What is Bida'a? This is a serious question, ok!

Ok…so what is bida’a…?

I have been utterly confused by this. No matter how many ppl I ask this, each of them come back with a different answer. So I went to three different scholars in the last week, and searched the net too… Here is how it goes…

Q: What is bida’a?
A: Any innovation in Islam is prohibited and is called bida’a.

So far so good…but then

Q: Who determines if it is bida’a?
A: The scholars of Islam have to determine it.
Q: Right, so how do you define bida’a?
A: Anything which the Prophet (SAWW) did not do in his life, is bida’a.
Q: To practise bida’a is allowed?
A: Not at all. The Prophet (SAWW) said, anyone who innovates into Islam (good or bad) is not one of us.

Dah!

Q: Whatever Prophet (SAWW) didn’t do is bida’a?
A: Yes
Q: So he didn’t eat garlic (bcz he didn’t like it) so eating garlic is bida’a?
A: NO…NO…NO.. Bida’a is only in matters of deen (religion)

Ah! Thats makes it clear…

Q: Thats good. So Prophet (SAWW) never required that Quran be transcribed in a book form, so whatever Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) did was Bida’a?
A: No. That is not true.
Q: Hazrat Umar (RA) added something in adhaan of fajr, so is it bida’a?
A: No. It is not.
Q: In Hijaj Bin Yousaf’s time, the aarab (zair, zabr, paish) were added to Quran and it was made consistent. Was it bida’a?
A: No. These things are NOT bida’a…!

Hmmmmm…

Q: Ok, why are these not bida’a?
A: Anything which helps consolidate the ummah is not a bida’a.

Now we have something new…

Q: Ok. Now who determines which thing is a bida’a and which things are “helping consolidate the ummah”?
A: For an innovation to be accepted, there must be ijmaa (unanimous agreement) of all muslim scholars.
Q: Why is that?
A: Bcz there is a hadith of the Prophet, that the majority of my ummah will never agree on a wrong thing.
Q: Really, thats wonderful. So, in the present times who determines an ijmaa?
A: All the muslim scholars must agree for it to be agree

Now this is not as simple as you think…

Q: Including both the shia and sunni scholars?
A: (Moulvi saheb became a bit upset) Not shia scholars!!!
Q: Why?
A: Because shia have their own scholars and their own ijmaa. When I talk about ijmaa, I talk about scholars belonging to all schools of thought within Ahle-Sunnah.
Q: Great. So this includes Wahabi scholars too.
A: Yes.

There you go…

Q: So, practically, there can never be an ijmaa on anything anymore?
A: We don’t know. Its still possible.

Nevermind this line of questioning. I changed gears…

Q: So coming back to bida’a…we have to follow the ijmaa of sunni scholars to what is permissible and what is prohibited?
A: Yes
Q: As the deen was perfected in the life of the Prophet (SAWW), so why is there need to have ijmaa on new things…?
A: (That was easy for the maulvi saheb) New problems come up every day. So scholars have to look at Quran and Sunnah and the islamic jurisprudence and interpret it to find out what is prohibited and what is permissible. But since the deen is complete so no one can add anything complusory in the deen now.

It goes on and on…nevermind

So, this is what I understood:

Bida’a:
[list=1]
[li]Can only be in matters of deen (religion). So the fact that there were no computers and internet in 600 AD does not stop you from using it. It is not bida’a.[/li][li]Anything which consolidates the deen like consolidating Quran (Hazrat Abu Bakr), uniformed pronunciation of Quran etc, do not come under Bida’a.[/li][li]Anything which does not negates Quran and Sunnah, is not bida’a. Like praying taraweeh in jamaat. For instance Prophet never did it himself, but he never stopped muslims from doing it. Hazrat Umar (RA) made taraweeh in jamaat official during his khilafaat.[/li][/list=a]

There are several other factors too but they are all disputed between sunni scholars. Hopefully, the above three are the ones which are unanimously accepted by all the sunni scholars.

So, now I ask the question to you both shia and sunni muslims… WHAT IS BIDA’A ?

Pristine,disagreement over religious matters has been something which we are used to in this time and age.There are different schools of thought and depending on difference of interpretation of islamic principles between them I can assure you there will be disagreement over certain practices being acceptable or not.Some may use the term being bidaah or not.
However it does well at this point to remember that on certain practices it well and truly can be established.This is what we should aim for.
Though I have several comments to make about this post the first and foremost is that when approaching such an issue it would be appreciated if examples like Quran in book form and aarab etc. are not brought up since they would be irrelevant,but for the purpose of establishing rule no.2 mentioned by you.These things did exist in the prophet(pbuh)'s time and knowng the calibre of the alims in pakistan they may forget to allude to this.
At this point we are faced with the problem which you called who determines which thing is bidaah and which are 'helping to consolidate the ummah'?
Therefore it is regarding this question that I think it would help to remember here that what rule no.2 is being established upon coming from your post are things which did exist in the time of the prophet(pbuh).
Having said that I may add that I find several positive things in the attitude of this particular Alim.His broad mindedness towards the question on wahabis the most prominent.

