what is the definition of Ahl ul Bayt

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

Dear Surdar Asif I did read in the fist place and have re-read them.

What do you want say about them (your posts)?

Time Pass... Feb 2014
22

Re: what is the definition of Ahl ul Bayt

Chosen family members are different from the general family members. Its a theme you will notice throughout the Holy Quran.

23

Care the address the following on righteous behalf?

If any one disputes in this matter with thee, now after (full) knowledge Hath come to thee, say: "Come! let us gather together,- our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves: Then let us earnestly pray, and invoke the curse of Allah on those who lie!" Quran - 003.061

aa'zaa ki shayari
24

That is an assumption, there is no proof that only those with Prophets in their offsprings are Ahl-e-Bait.

25

I will wait for brother righteous to explain this very beautiful verse himself.

H BirthDay ~*~HAKUNA MATATA~*~
26

He (righteous) better explain why Allah (swt) has used 'our women' (in plural) and not singular.

Allah's (swt) word can never ever be wrong - There are more ladies in noble group of Ahlel Bayt (raa) than what you want us to believe. And that can only mean the wives of the Prophet (saw)!!

Achi chai .....
27

Well I was just away for half a day and three questions for me. Well one question asked thrice.

If Allah had meant for the Prophet (SAW) to take one of his wives to Mubahila, he (SAW) would definitely have. So the representation cannot be established just because plural was be used. Secondly, if the Prophet (SAW) can bring his daughter out in the open (as you have put it) then why not the wives. Considering that the status of the daughter is over and above all of the women of the world.

*our sons and your sons, our sons = Hassan and Hussain
our women and your women, Our Women = Bibi Fatimah
ourselves and yourselves, Ourselves = Prophet (SAW) and Ali?

My question to you my dear Ibn Sadique is where does Ali come into the picture in this verse. Is Ali that high in status that he shares the self with Prophet (SAW)?
*
Why not Abu Bakr, he was the father in law and practically family or Umar for the same reason?

Can you please elaborate Ali being part of ourselves in this verse? I am a bit confused

28

Re: what is the definition of Ahl ul Bayt

ironic that we are still discussing this topic of who the pure Ahlay Bait (a.s.) of the Rasool Allah (s.a.w) are despite the Prophet himself pointing them out clearly on more than enough occasions......but i guess given we are still confused whether Rasool Allah (s.a.w.) performed salat with his hands on the chest, stomach, or straight despite him performing atleast 140,000 raka't in public during his life as a messenger of Allah, it shudnt b of too much surprise after all.

my question to my sunni friends including my old friend Ibn Sadique: please tell me why has your top Imam, Muhammad Ismail of Bukhara, in his writings followed the names of Ali, Fatima, Hasan, Hussain, with ALAIHAYSALAM and not the wives of the Prophet (s.a.w.)?

Afghan Wedding and their customs
29

Good try righteous – But nobody is going to buy that.
By saying “If Allah had meant this or that ......” You are trying to second guess what Allah (swt) wants to do.
The words of the Noble Quran are “OUR WOMEN” - THAT WHAT EXACTLY IS MEANT BY THAT IS THERE IS MORE THAN ONE WOMAN.

How can you justify this statement of yours?!!!!

[QUOTE]
our women and your women, Our Women = Bibi Fatimah
[/QUOTE]

I have heard Christian formula of: 1 = 3 - So please don't try to say that "Our Women" really means on Lady!!!

Other issues can be left for later.

Note: the question was asked trice as no one attempted to answer it and were waiting for you.

30

Laakh chopao nahi chopta. Thats the beauty of truth! they try to shun a fazilat of Panjatan Paak and more fazail come up. Subhan Allah :)

31

Salaam,

There are many Hadiths of Rasool Allah (saww) in regards to who the recipients of the Ayat of Tatheer (33:33) are. But if you are confused abou the Hadiths and wish to research purely from the Quran itself then the following will be beneficial to you, Insha Allah. wasalam.

