What is the proposed road map of Imran Khan

[yazdi]

Re: What is the proposed road map of Imran Khan

Brother, do not conclude ... please read. :)

Aap ko is baat say kiya iteraz hay?

If state is not government ... it is froces, judiciary and bureaucracy ... and they can arrange referendum ... but if people themselves do that and all accept than also it would be valid.

In western democracy ... people do that all the time. People start mini referendum on important issues by taking consent signature of the people. If they can take few tens of thousand signatures on approval of their issue, than even though it is not proper referendum, it is considered as important enough for government to act on it.

Even if government has to decide big issues, like UK entering European Union, instead of parliament taking decision on behalf of people, government go for referendum.

The problem is Imran Khan is not logical like you. He will never accept the proposal of a referendum.
He has to follow the scripted drama anyway.

Today is the day when PM house will be stormed. That's what he will call as referendum.

[Jolie]

Re: What is the proposed road map of Imran Khan

He is making it up as he goes along

I'd say he's revealing his policies one by one.

[COLD_FIRE]

Re: What is the proposed road map of Imran Khan

Whatever happens, happens. This is democracy. Turkey recently had elections followed by wide scale protests in which people protested right in front of the EC and parliament. Protests are a part of democracy.

Please dont quote Turkey and its protests here. They were neither for democratic reasons and not even on a wider scale. Further more those same small scale PROTESTS helped Erdogan to be re elected in office. For which I am very glad.

[Silaaj]

Re: What is the proposed road map of Imran Khan

@COLD_FIRE

Please dont quote Turkey and its protests here. They were neither for democratic reasons and not even on a wider scale. Further more those same small scale PROTESTS helped Erdogan to be re elected in office. For which I am very glad.

Protests Im referring to were after the elections…protesting rigging…and were on a decently large scale. This is democracy.
Election protests in Turkey as opposition cries foul | Reuters

[Hmmna]

Re: What is the proposed road map of Imran Khan

The problem is this third option can never get elected in any free and fair elections in this country due to ground realities. Thus this is choran tamasha.. being referred as revolution. BTW where are wide spread demonstrations in every nook and corner of the country against this pathetic government ?????

Why are PMLN so scared of them? If they pose no threat they should have refrained from rigging and investigated all claims fully.

[yazdi]

Re: What is the proposed road map of Imran Khan

Why are PMLN so scared of them? If they pose no threat they should have refrained from rigging and investigated all claims fully.

As I said the rigging mantra is not sellable now.. revolution choran is the latest product.

Tribunals which were the right forum to investigate rigging were already doing that !!!

Please concentrate on Azadi March as per script.. the latest episode today will be storming the PM house.

[GoldenAsif]

Re: What is the proposed road map of Imran Khan

aap to paray likhay aadmi hain asif sahib. I appreciate your passion for Ik but there is a constitutional path that needs to be followed. Constitution is very clear if PM resigns. please see my post above.

PD your point is well noted. I do not claim to be a constitutional expert. You learn something every day.

And no I do not worship IK (may have a soft corner for him because of his cricketing achievements. He is easily the most recognizable face from Pakistan in Britain, very well-respected here), nor do I hate NS. I would even say that governance-wise PML-N are 'slightly' better than PPP. I have repeatedly said here that cult worshipping is wrong

IK may be an honest man but I also know that can be a bit stubborn at times and has a big ego (NS as well). But if PTI can play a positive role in reforming the electoral process, that would be IK's biggest legacy (just like he was the first to insist on and introduce neutral umpires to test cricket)

[kakaballi]

Re: What is the proposed road map of Imran Khan

....IK may be an honest man but I also know that can be a bit stubborn at times and has a big ego (NS as well). But if PTI can play a positive role in reforming the electoral process, that would be IK's biggest legacy (just like he was the first to insist on and introduce neutral umpires to test cricket)

Did he protest at ICC headquarters for neutral umpires?

The protest would have had legitimacy if PTI had introduced amendments to relevant electoral laws in the parliament, discussed them in the parliament and found out no one is willing to debate or change the existing systems. That could have been a 'positive role' you are referring to.

What kind of logic is this: Negotiate with Taliban. No negotiations with Nawaz.

[GoldenAsif]

Re: What is the proposed road map of Imran Khan

^ I never agreed with his Taliban stance but the current fiasco could perhaps have been avoided if EC/Judiciary had taken prompt note of election rigging

In any civilized or truly democratic society the Supreme Court would have declared the election result null and void at the slightest indication of rigging in the election and ordered a full investigation. This is what should have happened in 2013. Whether it would have changed the overall election result is besides the point but rules are rules. They should have let the interim set-up continue until auditing of election had been completed. All the corrupt returning officers should have been held accountable and punished. But as it turned out later, the CJ was in cahoots with the Sharifs. Even if Ifti did not have a direct hand in rigging, we all know that his sympathies lay with the Sharif brothers. So nothing good or impartial could be expected from him. I did not agree with IK back then in 2008 when he repeatedly referred to CJ as a brave and honest judge. While the judiciary was freer than before I knew that it was far from being neutral or impartial.

