What is Zina?

[quote]
Originally posted by zawiyaefikr:
**
To all....
So get to the point as to what should one do if one is not able to get married. **
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: Brother will you deny this command?

33 Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste until Allah gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum) give them such a deed if ye know any good in them; yea give them something yourselves out of the means which Allah has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them yet after such compulsion is Allah Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (to them).

I've said this before and i'll repeat once more..

If you do something that is against Islam then you are doing it out of your own free will. Don't justify it by saying it's ok to do it because it's 'natural' or a human response. Zina is Haram whether you like it or not... If you choose to do it, then it is your decision. A wrong is a wrong, no matter how sympathetic you are to it.

Cooldude bro, GOOD ANSWER

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

But this guy Mullah DoPiazza does not seem to be a Muslim at all. In “CORNER” of this forum, he says that all religions are man made. So, he is not gonna beleive in what you/we say

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/frown.gif


We oughta be Changez like, don’t we?

[This message has been edited by Changez_like (edited July 23, 2001).]

One question I have, I think I know the answer, but want to know opinion from others:

On "IRC", people indulge in 'cyber sex', discuss their experience (especially with opposite sex), has anyone sought ulema's opinion if it is ZINA as well?
Remember, in 'cyber sex' you are not seeing that person, you can't listen to that person (most of the time).


We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

[quote]
Originally posted by Changez_like:
**One question I have, I think I know the answer, but want to know opinion from others:

On "IRC", people indulge in 'cyber sex', discuss their experience (especially with opposite sex), has anyone sought ulema's opinion if it is ZINA as well?
Remember, in 'cyber sex' you are not seeing that person, you can't listen to that person (most of the time).

**
[/quote]

HAHAHAHAHAHA, Ulema and cyber sex, HAHAHAHA
WHAT WOULD THEY KNOW? HAHAHAHAHA

Ibrahim...
<<33 Let those who find ....>>

No I cant deny the command, but I can ask, the aya # and sura #. You just mention 33, which is insuficiant. Is it aya# or sura#??

[quote]
Originally posted by zawiyaefikr:
**Ibrahim...
<<33 Let those who find ....>>

No I cant deny the command, but I can ask, the aya # and sura #. You just mention 33, which is insuficiant. Is it aya# or sura#??**
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: salaams to all

sorry! my mistake that i forget to convey the small details for you to verify them.

Too many forums to monitor, i guess.

anyway the surah is from surah an-nur ( which deals with zina)

24:33 Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste until Allah gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum) give them such a deed if ye know any good in them; yea give them something yourselves out of the means which Allah has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them yet after such compulsion is Allah Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (to them). 2990 2991 2992 2993 2994

commentary from Yusof ali

2990 A Muslim marriage requires some sort of a dower for the wife. If the man cannot afford that, he must wait and keep himself chaste. It is no excuse for him to say that he must satisfy his natural cravings within or outside marriage. It must be within marriage. (24.33)

2991 The law of slavery in the legal sense of the term is now obsolete. While it had any meaning, Islam made the slave's lot as easy as possible. A slave, male or female, could ask for conditional manumission by a written deed fixing the amount required for manumission and allowing the slave meanwhile to earn money by lawful means. Such a deed was not to be refused if the request was genuine and the slave had character. Not only that, but the master is directed to help with money out of his own resources in order to enable the slave to earn his or her own liberty. (24.33)

2992 Where slavery was legal, what is now called the "white slave traffic" was carried on by wicked people like 'Abdullah ibn Ubai, the Hypocrite leader at Madinah. This is absolutely condemned. While modern nations have abolished ordinary slavery, the "White Slave Traffic" is still a big social problem in individual States. Here it is absolutely condemned. No more despicable trade can be imagined. (24.33)

2993 I have translated "in" (literally, "if") by "when" because this is not a conditional clause but an explanatory clause, explaining the meaning of "force". "Forcing" a person necessarily means that it is against the wish or inclination of the person forced. Even if they were to give a formal consent, it is not valid. (24.33)

2994 The poor unfortunate girls, who are victims of such a nefarious trade, will yet find mercy from Allah, whose bounties extend to all His creatures. (24.33)

Focus on where you want to go not on your fear!

[This message has been edited by Ibrahim (edited July 24, 2001).]

[quote]
Originally posted by Ibrahim:
** commentary from Yusof ali
2990 A Muslim marriage requires some sort of a dower for the wife. If the man cannot afford that, he must wait and keep himself chaste. It is no excuse for him to say that he must satisfy his natural cravings within or outside marriage. It must be within marriage. (24.33)**
[/quote]

I don't think Gift for the wife(Maher), is something that cannot be afford.

There is hadith of the prophet where a man got married to a woman with him teaching her few surah of Al-Quran.

There is also a hadith that a man got married to a woman with just a silver ring as Mahar.

When marriage becomes a difficult thing, Zina will start to look 'appealing' for the people.

[quote]
Originally posted by babydoll:
**
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Ibrahim:
** commentary from Yusof ali
2990 A Muslim marriage requires some sort of a dower for the wife. If the man cannot afford that, he must wait and keep himself chaste. It is no excuse for him to say that he must satisfy his natural cravings within or outside marriage. It must be within marriage. (24.33)**
[/quote]

I don't think Gift for the wife(Maher), is something that cannot be afford.
**
[/QUOTE]

Ibrahim says; salaams to all.

