I am trying to find what Imran thinks about Pak’s creation and support of Afghan Taliban.
I know there are many Imran supporters present on this forum. So can anyone of them tell us his view-point?
Re: What is Imran's stance on Pak's creating and supporting Taliban against Afghan NA
His view is that of hamid gul's view.
Re: What is Imran’s stance on Pak’s creating and supporting Taliban against Afghan NA
Perhaps you need to also look into the reasons why some of these people are forced to resort to such extreme and desperate measures such as suicide bombing. I am not condoning their acts for a minute. Everyone here knows that I have no love lost for extremists like Taliban and Al-Qaeda but we cannot look at the problem just from one side. The fact of the matter is many innocents are being killed in FATA day in, day out which is only perpetuating the problem of extremism. When you kill innocent women and children thru drones and bombardment via F-16 etc. and conveniently call it collateral damage what do you expect? Will their children become doctors and engineers?
Imran Khan at IQRA University, Karachi, 22 Feb 2011
(start watching from 29:00)
Re: What is Imran's stance on Pak's creating and supporting Taliban against Afghan NA
Oh jez. How many times do we need to debunk the drone theory of the taleban. How many drone attacks happened in Swat and Buner Reverse Swing?
What is your evidence that suicide bombers generally, or even in a high proportion are those who have lost family members in drone attacks? Also, do you feel that Taleban are attractive to the people they subdue and control?
Re: What is Imran's stance on Pak's creating and supporting Taliban against Afghan NA
oh please, Taliban are not the victims of oppression but rather the oppressors themselves.
Re: What is Imran’s stance on Pak’s creating and supporting Taliban against Afghan NA
I was not asking about the justifications at all. I just wanted to know what Imran thinks about Pakistan’s creation of Taliban in 90s and their jihad in Afghanistan against Northern Alliance.
Again. Americans and drone attacks are the things of 2000’s. The question was about 1990’s.
Re: What is Imran's stance on Pak's creating and supporting Taliban against Afghan NA
oh please, Taliban are not the victims of oppression but rather the oppressors themselves.
Who is denying that? but you cannot keep killing innocents (& calling it collateral damage) and hoping that the situation w'd return to normal by some miracle!
Oh jez. How many times do we need to debunk the drone theory of the taleban. How many drone attacks happened in Swat and Buner Reverse Swing?
What is your evidence that suicide bombers generally, or even in a high proportion are those who have lost family members in drone attacks? Also, do you feel that Taleban are attractive to the people they subdue and control?
That is just commonsense. Not all but some of them I am sure have turned to extremism..
Jez. Don't be so naive. The oppressors of Swat, some of them were the same people who had fled from FATA.
Military force alone is not the solution. It has to be both political + military. We have only seen a rise in extremism if anything since 2005. If the reverse was true the situation should be getting under control by now. Until and unless the Americans get the hell out of Afghanistan I cannot see the security situation normalising in Pakistan.
Re: What is Imran’s stance on Pak’s creating and supporting Taliban against Afghan NA
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSf7duKnSatAgX8YnDp772Bz4kgQ0wnfaLNLoklTgzYgd_cCOjmUfSb8MM
Very simple. IK was happy with MUSH
but when he didn’t provide him 100 required seats he went with Taliban.
Now again with Establishment.
Re: What is Imran's stance on Pak's creating and supporting Taliban against Afghan NA
That is just commonsense. Not all but some of them I am sure have turned to extremism..
So it is your conjecture. You have no basis for saying so, Imran Khan has no basis for saying so. Its the most common claim made since then, with zero evidence, and accepted on faith. We have lost count of the number of bombings and they receive a lot of coverage. Please provide some info on which of those you or Imran Khan know to have had family members killed by drone attacks. Remember that you made a plain claim in your first post that people's family being killed by drone attacks was the reason why they are forced to resort to suicide bombing.
What about the innocents killed by the Taleban (in the areas they control lets say). Do they suicide bomb Taleban?
