Excuse me People...but there seems to be bitching on all the threads I go to...and the bitching is happening before I arrive, so don't try to blame it on me.
Can you please stop beating each other up on who's a Indian, who's a Pakistani, who's an muslim first and then an Indian...
One vajpayee is enough! (sorry if that offended anyone)
Personally I think, Islam wants people to play it safe, and as long as something doesn't hurt anyone, or potentially doesn't hurt anyone, there is nothing wrong with it.
Flying a kite won't hurt anyone, except if you poke someone in the eye with it!
Saania Saeed,
Flying a kite won’t hurt anyone, except if you poke someone in the eye with it!<<
Now, NOw that kite won’t fly. Either Pakistan is an Islamic republic or it is not.
If it is no Kites and no Basant !! Ask Saudis or Taliban and they will tell you what they will do to people who dance around in Spring and fly kites!!!
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Because I asked that Valid question, namely how can Pakistan, supposedly an ‘Islamic’ republic hold with a Pagan festival like Basant and the people here started diverting the topic.
It took several aspects.
- I am nitpicking!!
- No Castes in Pakistan!!
3.Indian Muslims like andha_qanoon bhai here have a ‘Starnge Perspective’ whatever that means
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Now, I am not responsible if people start sidetracking the issue because they got no valid answers!!
Anyway tell me, How can Pakistani Governemnt not ban a Pagan festival like Basant?
andhra in besant they are not praying to anuthing . people are celebrating change of
season a happy occasion?
Na.. It is the Pagan aspect of it.
Basant is the perfect example of a Pagan festival, including occassional promiscousness and colors, dances and what have you.
People like Taliban and Saudi guys are right. Such festivals are unacceptable in a 'Religious' republic, when the REligion is clearly against it!!
..yep..and there are more than 2.5 crore muslim punjabi rajputs plus many in Sind.. with Rana,Rao Khokhar, chauhan, rajas etc as theiur family name.. dunno why r u surprised. As there are a lot of Jats with Bajwas, Cheemas, Waraich as their family name.
..yep..and there are more than 2.5 crore muslim punjabi rajputs plus many in Sind.. with Rana,Rao Khokhar, chauhan, rajas etc as theiur family name.. dunno why r u surprised. <<
I am 'Surprised' because all that is supposed to be washed away by Islam, which condones no 'Extra' identities.
Also if you notice, the existence of separate identities is accepted and celebrated in HInduism.
actually there is more in-breeding in pakistan . even the experts ask people
not to intermaary to avoid genetic diseases
like thalsemia.in india more genetic diversity among populations.
India has its problems, so does Pakistan. To revolve around the problems is to drown in them.
As far as Basant is concerned, I see no reason for disliking it. If you dont want to celebrate it, then dont. You should go him and PRAY for the salvation of the poor souls celebrating the only holiday in which they are allowed to openly enjoy themselves. World was created by god, some of it sucks, but some things are also sublime. Obviously if god didn't want us to enjoy the sublime, he wouldn't have created them.
Last, anyone that has a problem with Basant should have gone to make a new life for temselves, free of the evils of Kite flying, to Kabul or Jalabad under the Taliban, their sure to have gotten you into heaven (pehaps its not to late...)
About Caste,
Agreed there is a system of Caste in Pakistan, and probably in most other so called muslim states.
But then Pakistan is not in my oppinion, Islam.
As far as Islam is concerned, there is no Caste system.
In Hinduism, Caste is Institutionalized
within the religion.
To be Hindu is to belong to a Caste, To be a Muslim, is to belong to the Ummah, although that may not be apparent from the way many muslims practice their faith.
Regardles, in the eyes of god, all men are equal.
In Hinduism, all men are either Brahmins, untouchables, or some place in between.
Untouchables aren't even allowed to enter a temple. In Islam, anyone can enter a mosque.
Also, in Hinduism you are born into your Caste, with no hope of rising up a rank or two, how fair is that?
Its no wonder so many untouchables converted to Islam.
[quote]
Originally posted by Andhra:
**
I am 'Surprised' because all that is supposed to be washed away by Islam, which condones no 'Extra' identities.
