do not engage in sex before marriage i.e around 25 years of age( as an average). Do they all live “Unhealthy living” until their marriage and then suddenly become “Healthy”.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif
[This message has been edited by analyze it (edited July 22, 2001).]
Can we say masturbation, watching pornography movie, dating & doing some censored stuffsXXX as unhealthy living?
[quote]
Originally posted by zawiyaefikr:
**
They are not practical, as Islam encourages healthy living, which is impossible without sex. and we both agree that people dont marry early for reasons alluded by you. So those Muslims who are faced with this situation what should they do? That is my point.
**
[/quote]
Ibrahim says: salaams
Hi zawiyaefikr:,
You seem to have made up your mind as to what is correct and what is not according to your notions and that my friend is where we all go wrong.
Iqra!
24: 32 Marry those among you who are single or the virtuous ones among your slaves male or female:** if they are in poverty Allah will give them means out of His grace: ** for Allah encompasseth all and He knoweth all things.
33 ** Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste until Allah gives them means out of His grace. ** And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum) give them such a deed if ye know any good in them; yea give them something yourselves out of the means which Allah has given to you. ** But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life.** But if anyone compels them yet after such compulsion is Allah Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (to them).
Commentary by Yusof Ali
A Muslim marriage requires some sort of a dower for the wife. If the man cannot afford that, he must wait and keep himself chaste.** (24.33)
Ibrahim says: Hence trying to satisfy our lust outside of marriage bonds amounts to Zina, once this law had been revealed by Allah’s grace. Had the law not been revealed and earlier customs allowed the practicing of Muta, that was only before this law was established than after Islam enjoins the protection of the “marriage contract” and any two parties coming together without this contract without having been witnessed by the community are committing zina.
Society is built on marriage once we undermine its sanctity than we have undermined the Ummah itself. Just ask yourself who will be responsible for the children when the contract expires as is the case of muta?
Any person who feels he has the right to make secret contracts with his sister ( we are all brother and sisters coming from the same tree) for a day or for a year or whatever length of time ( muta) are basically committing zina according to what Allah (swt) had revealed.
Even the slaves that our right hand possess have to be wed ( married ) and given the status of a wife when Islam became established ( what to took place prior to that or practiced by the hindus ( followers of the corrupted teachings of Prophet Ibrahim (pbuh) ) should not be misconstrued as a right for Muslims.
Iqra!
24:3 Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry any but a woman similarly guilty or an Unbeliever nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.
Hence for those who commit muta/zina only the above choices are available to them and If they believe in Allah they have to refrain from seeking a pious believing women in marriage. This is ensured such that the man /women will not corrupt that marriage by deviating from his commitments to the pious/virgin women by thinking his contract with her can be terminated as per his whims and fancies.
[quote]
Originally posted by zawiyaefikr:
**
Ibrahim...
<< ina includes sexual intercourse between a man and a woman not married to each other. It therefore applies both to adultery (which implies that one or both of the parties are married to a person or persons other than the ones concerned) and to fornication, which, in its strict signification, implies that both parties are unmarried. The law of marriage and divorce is made easy in Islam, so that there may be the less temptation for intercourse outside the well-defined incidents of marriage. This makes for greater self-respect for both man and woman. Other sex offences are also punishable, but this Section applies strictly to Zina as above defined. Although zina covers both fornication and adultery, in the opinion of Muslim jurists, the punishment laid down here applies only to unmarried persons. As for married persons, their punishment, according to the Sunnah of the Prophet (peace be on him), is stoning to death.>>
Your second explanation is not necessarily correct. A married person having sex with unmaried is engaging in adultry, while the unmarried involved in the same act is indulged in fornication. **
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Ibrahim says; BTW that was not my commentary on that verse but Yusof Ali’s commentary.
My brother we are talking about the Arabic interpretation for Zina, so please do not mix it up with how we understand things in English.
*Even the most perfect being cannot escape the perfect consistency of God’s laws *
------------------**
[quote]
Originally posted by babydoll:
Can we say masturbation, watching pornography movie, dating & doing some censored stuffsXXX as unhealthy living?
[/quote]
Ibrahim says; salaams
Hi, do they not focus our minds on the oppsite sex? when we have no marriage contracts with any what will we do, except think of committing zina?
protect yourself from side glances, damaging comments, mad desires, slips of the tongue. **
Analyze it....<
By 'Healthy living', I meant that one as an individual or a society, take into consideration the requirements of body along with the necessaties of soul. Worship is food for soul while eating, drinking and sex are bodily demands. When one has mixture of both, he/she is living healthy. The Prophet of Islam, Mohammad, swaw, said that those who dont marry are not from us. One reason of marriage is sexual gratification.
re your second observation, I have not found any Islamic society now a days on this planet. Logicaly, one is able to have sexual arousal and awarness much before the age of 25 years. Eighteen is good and if possible one should get married at this age, but alas the reason we discussed b4.
BabyDoll..
<<Can we say masturbation, watching pornography movie, dating & doing some censored stuffsXXX as unhealthy living?
U r mixing too many things in one question. Watching porno, surely is unhealthy, it is specialy so when you watch it alone, as it leads to repeating the same things or performing the same acts as those depicted and if one is not married, this will lead to gunah.
Ibrahim..
<
But when you posted this message originaly, you did not mention the reference, as if the statement came from you. I am in no way able or qualified to render any judgement on what the great scholar A Y Ali has said, but I stand with my explanation of adulty and fornication. Thanx
To all....
we can go on and on like every other post or thread in this forume, eventualy reducing ourselves to name calling or personal attacks. We wont learn nothing with this intellectual masterbation. So get to the point as to what should one do if one is not able to get married.