The 2000 US Presidential election result was delayed for more than a month until a recount of defective ballots was completed in Florida.

[phoenixdesi]

Re: What is the proposed road map of Imran Khan

You) are desperately clutching at straws, trying to paint a bleak picture of hopelessness, which is far from reality. We have seen this from PMLN in the past as well, when they tried to scare public into thinking that voting for PTI would bring in Zardari.....and that supporting the long march would bring in the army etc etc. Enough hysterics.

If NS resigns, PMLN will install a replacement PM. That PM will have no choice but to conduct an immediate audit of the elections without exercising any control over EC or NADRA, and the future will depend on the result of the audit (otherwise we are back to square one, and IK wont need to call out to people). This has been the (legitimate) demand of PTI for the past 1 year. No rocket science there. If the audit proves rigging, midterm elections are a common sense result. If audit proves that rigging was minimal, then PTI takes a hit, and sits back.

Now I acknowledge the fact that when NS resigns, he still will be pulling the strings of the replacement PM. But in light of the long march and popular public support behind it (no matter what the media may have you believe), they wont be able to ignore or put off election audit any more. And with PTI lawmakers being a part of the process, the formulation of a new EC will (have to) be transparent and unbiased. If a new EC still ends up being shoddy, and new elections are once again rigged, then PTI will will be equally responsible for that.

Finally, please stop quoting a constitution that our govt violates 20 times a day.

jisay aap kee amrzie silaj sahib...i will stop quoting Constitution of pakistan...my bad!

I am not painting any bleak picture whatsoever. I am just quoting constitutional requirements. We have an exmaple when jamali resigned in 2003. Shujat took over as inetrim PM and we had a recount in which Shuakat aziz won. You go that path and you will have PMLN PM again as they have majority. second option is when PM Nawaz resigned in 1996 with an advice to president to dissolve assemblies. President has to dissolve assemblies per PM advice and conduct reelection with an interim setup which will be chosen by house of opposition leader and incumbent PM. Imran wont like that either.

hope you recognize that you just said that Imran is willing to negotiate with nawaz sharif's appointed PM...i mean Imran will be willing to negotiate with Nawaz's stooge but he does not want to negotiate directly with nawaz, which is a much better option...a great political wisdom?

Fine i will stop quoting constitutional requirements but then dont blame me when everything will be challenged in courts and imran will have a bigger battle to face...and by the way, yes you can violate constitution 20 times a day but at least a democratic govt has to do it through ordinances......so it is not exactly banana republic of Pakistan

[Shamraz_Khan]

Re: What is the proposed road map of Imran Khan

https://twitter.com/NadeemfParacha/status/502076553598341120

Nadeem F. Paracha ‏@NadeemfParacha 16m
“Shah Mehmood Qureshi says talks after resignation of Nawaz”

Huh? Talk with whom? The ex-PM?

[phoenixdesi]

Re: What is the proposed road map of Imran Khan

PD your point is well noted. I do not claim to be a constitutional expert. You learn something every day.

And no I do not worship IK (may have a soft corner for him because of his cricketing achievements. He is easily the most recognizable face from Pakistan in Britain, very well-respected here), nor do I hate NS. I would even say that governance-wise PML-N are 'slightly' better than PPP. I have repeatedly said here that cult worshipping is wrong

IK may be an honest man but I also know that can be a bit stubborn at times and has a big ego (NS as well). But if PTI can play a positive role in reforming the electoral process, that would be IK's biggest legacy (just like he was the first to insist on and introduce neutral umpires to test cricket)

I agree and i have been promoting this point throughout that had imran incorporated electoral reforms successfully with an independent election commission (ironically i also quoted his neutral umpires examples), it would have been an ehsan azeem on our generations but he went towards other path asking PM to resign. Now if PM resigns we have few constitutional requirements and i am merely pointing out those.

[Anwer_Pasha]

Re: What is the proposed road map of Imran Khan

Imran has proved that he is unreliable and his friends , his supporters and his opponent should know that no verbal or written agreement can not keep him bound .

Of wet shalwars and televised ‘revolutions’

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http://i.dawn.com/medium/2014/08/53f41c7da4f42.jpg?r=1749608800

[Silaaj]

Re: What is the proposed road map of Imran Khan

@Shamraz_Khan

https://twitter.com/NadeemfParacha/status/502076553598341120

Nadeem F. Paracha ‏@NadeemfParacha 16m
“Shah Mehmood Qureshi says talks after resignation of Nawaz”

Huh? Talk with whom? The ex-PM?

Are you intentionally ignoring the obvious? After Nawaz resignation, there will be a replacement PM from the assembly. Check the demands presented by PTI.

[Krypton]

Re: What is the proposed road map of Imran Khan

^he's communist, don't blame him

[Silaaj]

Re: What is the proposed road map of Imran Khan

jisay aap kee amrzie silaj sahib...i will stop quoting Constitution of pakistan...my bad!

hope you recognize that you just said that Imran is willing to negotiate with nawaz sharif's appointed PM...i mean Imran will be willing to negotiate with Nawaz's stooge but he does not want to negotiate directly with nawaz, which is a much better option...a great political wisdom?

