Re: What is your argument against secularism?
THANK YOU!!!!
Second page. First post. Last line. First sentence.
Re-read. Thank you for agreeing with me. Its good to see the blind can be lead to the light!
AS I said earlier, please name a country that has gained points in HDI or advanced in any other way due to an increased role of religion in the state affairs.
Second, I said that Medieval Europe suffered greatly from Christianity. You have not yet disproved my point. Later man.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
It doesn’t matter what one group thinks. Show me some proof of the US government’s support for Israel for religious purposes. Has the President ever stood up and said “Israel is our ally because they are Jews” ?
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
He doesnt need to say it when everyone knows who are the groups rallying for support of Israel and there is no other reason for US to do so.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
AS I said earlier, please name a country that has gained points in HDI or advanced in any other way due to an increased role of religion in the state affairs.
Second, I said that Medieval Europe suffered greatly from Christianity. You have not yet disproved my point. Later man.
Seriously? Just look at the indicators on the list. Malaysia has gone up. So has Saudi Arabia. You got be freaking kidding me with this line or argument when the HDI shows Saudi had a 4 point increase in 2010.
Give up while you are ahead.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
^Do you understand WHY it remains low though? Standard of living is a HUGE part of the HDI. I wonder why all the nonsecular developed countries not getting ahead no matter their wealth.
These are directly from the link you provided:
The HDI combined three dimensions up until its 2010 report:
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
Now tell me do any of the mentioned above have a higher chance of growing in a nonsecular country than a secular one? I don't think so. The reason being in a religious based government, divine laws are considered more important than human life.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
Seriously? Just look at the indicators on the list. Malaysia has gone up. So has Saudi Arabia. You got be freaking kidding me with this line or argument when the HDI shows Saudi had a 4 point increase in 2010.
Give up while you are ahead.
To quote you: You are either just not too bright or too hasty.
[QUOTE]
please name a country that has gained points in HDI or advanced in any other way *due to an increased role of religion in the state affairs. *
[/QUOTE]
The Saudis have gone up in HDI because of their oil and it has nothing to do with Islam (unless you believe that they have oil coz they are Muslim).
Prove to me that it is because of Islam that the Saudis are now rich. Or if you can't, please don't humiliate your self further by coming up with more mumbo jumbo.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
He doesnt need to say it when everyone knows who are the groups rallying for support of Israel and there is no other reason for US to do so.
Ah, the "everyone knows" phrase. That always props up an argument so lets try it again:
Everyone knows my teddy bear ate my mobile.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
You are trying to discuss ideal secular system which does not exists today just like ideal religious system does not exist.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
You are trying to discuss ideal secular system which does not exists today just like ideal religious system does not exist.
Ideal systems never exist. But the current secular systems like Switzerland are much better than the current religious systems like Saudi Arabia.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
It doesn't matter what one group thinks. Show me some proof of the US government's support for Israel for religious purposes. Has the President ever stood up and said "Israel is our ally because they are Jews" ?
This group does'nt just think, it labbies for Israeli interest and shapes teh american foreign policy. And not everything is said in open, there is something called politicaly correct.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
This is from wikipedia
Starting in 1914, the involvement of Louis Brandeis and his brand of American Zionism made Jewish Zionism a force on the American scene for the first time, under his leadership it had increased ten-fold to about 200,000.[SUP][7]](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/#cite_note-6)[/SUP] As chair of the American Provisional Executive Committee for General Zionist Affairs, Brandeis raised millions of dollars to relieve Jewish suffering in war-torn Europe, and from that time “became the financial center for the world Zionist movement.”[SUP][8]](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/#cite_note-7)[/SUP] The British Balfour Declaration of 1917 additionally advanced the Zionist movement and gave it official legitimacy. The US Congress passed the first joint resolution stating its support for a homeland in Palestine for the Jewish people on September 21, 1922.[SUP][9]](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/#cite_note-8)[/SUP] The same day, the Mandate of Palestine was approved by the Council of the League of Nations.