Yes! you can even marry a women with $1/- when both sides agrees to that gift.

Hence it is not the money, it is the principal that the man will be capable enought to undertake the responsibility of looking after the woman than after. This gift reveals his ability to do such things.

Marriages are made in heaven , but the married couples are responsible for maintenance!

I already asked this question in 1st page of this thread, but somehow is ignored.

Can anyone answer this one please:

On "IRC", people indulge in 'cyber sex', discuss their experience (especially with opposite sex), has anyone sought ulema's opinion if it is ZINA as well?
Remember, in 'cyber sex' you are not seeing that person, you can't listen to that person (most of the time).


We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

[quote]
Originally posted by Changez_like:
**I already asked this question in 1st page of this thread, but somehow is ignored.

Can anyone answer this one please:

On "IRC", people indulge in 'cyber sex', discuss their experience (especially with opposite sex), has anyone sought ulema's opinion if it is ZINA as well?
Remember, in 'cyber sex' you are not seeing that person, you can't listen to that person (most of the time).

**
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: Salaams to all,

Dear brothers and sisters, it is easy to understand this when we try to understand who are Muslims and what is required of them. Hence reading Surah Al-Muminun will provide the answers.

Surah 23

1 The Believers must (eventually) win through 2865
2 Those who humble themselves in their prayers; 2866
3 B}Who avoid vain talk;**
4 Who are active in deeds of charity;
5 **Who abstain from sex **2867

commentary:

2867 The Muslim must guard himself against every kind of sex abuse or sex perversion. The new psychology associated with the name of Freud traces many of our hidden motives to sex, and it is common knowledge that our refinement or degradation may be measured by the hidden workings of our sex instincts. But even the natural and lawful exercise of sex is restricted to the marriage bond, under which the rights of both parties are duly regulated and maintained. (23.5)

Further understanding toward this can be understood by knowing who will be the occupants of hell! By reading…..

74: 41 And (ask) of the Sinners:
42 "What led you into Hell-Fire?"
43 They will say: "We were not of those who prayed;"
44 "Nor were we of those who fed the indigent;"
45 "But we used to talk vanities with vain talkers;"
46 "And we used to deny the Day of Judgment"

Hence , What should Muslim do?? Read….

28:55 And when they hear vain talk they turn away there from and say: "To us our deeds and to you yours; peace be to you: we seek not the ignorant." 3387

Commentary:

3387 The righteous do not encourage idle talk or foolish arguments about things sacred. If they find themselves in some company in which such things are fashionable, they leave politely. Their only rejoinder is: "We are responsible for our deeds, and you for yours; we have no ill-will against you; we wish you well, and that is why we wish you to know of the knowledge we have received; after that knowledge you cannot expect us to go back to the Ignorance which we have left." (28.55)

more concerning vain talk and forbidden matters from hadiths

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith Hadith 2.555 Narrated by Ash shabi

The clerk of Al-Mughira bin Shu'ba narrated, "Muawiya wrote to Al-Mughira bin Shu'ba: Write to me something which you have heard from the Prophet (p.b.u.h)." So Al-Mughira wrote: I heard the Prophet saying, "Allah has hated for you three things:

  1. Vain talks, (useless talk) that you talk too much or about others.
  2. Wasting of wealth (by extravagance).
  3. And asking too many questions (in disputed religious matters) or asking others for something (except in great need). (See Hadith No. 591, Vol. Ill)

Does talking about sex amounts to zina?

Ibrahim says: From what I can understand by comparing various scriptures that had been revealed by Allah (swt) YES it does! we can understand this by looking at what Christ taught his followers.

Matthew 5

  1. I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.

  2. "You have heard that it was said, `Do not commit adultery.'

  3. But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

and according to Jewish law

Lev 20:10. "`If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

Such is what had been revealed to all generations hence Islam will not be exempt from such things.

Allah (swt) knows best!

WS

Love is not gazing at each other but looking together in the same direction!

[quote]
Originally posted by Changez_like:
I already asked this question in 1st page of this thread, but somehow is ignored.
Can anyone answer this one please:
**On "IRC", people indulge in 'cyber sex', discuss their experience (especially with opposite sex), has anyone sought ulema's opinion if it is ZINA as well?
Remember, in 'cyber sex' you are not seeing that person, you can't listen to that person (most of the time).

**
[/quote]

Cyber sex is like masturbation.

Bro Ibrahim, I agree with idea that its not permissible (cybersex), but the reasons you have put up from Quran not necessarily apply.

Especially you quoted ayats indicating the features of munafiqs/jahannumi 'vain talkers' but remember that it is "ANDed" with 'deny day of judgement'.

Anyway, thanks for your thought. And Babydoll, I think its more than masturbation.


We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

maybe these sites can help.

cybersex..http://www.pakistanlink.com/religion/2001/0413.html
http://www.muttaqun.com/qa/


All is the Beloved and the lover is a veil
The Beloved is alive and the lover is dead (RUMI)