[quote]

"O Prophet! say to your wives: If you desire this world's life and its adornment, then come, I will give you a provision and allow you to depart a goodly departing. And if you desire Allah and His Messenger and the latter abode, then surely Allah has prepared for the doers of good among you a mighty reward. O wives of the prophet! whoever of you commits an open indecency, the punishment shall be increased to her doubly; and this is easy to Allah. And whoever of you is obedient to Allah and His Messenger and does good, We will give to her her reward doubly, and We have prepared for her an honorable sustenance. O wives of the Prophet! you are not like any other of the women; If you will be on your guard, then be not soft in (your) speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease yearn; and speak a good word." (33:28-32)

If you read the Arabic, you will see that these verses are in the feminine gender usage, and are clearly directed towards the wives. The Surah continues:

"And stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore; and keep up prayer, and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O People of the House (Ahlul'bayt)! and to purify you a thorough purification." (33:33)

This is verse under discussion. The second sentence is the area of debate, and is known as Ayat Tatheer. It requires an examination using the Qur'an.

The Surah continues:

"And keep to mind what is recited in your houses of the communications of Allah and the wisdom; surely Allah is Knower of subtleties, Aware." (33:34)

If you examine the verses around Ayah Tatheer (second part of 33:33) you will find that the Qur'an is speaking strictly to the wives. The commands flow linguistically and maintain the theme even if you remove the second part of 33:33 from the verses cited above. The gender is changed from feminine to masculine for only this part of 33:33 -

إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنْكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرًا
"Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, Ahlul'bayt, and to purify you a (thorough) purifying."

Some Sunnis will argue that this verse is direct towards the wives due to its position in this Surah, but this is impossible because the gender usage is masculine, and not feminine. The verses preceding and proceeding the second part of 33:33 are in feminine gender usage, while the second part of 33:33 has changed its usage to masculine.

Other Sunnis have argued that Rasoolullah (a.s.) is with the wives in this part of the verse. Some others, in a similar fashion, have said that Rasoolullah (a.s.), Imam Ali (a.s.), Bibi Fatima (a.s.), Imam Hasan (a.s.), Imam Hussein (a.s.), AND the wives are the people within "Ahlul'bayt" (a.s.).

The quickest and easiest Qur'anic refutation of this argument is as follows:

The first part of 33:33 and the other verses around it are in reference to solely the wives. There is no argument there. However, in the second part of 33:33, there is a change in gender (from feminine "kun" to masculine "kum"). Allah is now addressing a new set of people. Sunnis argue "but the wives are still included." This is a logical fallacy in Ahlul'sunnah method of Tafseer, because according to Ahlul'sunnah, the title "Ahlul'bayt" is all-inclusive for Rasoolullah (a.s.), Imam Ali (a.s.), Bibi Fatima (a.s.), Imam Hasan (a.s.), Imam Hussein (a.s.), AND the wives. But we see here that the Sunnis are arguing that the purification mentioned is dependent upon the wives obeying the verses around the Ayat Tatheer. Well, where are the commands for the rest of Ahlul'bayt (a.s.) to obey in order to be purified? The purification mentioned in 33:33 MUST be unconditional, because if the Sunni argument were true, than the rest of Ahlul'bayt (not only the wives) would have been given conditions to follow just like the wives. But this is not the case. It thus shows that it is a completely different context and a completely different theme.

Thus, it is proven clearly and without a shadow of a doubt that this second part of 33:33 is a parenthetical verse (i.e. a verse which is embedded within a different set of verses). It is proven through this logical deduction that the purification mentioned in Ayat Tatheer is in fact unconditional and not dependent upon any order from Allah.

Some people have said that the verse says: "Allah only desires to REMOVE from you al-rijs".

These people have done tahreef of al-Qur'an and have attributed falsehood to it in order to hide the truth about this Ayah. It is in actuality "Allah only desires to KEEP AWAY from you al-rijs." The Arabic says "ankum al-rijs", not "minkum al-rijs", and 'ankum' denotes a continual and unbroken purification.

al-Rijs means ALL IMPURITIES. It is not a specific impurity, but refers to them all. For example, missing Salaah is impure, lying is impure, cheating is impure, and basically sinning in general is an impurity. Whoever is the recipient of such a divine verse is sinless (ma'soom).

People ask: "Well, why did Allah put this Ayat Tatheer in the middle of the the verses directed towards the wives? Is this not strange?"