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Jez. Don't be so naive. The oppressors of Swat, some of them were the same people who had fled from FATA.
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Name names please. 'Some' of them had fled from FATA, can you tell us about the proportion of those who had fled from FATA, how many of them were affectees of drone attack. Also, it has been very widely reported that the oppressors in Swat killed many Swaties. Do you think people are going from Swat to suicide bomb random people in FATA.
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Military force alone is not the solution. It has to be both political + military. We have only seen a rise in extremism if anything since 2005. If the reverse was true the situation should be getting under control by now. Until and unless the Americans get the hell out of Afghanistan I cannot see the security situation normalising in Pakistan.
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Walk us through, step by step, what happens in Pakistan under a political + military solution please. This is a much talked about approach, but without any elaboration on what exactly the terms of the negotiations will be. Assume for the moment that the situation in Afghanistan is that status quo.
Re: What is Imran’s stance on Pak’s creating and supporting Taliban against Afghan NA
One of the suicide bombers, a girl (cannot remember if it was Parade Lane Mosque Attack or a more recent atrocity in 2010) was a Lal Masjid affectee. It was even reported in the papers
You have to engage with the moderate non-violent elements within Taliban (I am sure dialogue is aready happening but perhaps not enough emphasis is placed on it) & educate them…in short divide and rule
AP yaar aap blame everything on establishment or takht-e-Lahore
btw it is now time to revive your janam pushti ‘another MNA of PML-N doing the same…’ thread 
Re: What is Imran's stance on Pak's creating and supporting Taliban against Afghan NA
One of the suicide bombers, a girl (cannot remember if it was Parade Lane Mosque Attack or a more recent atrocity in 2010) was a Lal Masjid affectee. It was even reported in the papers
Wait a second. Lal Masjid != Drone Attack! I am asking about TTP. Every damn time TTP do a suicide bombing, Imran Khan talks about drone attacks. The perpetrators are usually known, Im asking if you have any evidence that they are typically, or in some sizable proportion drone attack affectees, as you claimed and as Imran Khan always claims.
It isnt as if there is a lack of data. Yet why do you think Imran Khan, despite making this claim for several years, has not made available a study on the proportion of suicide bombers who were just angry young men forced to strike against a system that had let them down when they saw loved ones die through drone attacks and F-16s. If he has any such data, and he really should to be making this claim for so long, please reference it.
How can you take such an argument seriously? Im amazed that it is accepted at face value, just because its coming from a charismatic leader.
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You have to engage with the moderate non-violent elements within Taliban (I am sure dialogue is aready happening but perhaps not enough emphasis is placed on it) & educate them...in short divide and rule
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Perhaps not enough emphasis? Why do you say that, on what basis. Is that more conjecture. Also, which are the moderate, non-violent elements within Taleban? There are surely Taleban we prefer, Taleban who are violent on the other side of the border. But its a stretch to call them moderate and its a stretch to call them non-violent.
But lets say we did talk to the non-violent Taleban. That after all is the allegation against us. That we continue to keep a certain proportion of these snakes as pets. What do you think we should do with the violent Taleban? Specifically, TTP, Lashkar e Jhangvi,and other such organizations. What is the approach there.
Re: What is Imran's stance on Pak's creating and supporting Taliban against Afghan NA
Wait a second. Lal Masjid != Drone Attack! I am asking about TTP. Every damn time TTP do a suicide bombing, Imran Khan talks about drone attacks. The perpetrators are usually known, Im asking if you have any evidence that they are typically, or in some sizable proportion drone attack affectees, as you claimed and as Imran Khan always claims.
How is a drone victim different from a Lal Masjid victim as far as their suffering is concerned? I just gave it as an example?
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It isnt as if there is a lack of data. Yet why do you think Imran Khan, despite making this claim for several years, has not made available a study on the proportion of suicide bombers who were just angry young men forced to strike against a system that had let them down when they saw loved ones die through drone attacks and F-16s. If he has any such data, and he really should to be making this claim for so long, please reference it.
