What is god achieving

[Fayz]

..out of putting humans through a test.

Why would there be a need to create humans, give them free will and punish them for committing sin.

No sarcastic or smart ass comments please. I would like to know how you see it.

Please move it to philosophy forum if it doesn’t fit here. I’m more interested in knowing from an Islamic perspective though.

[AQ]

Re: What is god achieving

I dunno about any god.. but God has already sent a Quran stating all such questions.

[Lajawab]

Re: What is god achieving

Because we come to love the life of the earth, which in Allah :swt:'s time frame is about two seconds…

According to a Hadith, when the angels will ask man, how long were you on earth for?

Man will reply, 2 days…

In these two days we have to prove to Allah :swt: to be deserving of the rewards He has for us…We gain those rewards by worshipping and obeying Him…And man, being what he is, myopic, greedy, avaricious, thinks life on earth is all there is to it…

It is said, that if you had the entire pleasures and amenities that this earth has to offer, it would not equate to a foot of what Allah :swt: will bestow upon His most lowest of believers…

So, again, imagine having two students…One giving you a finger and one willing to put his head on your feet out of love…Who would you adore more?

The tests and trials are a chance for one to become closer to God…And those that God loves, He puts through afflictions, so that a person may be patient and just for being patient for two days, he gets an eternity of Paradise…

It’s all about realizing reality…

[Sadiyah]

Re: What is god achieving

Allah (SWT) is the All Knower and only He (SWT) knows the Unseen. I’m sure every single one of us believes and claims that we are by far the most devoted believers and followers of Islam and would stay steadfast in both good and bad. The tests that we are faced with are there for us to realize what our commitment and faith is like and/or so that it becomes apparent where we stand.

There are plenty of verses in Quran on this topic. Here’s one that I could find with it’s tafsir:

Do people think that they will be left alone because they say: “We believe,” and will not be tested. [Quran 29:2]

(Do people think that they will be left alone because they say: "We believe,‘’ and will not be tested.) This is a rebuke in the form of a question, meaning that Allah will inevitably test His believing servants according to their level of faith, as it recorded in the authentic Hadith:

«أَشَدُّ النَّاسِ بَلَاءً الْأَنْبِيَاءُ، ثُمَّ الصَّالِحُونَ، ثُمَّ الْأَمْثَلُ فَالْأَمْثَلُ، يُبْتَلَى الرَّجُلُ عَلَى حَسَبِ دِينِهِ، فَإِنْ كَانَ فِي دِينِهِ صَلَابَةٌ زِيدَ لَهُ فِي الْبَلَاء»

(The people most severly tested are the Prophets, then the righteous, then the next best and the next best. A man will be tested in accordance with the degree of his religious commitment; the stonger his religious commitment, the stronger his test.) This Ayah is like the Ayah,

أَمْ حَسِبْتُمْ أَن تَدْخُلُواْ الْجَنَّةَ وَلَمَّا يَعْلَمِ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ جَـهَدُواْ مِنكُمْ وَيَعْلَمَ الصَّـبِرِينَ ]

(Do you think that you will enter Paradise without Allah knowing those of you who fought (in His cause) and knowing those who are the patient) (3:142) There is a similar Ayah in Surat At-Tawbah. And Allah says:

أَمْ حَسِبْتُمْ أَن تَدْخُلُواْ الْجَنَّةَ وَلَمَّا يَأْتِكُم مَّثَلُ الَّذِينَ خَلَوْاْ مِن قَبْلِكُم مَّسَّتْهُمُ الْبَأْسَآءُ وَالضَّرَّآءُ وَزُلْزِلُواْ حَتَّى يَقُولَ الرَّسُولُ وَالَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ مَعَهُ مَتَى نَصْرُ اللَّهِ أَلاَ إِنَّ نَصْرَ اللَّهِ قَرِيبٌ ]

(Or think you that you will enter Paradise without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you They were afflicted with severe poverty and ailments and were so shaken that even the Messenger and those who believed along with him said, "When (will come) the help of Allah’’ Yes! Certainly, the help of Allah is near!) (2:214) Allah says here:

وَلَقَدْ فَتَنَّا الَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِهِمْ فَلَيَعْلَمَنَّ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ صَدَقُواْ وَلَيَعْلَمَنَّ الْكَـذِبِينَ ]

(And We indeed tested those who were before them so that Allah will know those who are true, and will know those who are liars.) meaning, He will make know which are sincere in their claim to be believers from those who are lying. Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, knows what has happened in the past and what is yet to come, and He knows how that which will not happen would have happened if it were to happen. All the Imams of Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaah are agreed on this. This is the view of Ibn Abbas and others concerning phrases such as the Ayah,

إِلاَّ لِنَعْلَمَ]

(only that We know) (2:143). Meaning, only to see – because seeing has to do with what is there, but knowledge is broader than seeing, since it includes what is not present as well as what is.

Source: http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=29&tid=39614

[xlnc786]

Re: What is god achieving

@Fayz

..out of putting humans through a test.

Why would there be a need to create humans, give them free will and punish them for committing sin.

No sarcastic or smart ass comments please. I would like to know how you see it.

Please move it to philosophy forum if it doesn’t fit here. I’m more interested in knowing from an Islamic perspective though.

Most of Muslim scholars regard our life as the time b/w a Azan and its Nimaz .. as we are born Azan is given in our ear and when we die our Nimaz-e-jinazah is offered. So this test is only for a time that is just like a spark of time as compared to life after death. As in Quran is said … On judgment day an angel will call upon that seprate you ppl in two groups .. One who did good deeds all their life and other of those who did fitna and obeyed devil in this very damn little time … With all the free will and with all the comforts if we cant just obey our GOD for a spark of time .. Then curse me and my life.