[This message has been edited by Ahmed (edited November 24, 2000).]

Mister Ahmed.... you said many things, but you never answered the question.

Never mind the calibre of the aalim or his "broadmindedness". All the examples I gave were very relevant as these are the exact same things you will be asked when you go and call anything as bida'a, understand?

Pristine sir wait.This forum does not allow you to preview messages and I am in the process of editing what I wrote..and before I saw your reply.

Sure…sure…sure… Edit all you want…I just saw the “first” draft of your response, when I wrote.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

I am just hoping for some saner responses to the question I asked (keeping in view the examples I gave and hope the responses do not focus on side issues.

PS. And nevermind the references to “silly questions”, “kaj behsi” (beautiful words BTW), etc

I am done with it and I think you might have some editing to do of your own.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Anyway I only addressed one point here.I will adddress others later.

[This message has been edited by Ahmed (edited November 24, 2000).]

** Pristine **

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

I will tell you what Shafi^y said about Bid^ah. Busy at the moment but I will put the response soon.

[This message has been edited by Ahmad G (edited November 24, 2000).]

Bid'ah is ANYTHING new invented into the religion, ANYTHING new which was not practiced by MOhammad or his companions.

I am sure you hear on every jummah, the Imaams says: Every bidah is zalalah and every zalalah is going to hell... anyhow, I will post some later.


*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*


----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

Pristine read this:

BID'AH (INNOVATIONS)

Bid'ah - Its Meaning, Aspects, Dangers, And The Solution
An anonymous contribution based on By Shaykh Jamal Zarabozo's lecture

The religion of Islam, the religion of Muslims, is based on only one teaching. In other words there is only one 'true' Islam. There is no such thing as different versions of Islam or different types or classes of this Deen. The true path is only one way which lies under the shade of the Qur'ân, the Sunnah and the understanding of the Companions.

As was illustrated by our beloved Prophet (Saw) and was narrated by Ibn Mas'ud that one day the Prophet (saw) drew a straight line on the ground and He said, "This is the path of Allah." Then he drew some lines to the left and right to it and said, "These are the erred paths and on each of these paths, there is Shaytaan calling to it." Then he recited the following verse from the Qur'ân (which means):

"Verily, this is my straight path so follow it and do not follow the other paths that will take you away from the true path."

In fact, if we look in the Qur'ân, when Allah (swt) describes the truth, it is always described as singular. For example, the word 'al-noor' which is singular is used for the truth, as opposed to 'zulumath' which is plural. It is a prime example from the Qur'ân the clearly shows us that the right way is one way only. Any deviation from the true path is not an acceptable 'branch' of Islam but as the scholars call it, is a "Bid'ah" .

Unfortunately, due to several reasons, the concept of "Bid'ah" is not as clear to everyone as it should be. A reason for that is a lot of people are confused about 'good' "Bid'ah" or "Bid'ah"-e-hasana.

Secondly, there are many things which we do now that were not done at the time of Prophet (saw). With the outset of such widespread "Bid'ah", people are confused, and rightly so, as to what is actually SUNNAH and what in religion is not sunnah- i.e. "Bid'ah"

These misconceptions call for the need to establish the fundamental step which is to know "Bid'ah" , the concepts of "Bid'ah" according to Ahl-Sunnah Wal Jamaah and the aspects of "Bid'ah" . Bid'ah, its Meaning: (heresy, innovation)

"Any invented act or path in the religion that is made to compete or resemble the Sharee'ah and that is followed for the same purpose as Sharee'ah is supposed to be followed."

From this definition and from the statements of Prophet (saw) about "Bid'ah" or innovation, we can come up with some general ideas or concepts about "Bid'ah" that explains this definition. Aspects of Bid'ah:

Some of the aspects or concepts of "Bid'ah" are as follow:

  1. Every Bid'ah is Dalalah.

Linguistically "Bid'ah" is something which is new or something which was not done before, i.e., it has no precedent. From the point of view of Sharee'ah , every "Bid'ah" is Dalalah and there is no such thing as 'good' "Bid'ah" . Prophet (saw) said in an ahaadith, "Kullo dalalatin fin naar (every dalalah is in hellfire)."

Dalalah means to be astray or to be away form the truth. If we look in the Qur'ân, we will see how Allah (swt) used the word 'dalalah' or 'dal'. It is not used for the one who commits a sin or makes a mistake with respect to the deen but it is used for those people who have gone astray form the straight path or who have divided the religion. For instance in Surah Fatiha (first chapter), the word 'Daaleen' is not used for mere sinners but it is used for people who have gone astray form the true path, the Christians.