You do realize that Nawaz and Shahbaz have a potential murder charge against them? Morally, and ethically, they should have resigned on day 1 of the model town incident, bt they didnt. Now we have a court order. Are we still talking of democracy here, or have we shifted to fiefdom?

Yes, after NS's resignation, assembly will elect another PMLN PM, but the actions expected from the new one will be the same. Election audit, punishment of culprits, overhaul EC, and new elections if enough frauds are discovered. Currently, NS and his monarchist style of governance is reflective of his fake mandate, and he has to go. PTI has tried to negotiate with them for the past 1+ year, and no response from NS. What makes him different now?

[phoenixdesi]

Re: What is the proposed road map of Imran Khan

You do realize that Nawaz and Shahbaz have a potential murder charge against them? Morally, and ethically, they should have resigned on day 1 of the model town incident, bt they didnt. Now we have a court order. Are we still talking of democracy here, or have we shifted to fiefdom?

Yes, after NS's resignation, assembly will elect another PMLN PM, but the actions expected from the new one will be the same. Election audit, punishment of culprits, overhaul EC, and new elections if enough frauds are discovered. Currently, NS and his monarchist style of governance is reflective of his fake mandate, and he has to go. PTI has tried to negotiate with them for the past 1+ year, and no response from NS. What makes him different now?

oh bhai meray....the right way to address these concerns is not to bring 20K people and shut down islamabad....you go through parliament. you present motion there..you introduce ordinances there....you do some agitation as well but you dont shutdown the capital and parliament until PM resigns..how many ordinances PTI brought in parliament? how much time Imran spent in parliament? on education, on energy, on envirnment, how many bills he or his leaders presented?

and you let ruling party to be exposed amid its bad governance and then you go for elections...remember what happened to PPP

kaya ho gaya aap logon ko...you worship personalities...what kind of precedence are you setting? tomorrow molana faz ur rehman will bring 50K people in Islamabad and will shut down imran's govt until imran resigns....what will you do then? had hai yaar

[Shamraz_Khan]

Re: What is the proposed road map of Imran Khan

^he's communist, don't blame him

Glad you manged to decipher from my post my philosophical leanings, but you sound mentally imbalance & professorial help is recommended. Now read the forum rules & specific section that says no personal attacks. If you need help let me know.

[Krypton]

Re: What is the proposed road map of Imran Khan

I knew I was right

[Silaaj]

Re: What is the proposed road map of Imran Khan

oh bhai meray....the right way to address these concerns is not to bring 20K people and shut down islamabad....you go through parliament. you present motion there..you introduce ordinances there....you do some agitation as well but you dont shutdown the capital and parliament until PM resigns..how many ordinances PTI brought in parliament? how much time Imran spent in parliament? on education, on energy, on envirnment, how many bills he or his leaders presented?

and you let ruling party to be exposed amid its bad governance and then you go for elections...remember what happened to PPP

kaya ho gaya aap logon ko...you worship personalities...what kind of precedence are you setting? tomorrow molana faz ur rehman will bring 50K people in Islamabad and will shut down imran's govt until imran resigns....what will you do then? had hai yaar

Like I said, PMLN is doing a very good job at spreading hysteria...so are you.

PTIs complaint is about electoral rigging. Elections are the one time in 5 years that the public gets to have a say. The issue is that the public did not get to have a say. That is a crime, last I checked the constitution. Now what has PTI done about it over the last year?
1. Go to PMLN as a party (4 constituencies demand).....no resonse. They accepted the demand on 2 different occasions on the floor of the house, but no progress on that.
2. Go to tribunals for justice. (38 out of 58 PTI petitions discharged so far....pretty much all of them on technicalities, and not based on vote recount).
3. Go to parliament. 2 bills filed. One for electronic voting, which was shot down by PMLN saying that pakistani public is ignorant and illiterate, and cant handle electronic voting...the other for electoral reforms, for which a committee was formed just 2 days before the long march was due to start. Too late in anyone's opinion.
4. Supreme court? SC says this is for tribunals to decide, but SC is more than happy to disqualify PTI MNA Ghulam Sarwar on fake degree issue without any tribunals intervention.
5. NADRA? NADRA chief was fired at 2am the night before he was due to verify votes in NA 118.
6. EC? Bull$hit org which cant even take responsibility for not making magnetic ink available, and is hiding behind excuses for the last year, and the govt does nto have any intentions of taking them to task.

So all I see is plenty of effort by PTI to do it the right way, and no effort or political will by PMLN or any govt institution under them to do anything, let alone do it the right away.

Now if Fazlurehman wants to bring in his madrassa kids into Islamabad and try to dislodge PTI govt if there is one, then yes, he has the right, provided he can come up with a valid argument. Otherwise he will be just a troublemaker, who has often been used by PMLN and other parties in the past solely to create trouble. People like him should be taken down at source. PTI on the other hand has had a valid argument, and that is why PMLN has not had the moral authority to tackle them in anyway. See the difference.