[queer]

Re: What is god achieving

i dont even understand how it is a test when God is all knowing. he already knows what will happen, and it is also his will. where is the test?

[armughal]

Re: What is god achieving

a very common thing u hear from teachers and professors is that 50% of the solution of the exam paper is just to understand the questions....
unlucky for u that u still cud not understand the test; solution is way off for u....

[queer]

Re: What is god achieving

armu, forget getting personal. if you can explain it, do so.

[Lajawab]

Re: What is god achieving

@queer

i dont even understand how it is a test when God is all knowing. he already knows what will happen, and it is also his will. where is the test?

The test is for you…He knows everything, yet, you have the power of will to turn your fate…

[queer]

Re: What is god achieving

if he knows everything as you say, doesnt he know the outcome of the test as well?

[skhan]

Re: What is god achieving

You raise good questions, but understanding the true reasoning behind God's motives is way out of our league. Which is why we have been encouraged not to dwell too much on issues we cannot understand.

[Lajawab]

Re: What is god achieving

^^

Amen to that...

But see, Queer's a scientific mind...For him this is tantamount to believing in the unseen which for us Muslims is the same as Shirk...

So he'll probably think that this is a religion of fools and think Muslims are dumb...

[MizzSilk]

Re: What is god achieving

@Fayz

..out of putting humans through a test.

Why would there be a need to create humans, give them free will and punish them for committing sin.

No sarcastic or smart ass comments please. I would like to know how you see it.

Please move it to philosophy forum if it doesn’t fit here. I’m more interested in knowing from an Islamic perspective though.

If there was no free will we would b like robbots doing everythin God commands and the world would have been perfect, there would b no need 4 hell an every1 would b forced to love God. God wants us 2 develop our own love for him by making the right choices between right and wrong, now if the wrong never got punished then it would not be fair on the right. Basically free will was developed so God could c how much we love him, God hasnt put soo much presure on us hes given us a concious that helps us follow the right an avoid the wrong.

[trooper]

Re: What is god achieving

@queer

if he knows everything as you say, doesnt he know the outcome of the test as well?

How can a man be said to have free will if God knows what choices the man will make?
http://www2.alislam.org/askislam/mp3/19850705_05.mp3

Why does God test us if He already knows what the outcome will be?
http://www2.alislam.org/askislam/mp3/19840528_10.mp3

[minah_pa]

Re: What is god achieving

queer... the tests are not for you to prove yourself to God, God already knows what will happen....

God tests you for you to understand his will more and for you to grow into your submission to his will, not so you can prove youurself to Him, He already knows.

The more you resist and complete a test, the more you know that you can, like discovering strength. Sometimes a test can point out an area that you need help and guidance in. Another way that God leads you to be stronger in your faith.

[Fayz]

Re: What is god achieving

AQ, I was hoping you would quote an ayat to help me understand. g and G don’t mean a squat in the big scheme of things :-D . Don’t dwell on linguistics…...btw did Adam have anything to do with it?

Lajawab, I am not asking what the test is or what the reward is. As human as I am, I am asking why would god put us in this test.

Sadya: I understand God is all knowing however humans are not…hence the question.

Xlnc786: We should obey our god for sure. There is no doubt in my mind that there exists a god and no doubt that this is a test…but the question is why would He put humans in such a test when he could have easily made humans like angels

Queer: We make our own destiny….god has given us a free will. God puts u on the crossroad and decides your fate depending on which path you take. He ‘knows’ in that sense.

Armughal: Solution is not way off for anyone..he is reading the replies that means he is also curious and inquisitive. (shame on you for the personal attack.. provided that you are a moderator)

Skhan: I agree it’s out of our league.. Personally, I would like to dwell on it since it makes my aqeeda stronger (whether I find the answer or not).

Mizzsilk: are angels robots? Trooper, I will check out the links

Minnah, I agree the test is for our own benefit but the question again is what’s the teacher achieving out of punishing the failed student.

[minah_pa]

Re: What is god achieving

Fayz... there is no failing a "test" that God gives, either you learn or you don't and are doomed to repeat it til God believes you have learned.

[AQ]

Re: What is god achieving

@Fayz

AQ, I was hoping you would quote an ayat to help me understand. g and G don’t mean a squat in the big scheme of things . Don’t dwell on linguistics……btw did Adam have anything to do with it?

hmmm.. few ayahs I can think of at the mo from Quran:

2:155 Be sure we shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere,

**2:156 **Who say, when afflicted with calamity: “To Allah We belong, and to Him is our return”:-

**2:157 **They are those on whom (Descend) blessings from Allah, and Mercy, and they are the ones that receive guidance.

and NO!! Adam:as: did not have anything to do with that. Reason is very simple. That is, Allah said to angels even before Adam was created that He:swt: was going to create a man to live on the earth as His khalifah…

[queer]

Re: What is god achieving

@Fayz

Queer: We make our own destiny….god has given us a free will. God puts u on the crossroad and decides your fate depending on which path you take. He ‘knows’ in that sense.

Are you saying God doesnt know what path you will take at the crossroad before you do so?

[Fayz]

Re: What is god achieving

Minah, isn't that a budhist theory that you remain in the cycle till you achieve nirvana? In Islam what you do on earth is what you get up there..no second chances.

AQ. jurm adam nay kya, saza bachoN ko...so the forbidden fruit story is not true?

Queer, I know you could be confused between how god is all knowing yet he doesn't know what humans are going to do. Allow me to explain..Now that you know about Islam, you have the free will to reject islam...God is not forcing Islam on you nor does He know that you will convert. He has given you your life time to go after the truth..if you knowingly reject it, then your black ass is in trouble and my question is what is almighty god achieving out of putting you in hell for your inability to understand the truth.