How can you take such an argument seriously? Im amazed that it is accepted at face value, just because its coming from a charismatic leader.
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Where is the data? Besides who's going to collect data from a war-torn area, a rugged terrain which is being shelled and bombarded almost on a daily basis. Perhaps the army even does not know every chuppa chuppa of FATA after 6 years of war.
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Perhaps not enough emphasis? Why do you say that, on what basis. Is that more conjecture. Also, which are the moderate, non-violent elements within Taleban? There are surely Taleban we prefer, Taleban who are violent on the other side of the border. But its a stretch to call them moderate and its a stretch to call them non-violent.
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Are you saying that everyone living in FATA = Taliban? Many in FATA get sucked into the extremist world view when all they see is darkness and carnage around them.
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But lets say we did talk to the non-violent Taleban. That after all is the allegation against us. That we continue to keep a certain proportion of these snakes as pets. What do you think we should do with the violent Taleban? Specifically, TTP, Lashkar e Jhangvi,and other such organizations. What is the approach there
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OK go & kill each and every one of them. Good Luck with that!
Re: What is Imran's stance on Pak's creating and supporting Taliban against Afghan NA
How is a drone victim different from a Lal Masjid victim as far as their suffering is concerned? I just gave it as an example?
They are different organizations. The claim specifically has been made about Taleban and drone strikes. Back it up with evidence pertaining to those two things.
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Where is the data? Besides who's going to collect data from a war-torn area, a rugged terrain which is being shelled and bombarded almost on a daily basis. Perhaps the army even does not know every chuppa chuppa of FATA after 6 years of war.
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What I meant by data was you atleast usually know who the bombers are. You are telling me its impossible to find after hundreds of suicide bombings, any suicide bombers who were motivated by drone attacks?
There have been reports of Taleban forcing parents to give up children. There have been reports of Taleban brainwashing children in madressas. This is not to mention the true believers, people who do want sharia in Pakistan, people who do want to kill shias and ahmedies. People who do feel they are on a holy war against America. What evidence do you have of the revenge motive making up a sizable proportion of the suicide bombers as opposed to these factors?
Why do you feel Imran Khan pushes the angry young grieving men blowing themselves up in desperation angle? Is it because that message is much more saleable? Do you feel that when he paints this as about angry young misunderstood men after say the ahmedies have been killed in Lahore, he is performing an act of omission in neglecting to talk instead about their attitude towards minorities, their disgusting form of Islam, their reprehensible treatment of women..
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Are you saying that everyone living in FATA = Taliban? Many in FATA get sucked into the extremist world view when all they see is darkness and carnage around them.
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Well thats how you see suicide bombing to work right? Someone sees their family destroyed violently, straps on a bomb and goes kills those whom he sees as the killers. Therefore, those who were victims of Taliban, having the same psyche, would go and blow themselves up in areas they see as taliban strongholds.
Im just saying if this is a legitimate cause and effect, it should hold in contexts outside of drone strike.
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OK go & kill each and every one of them. Good Luck with that!
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Hah! Come on. What is the solution for dealing with the violent Taleban. You proposed a solution, whats the answer. I always hear this from people who are swayed by IK, that we should talk to the non-violent taleban. Well if they are non-violent, theres no point in talking to them because its the violence we are concerned with. As for the violent ones, they have nothing to answer.
Re: What is Imran’s stance on Pak’s creating and supporting Taliban against Afghan NA
They were called ‘Mujahideen’ at that time, much loved and sponsored by dear Uncle Sam. Imran’s view is consistent that we are paying price of being blind ‘allies’ of the US over the decades.
You guys believe all the lies lies lies repeated by the media.
Re: What is Imran's stance on Pak's creating and supporting Taliban against Afghan NA
US is negotiating with the Taliban in Afghanistan, most likely, Americans are going to implement Taliban backed govt in Afghanistan as part of their honorable withdrawal strategy. In this scenario, Pakistan need to have clear vision and plan to deal with its immediate neighbor inorder to have peace and harmony in the region.