In short, we say that it makes the Qur'an harder to tamper with, and is Allah's divine knowledge that He is able to create a very strong book which is hard to alter. Moreover, there are other places in the Qur'an where Allah has mentioned a new theme entirely in the midst of a flowing speech, even within a single verse. For example, 5:3. These parenthetical sentences are included within the flowing speech of the sentences around them:

"This day have those who disbelieve despaired of your religion, so fear them not, and fear Me. This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion."

As history shows, these two sentences were revealed entirely separate from the rest of the verse (i.e. in the final year of the Prophet's (a.s.) life at Ghadeer, when Ameer al-Momineen Ali ibn Abi Talib (a.s.) was appointed for the final time as the Prophet's (a.s.) designated successor.)

  • Syed Mansab Ali Jafri

[/quote]

Winning arguments to loose atl life
32

how conveniently you ignored my main question and accused me of using a christian trick (or jewish - remember ibn saba).

Please enlighten me how can the daughter represents all the wives of the Prophet (SAW) and if they do, then please highlight does it include all wives including the ones divorced by the Prophet (SAW) or the ones who have passed away?

All i can see is that Prophet (SAW) chose not to take any of his wives.

You can argue all you want to against the word of God and historical truth but you will only end of looking silly.

Now lets get back to my question. This is attempt 2 to solicit your answer.

				Originally Posted by **righteous** 					[http://www.paklinks.com/gs/images/buttons/viewpost.gif](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-scripture/348917-what-definition-ahl-ul-bayt-2.html#post6783234) 				
			*Well I was just away for half a day and three questions for me. Well one question asked thrice.

If Allah had meant for the Prophet (SAW) to take one of his wives to Mubahila, he (SAW) would definitely have. So the representation cannot be established just because plural was be used. Secondly, if the Prophet (SAW) can bring his daughter out in the open (as you have put it) then why not the wives. Considering that the status of the daughter is over and above all of the women of the world.

*our sons and your sons, our sons = Hassan and Hussain
our women and your women, Our Women = Bibi Fatimah
ourselves and yourselves, Ourselves = Prophet (SAW) and Ali?

My question to you my dear Ibn Sadique is where does Ali come into the picture in this verse. Is Ali that high in status that he shares the self with Prophet (SAW)?
*
Why not Abu Bakr, he was the father in law and practically family or Umar for the same reason?

Can you please elaborate Ali being part of ourselves in this verse? I am a bit confused*

33

i wonder y we are not discussing three other daughters of prophet

Hazrat Zainab
Hazrat Ruqqiya
Hazrat Umme Kulsoom

does the incident of Mubbahla was the only yardstick to identify the ahle bait ?
what about the daughters of prophet who had died before dat incident ........ shud we ignore them.

my question to those who says that there are only 5 ahle bait

further if there is hazrat ali then why not hazrat usman ( if becoming son in law is the criterion)

if there is hazrat ali then why not hazrat abdullah bin abbas (( if becoming cousin is the criterion, )

Winning arguments to loose atl life
34

Those are exactly the kind of questions that come in mind when one thinks thier own thinking is superior to the Prophet (saw). 'Why Imam Hassan/Hussain (as) and not hazrat Abbas, why Bibi Fatima (as) and not thier daughters.' why so and so and not so and so..?.but why? but why not..?..They're quite child-like and deifnately belie a lack of knowledge and understanding in Islam.

Im sure if you were living in the prophet (saw) time, you would have thought twice to ask such offensive questions.

When you come from the wrong angle from the start, you're bound to go off track. It is not for us to question the Prophet (saw) action here, his actions are infallible, and the will of God.

Finally to answer your question; in the shia view the Prophet (saw) only had one biological daughter, Bibi Fatima Zahra (as).

[quote]
does the incident of Mubbahla was the only yardstick to identify the ahle bait ?
[/quote]

No, by no means was it the only yardstick, they are so many events, so many traditons that point out the AHlul Bayt (as) and the succession of Imam ALi (As) that one would have to be blind from innermost not to see or understand.

I will post some later inshallah, but i could honestly write a book!