**
[/quote]
...Islam never condones so-called extra- idendities unless they come in direct conflict with Islamic faith.. thats the very reason Islam is so flexible and is not restricted by local traditions and customs as in Hinduism.. Islam has become and increasingly becoming greatest religion on earth as its a universal religion and universal appeal.. Quran says that people are created in groups or clans for identification purpose and not as amark of superiority.. in Pakistan majority marries in their castes and is not against Islam but making itva staunch point is against Islam.. local customs and traditions are amalgated nicely within the limits of Islam..
.
[This message has been edited by Degas (edited February 24, 2002).]
Iam really appalled at your ignorennce and naiive. First of all since when is kite flying a “pagan” festival? WHat the hell kite flying to do anything with PAGANISM?
is there any universal religion called paganism? I know most hindus of india define their customs as “hinduism” which infact is a form of paganism as defined by Websters. But Basant has nothing to do with paganism neither it is haram in Islam.
Most probably it originated in the fertile plains of Pakistan during the harvest season as a celebration. Some people say that it originated on the eve of the dfeat of a muslim ruler and was instituted as a celebration. This later view then is said to be the grounds to ban the celebrating of basant on these grounds only but not the act of kite flying as such. In this regard then it is not part of cuyltural heritage but a
poltical statement. However, it is now clear that basant is in fact part of the culture of harvest with its origin largely the region of Pakistan.
And there is no such thing as islamic punishment for celebrating basant or independance day or marriage, defence day etc…
Its good you have a knack of asking questions…its a nice way to obiliterate one’s ignorence. However, state the questions the way they are supposed to be asked, not from a predecided conclusion. SO ask not what is the islamic punishment for celebrating basant, but, is celebrating basant illegal in Islam.
Iam really appalled at your ignorennce and naiive. <<
Well I am too!!
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It is Pakistanis themselves who are against Basant.
Here’s an excerpt from the ‘DEfense Journal’!!
The joint celebration of “Basant”, an Unislamic festival, fully participated in by the elite from across the border. <<
http://www.defencejournal.com/globe/2001/may/pakistan-ppf.htm
And they are still blaming Hindus and India!!
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This is from a Jihadi Article!!
When Taliban tried to purge their country of idols, these worshippers of culture went up in arms. Some so-called Muslims are also among them. It was due to our embracing of the Hindu culture that Sonia Gandhi declared to have defeated Pakistan on the culture front. Now Bal Thackeray having seen our obsession with Basant has said that this is the triumph of Hindu religion. So all these people are pointing out our idiocity but we still are busy following their agenda. Restriction on Jihad fund and Jihadic activities are also being imposed in this perspective.<< http://www.markazdawa.org/English/magazines/VOICE/march2001/editorial.htm
Now in case you don’t know I didn’t invent either Pak Military Journals or Jihadi Publications!!
Well than it boils down to why is basant celebrated? And if its origin is political and not motivated by cultural pattern such as harvest etc.. then perhaps it is infact unislmaic. My contention was that since the celebration was probably part of the agricultural culture, and since it involves flying kites then it has nothing to do with whether or not it is unislamic. If incase basant invvolves more than just flying kites or has an undertone of scoff to the religion of Islam, then yeah it is not Islamic.
Kinda changing tunes aren't you Sultan Toora?
You said.........
But Basant has nothing to do with paganism neither it is haram in Islam. <<
I gave references to two Pakistani said that plainly said Basant is unIslamic, which I have been saying myself.
Now you say..
If incase basant invvolves more than just flying kites or has an undertone of scoff to the religion of Islam, then yeah it is not Islamic. <<
When did your knowledge about Basant got more?
After reading those web pages I gave?
Does basant have to do anything with paganism?
If it does, any my assumnption that it didnt was wrong, then yeah it is haram...
The act of kite flying doesnot involve worshipping other god neither does it have any anti islamic religious undertones....If the particular kiteflying festival called 'basant" does infact involve worshipping other gods or has anti islamic religious undertones than it is haram.
whats the contradiction?
Well Said, Sultan Torra
Whats wrong with borrowing a few good ideas from Hindus? We should thank them for giving us Basant, if in fact it is a Hindu festival.
Problems with many Muslims is, that for them, anything new is Haram. Muslims need adapt whats good in other cultures rather then automatically label them as Haram.
Good On Yaa. Adnan!!!!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fayax: *
Well I dont have to defend what I am .
And if you are an indian First...then you shouldnt even call yourself a Muslim. I think you are an Idiot first.... enough said.
[/QUOTE]
ahem