We need to work out strategy, that is, We should engage with Afghan Taliban and use their influence and information on terrorist groups acting in Pakistan. I think Imran have same strategy, infact any sane leader would have same strategy, unless and until he have sold his sanity and to please their pay-masters would continue to fight with Afghani Taliban consequently turning the country into economic disaster...
Just a Question for OP ( i hope he answers it)
What would be the strategy of MQM or what is your view point, if US finalize an arrangement with Afghan Talibans and signs peace-treaty with them? where do you stand on that???
Re: What is Imran's stance on Pak's creating and supporting Taliban against Afghan NA
Did you meant ANP or is Karachi now part of an area swap with Taliban?
I'm saying in general that what majority of thick-headed paranoid pakis don't get is America can withdraw tomorrow and close its borders to Muslim states like Pakistan, but Pakistan already have these snakes in and next door unlike America. Neocons aren't blowing themselves up at MSNBC or at Soro's house. I just thought I should say even when many thick heads here will still regurgitate the same bs.
Re: What is Imran’s stance on Pak’s creating and supporting Taliban against Afghan NA
Word 
Back in the day they even sent Rambo in to help… 
Okay jokes aside Reverse Swing has made some very valid points.
I am no Taliban supporter but I recognise that they are part and parcel of the Afghan political system, America may not be in the region forever but the Taliban and thier like have always been part of Afghanistan and it’s Pakistan that will have to learn to live with the extremists.
Diplomacy is the only reasonable way to solve this mess. Violence will only conitnue to grow unless the root causes are tackled, take away a mans reason for fighting and you’ve won… simple.
Re: What is Imran’s stance on Pak’s creating and supporting Taliban against Afghan NA
So you/IK feels that regardless of what Uncle Sam wanted to do, we should never have supported the Taliban in the mid-90s (after the fall of USSR etc)
Re: What is Imran's stance on Pak's creating and supporting Taliban against Afghan NA
They were called 'Mujahideen' at that time, much loved and sponsored by dear Uncle Sam.
To be sure. I am not asking about "mujahideen" of Soviet era. I am talking about Taliban of 90s and their war against Northern Alliance in Afghanistan. And Imran's view on it. (Not yours.)
Re: What is Imran's stance on Pak's creating and supporting Taliban against Afghan NA
Did you meant ANP or is Karachi now part of an area swap with Taliban?
I'm saying in general that what majority of thick-headed paranoid pakis don't get is America can withdraw tomorrow and close its borders to Muslim states like Pakistan, but Pakistan already have these snakes in and next door unlike America. Neocons aren't blowing themselves up at MSNBC or at Soro's house. I just thought I should say even when many thick heads here will still regurgitate the same bs.
First perpetuate the problem and then leave when it suits you, when things go haywire. How very convenient! Americans are hopelessly stuck in Afghanistan, the WOT is going nowhere and they know it. Agreed we would still have these religious nutjobs regardless of the American presence in Afghanistan. But those who fail to see a cause and effect relationship between what is happening in Afghanistan/FATA and the rise of extremism are also living in cuckoo land. Even if the US did not start the problem that we are seeing in Afghanistan and Pakistan now, they are certainly perpetuating it. These people did not become extremists overnight. They have been radicalised over the past three decades by events happening in the region starting from the soviet invasion in the late 70s. All they have seen is destruction and carnage in that time.
Fault lies in our education system and esp. with molvis as well, the vast majority of whom are not enlightened. Pakistani masses esp. are very vulnerable and emotional when it comes to religion, more so than other muslims (that is my neutral observation, don't know why). They are often the ones who make the biggest noise and overreact every time someone insults Islam or our Prophet pbuh.
Americans leaving Afghanistan won't make the problem disappear overnight but it w'd significantly abate IMO