[quote]
my question to those who says that there are only 5 ahle bait

further if there is hazrat ali then why not hazrat usman ( if becoming son in law is the criterion)

if there is hazrat ali then why not hazrat abdullah bin abbas (( if becoming cousin is the criterion, )
[/quote]

I dont think you understand, there is no critera as such. It is the will of God.

Let me ask you why Hazrat Muhammad was chosen for Prophethood and not his father etc? why was He (saw) chosen and not the first caliph Abu Bakr? You could go on forever. Hope you get the point how futile your question is.

35

Well that part would be quite obvious considering we tend to quote sunni books to prove our point. And still folks tend to ignore ir or or put thier own slant on things because it doesnt agree with what theyve been taught, that is where the ego comes in.

But hey so long as we're adding anyone and everyone according to our will, add me as well afterall with that logic, why should syeds today be exempt? heck Zakaat is forbidden on me too!! does that not make me the Ahlul Bayt??

This is what happens when qiyas come in and this is why we believe it is haram.

36

righteous, you haven’t addressed the main issue raised by me.

Allah (swt) has used the word “our women” and this clearly to any sane fair-minded person can only mean that there are more than one ‘woman’.

Do you dispute this?

If you answer this we can move on.

Our Women = Bibi Fatimah plus others would make more sense.

To me this the most important point the rest are secondary issues.

Allah (swt) has stated “OUR WOMEN” and that means more that one!!

I am sorry you have got me wrong. Believe me it was not my intention nor was I accusing of using any Christian/Jewish tricks.

All I was trying convey the message was that:

If it is one than it should be only one and If the word is in plural then it cannot mean only one but more than one.

My apologies if you understood me otherwise.

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Re: what is the definition of Ahl ul Bayt

Salaam Brother Ibn Sadique, How you been? Good to see you around. :-)

I read the full ahadith, and the bold part tells me straightaway that the Prophet (saw) clearly differentiated the wives from his offsprings through Imam Ali (as). One was the AhlulBayt and the others were normal family.

Ofcourse nobody can or will deny that wives are not part of a regular family, but there is a clear and specific diffrentiation between the normal family from the chosen and purified Ahl ul Bayt (as), whom Prophet (saw) mentioned in his speeches and asked us to follow and that the Holy Quran mentioned as purified. You seem to be confusing the two.

Let me give you an example, Imam Ali (as) daughters bibi Zainab and Umm Kulthum, they were highly respected and beloved members of the family, yet they were not considered Ahl ul Bayt for the same reason. So there is a clear distinction between the normal wives and kids (and honorary members such hazrat Bilal and Salman al farsi), and the designated authority of the pure Ahl ul Bayt by the Prophet (saw).

The wives have thier own status and importance in the Quran as ummul mo'mineen, and although not infallible nor given a position of authority/leadership, they have thier own respected status for the muslims, in that they are forbidden to remarry after the Prophet (saw) passed away, and for that reason were given the title of mother of the believers, so that they were mahrams in one sense.

This is clearly explained in the ahadith where Bibi Umme Salma asked the Prophet (saw) if she could join the panjatans inside the cloak;
Umm Salama said: "O Prophet of Allah! Am I not one of the members of your family?" The Holy Prophet replied: "You have a good future but only these are the members of my family. O Lord! The members of my family are more deserving." Sunni reference: al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v2, p416

So if you study this hadith, you will see 2 things that are glaringly obvious, 1) the wives are not part of the the purified Ahl ul Bayt (as), 2) The context the verse was revelaed in clearly points out who the true Ahlul Bayt are. This argument would have been settled along time ago, if only people opened thier mind and decreased thier egos.

38

Salaams sister MaMooli – This is not true there are many Shia Ulemah who believe and rightly so that Prophet Muhammad (saw) had four daughters and this well documented.

Time Pass... Feb 2014
39

Sister **MaMooli ** It’s good to see around you too. (You owe me a reply – I sent you and e-mail on 26/12 – you can guess why? :flower2: :flower2:

Just to point to you that the Prophet (saw) did not utter the words you have attributed to him.

I have highlighted them.

Post a pic of what a guppy may look like
40

Re: what is the definition of Ahl ul Bayt

That wasnt a quote, but I inserted one later on once I found the hadith. Do you have a different version of it? if so please post it.

ps. I replied via my profile msg??

Post a pic of what a guppy may look like