Zionist lobbying in the United States aided the creation of the State of Israel in 1947-48. The preparation of and voting for the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine which preceded the Israeli Declaration of Independence, was met with an outpouring of an outpouring of Jewish American support and advocacy in Washington.[SUP][10]](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/#cite_note-9)[/SUP]
In 1844, Christian restorationist George Bush, a professor of Hebrew at New York University and ancestor of the Presidents Bush, published a book entitled The Valley of Vision; or, The Dry Bones of Israel Revived. In it he denounced “the thralldom and oppression which has so long ground them (the Jews) to the dust,” and called for “elevating” the Jews “to a rank of honorable repute among the nations of the earth” by restoring the Jews to the land of Israel where the bulk would be converted to Christianity.[SUP][2]](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/#cite_note-1)[/SUP] This, according to Bush, would benefit not only the Jews, but all of mankind, forming a “link of communication” between humanity and God. “It will blaze in notoriety…". “It will flash a splendid demonstration upon all kindreds and tongues of the truth.”[SUP][3]](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/#cite_note-2)[/SUP] The book sold about a million copies in the antebellum period.[SUP][4]](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/#cite_note-3)[/SUP] The Blackstone Memorial of 1891 was also a significant Christian Restorationist petition effort, led by William Eugene Blackstone, to persuade President Benjamin Harrison to pressure the Ottoman Sultan for the delivery of Palestine to the Jews.[SUP][5]](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/#cite_note-4)[/SUP][SUP][6]](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/#cite_note-5)
[/SUP]
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
Ah, the "everyone knows" phrase. That always props up an argument so lets try it again:
Everyone knows my teddy bear ate my mobile.
Kiyani announced that he ordered killing of Saleem Shehzad.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
^ This still doesn't prove that American policy towards Isreal is determined by religion. Show me something offcial, by the US government.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
Kiyani announced that he ordered killing of Saleem Shehzad.
As is claimed by many other journalists. Yet you believe the same journalists when they talk about the TTP and BLA being sponsored by India. Anyways, lets keep this discussion to the other thread, no need to derail this one.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
To quote you: You are either just not too bright or too hasty.
The Saudis have gone up in HDI because of their oil and it has nothing to do with Islam (unless you believe that they have oil coz they are Muslim).
Prove to me that it is because of Islam that the Saudis are now rich. Or if you can't, please don't humiliate your self further by coming up with more mumbo jumbo.
Page 2. First post. Last line. First sentence.
HDI has nothing to do with religion or secularism. Seriously, why can't you understand that little point. It was Theorist who made the claim and I refuted it. You are in fact agreeing with me.
Theorist what does standard of living have to do with Secularism. Actually tell me this. What does any of the indicators used have to do with secularism.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
Page 2. First post. Last line. First sentence.
HDI has nothing to do with religion or secularism. Seriously, why can't you understand that little point. It was Theorist who made the claim and I refuted it. You are in fact agreeing with me.
Theorist what does standard of living have to do with Secularism. Actually tell me this. What does any of the indicators used have to do with secularism.
I'm agreeing with you in a way, yes. But you still haven't said anything about Christianity holding back scientific progress in medieval Europe.
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
I never made that claim. So why should I say anything?
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
I never made that claim. So why should I say anything?
Um no, I did. In defense of secularism. Wake up man! We are discussing secularism here :p
Re: What is your argument against secularism?
Page 2. First post. Last line. First sentence.
HDI has nothing to do with religion or secularism. Seriously, why can't you understand that little point. It was Theorist who made the claim and I refuted it. You are in fact agreeing with me.
Theorist what does standard of living have to do with Secularism. Actually tell me this. What does any of the indicators used have to do with secularism.
Everything! every religion has a lifestyle it reccommends. Standard of living is affected when certain rights are not given due to some odd divine law. You can eliminate this when you have a secular government and you can see immediate change in lifestyle, attitude, which leads to a better standard of living. Saudi Arab doesn't let women drive and their reasoning is not political, it's RELIGIOUS! Burqa is enforced on women in Iran, not for political reasons, but religious ones. Husbands and fathers have certain rights which eventually let them win any court case in an Islamic country against women. There are too many personal things that are affected in the pocess, and a country with such ridiculous laws will never grow to its full potential because a good half of its population feel oppressed.
It's not like secularim will stop you from following your religion. It just stops you from poking your nose in others' business.