So when Prophet (saw) described "Bid'ah", he used the harsher form of deviation, i.e. dalalah, as he said, " Kullo bid'atin dalalah (every "Bid'ah" is dalalah)." He didn't just say that every "Bid'ah" is a sin or is wrong but in fact it is something much greater than that. It is a misguidance, something that takes us AWAY from the right path.

  1. Bid'ah is performed as a way of pleasing and getting closer to Allah (swt).

In other words, when someone follows a "Bid'ah" , he claims that by doing this he will be closer to Allah (swt). This is much different from committing a sin. As Ahmad Ibn Hanbal once said, "The greatest sinner (faasiq) from the Ahl-Sunnah Wal Jamaah is better than the most pious person from Ahl-"Bid'ah".

The sinner, at least, knows that whatever he is doing is wrong and doesn't claim that it's halaal and should be done to please Allah (swt) and so on. However, the one who commits "Bid'ah" not only goes against Qur'ân and Sunnah but also claims that what he does is pleasing to Allah (swt) and a way of getting closer to Him. And this is one of the greatest lies one can commit to say that some act is pleasing to Allah and has no proof from Allah (swt) about his claim.

So part of the concept of "Bid'ah" is that one who commits it claims that it is approved by the religion and Sharee'ah and it is beloved to Allah (swt). This is also one of the dividing points between what is "Bid'ah" and what is not.

  1. Bid'ah can be both in inventing new actions or in shunning an action.

Meaning, when someone originates a new practice saying that it is approved by Sharee'ah without a proof is "Bid'ah". In the same way, when someone avoids something claiming that by avoiding such and such practice he is pleasing Allah and has no proof for it form Qur'ân or Sunnah is also "Bid'ah".

For example, during Prophet (saw)'s time three people came to the Prophet offering their types of '"Bid'as". One claimed that he will pray the whole night, every night for the rest of his life. One claimed that he will fast every day in the future and the third one said that he will never marry. The Prophet was swift in his disapproval of these "good" "Bid'as" (at the outset, one would think how could anything be wrong with worshipping Allah all the time). The Prophet told these people that he was the best among all mankind and that he prayed some part of the night and slept another part, that he fasted some days while did not in others and that he was married. While the first two wanted to increase their worship beyond what Sharee'ah requires, the third person intended to avoid marriage or shun or elude something which is totally legal in Sharee'ah and approved by Allah (swt). Like the Christian monks and priests and the 'Muslim' Sufis claim that by not marrying they are pleasing Allah (swt) is "Bid'ah" and against Islam. Or if a vegetarian claims that by not harming a living soul he is pleasing Allah is also "Bid'ah" because Allah has allowed it and made it halaal for us to eat the meat of animals (of course, only the animals He has made halaal).

  1. Anything in Sharee'ah can have a BID'AH created or related to it.

Sharee'ah comprises Aqeedah, beliefs, acts of worship and business or public dealings (mu'amlaat). So, "Bid'ah" is not just in matters of Aqeedah or acts of worship but it could also be in business or public dealings. For example, if a person claims that 4 witnesses are required for business deal rather than the 2 that are instituted by Islam then he or she is exceeding the limits of Sharee'ah and falling into "Bid'ah".

  1. Bi'dah has no source and or evidence in Qur'ân, Sunnah of Prophet (Saw) and in the actions or Ijma (agreement) of Sahâbah's.

One famous example that is quoted by the Ahl-Bid'ah in their desire to make some forms of "Bid'ah" halaal, is the example of Umar (ra) and the tarawih prayers. They claim that since Umar (ra) started daily tarawih prayers in Ramadhaan while the Prophet (saw) only performed 3 nights, and Umar (ra) said that he started a good "Bid'ah" , we can accept the concept of "Bid'ah". However, this is a failure to distinguish the linguistic meaning of "Bid'ah" from its Sharee'ah meaning. For instance Allah refers in the Qur'ân to his Sunnah. Obviously when one refers to SUNNAH, it is a reference to the Prophet's Sunnah and its Sharee'ah aspects. Similarly when Umar (ra) referred to the regular tarawih prayers, he was only referring to the linguistic meaning. The proof for this claim is clear. Tarawih prayers were not some new practice in religion. The Prophet (saw) instituted the tarawih prayers. The only reason that he stopped after 3 nights was clarified in his own saying that he did not wish that the tarawih prayers be made obligatory upon the Muslims. However, at the Prophet's death, the message of Islam had been perfected and tarawih prayers would always be recommended and not mandatory. Thus, Umar (ra) only started the practice of regularly performing a Sunnah not STARTING a Sunnah.

To conclude this section of the article, it must be understood that "Bid'ah" is not only a new invention in the religion claimed to be pleasing to Allah (swt), but the one who creates and the one who follows "Bid'ah" actually assert that there is some shortcoming in the deen. In reality, they are stating that there is some way to get closer to Allah (swt) and to please Him that is not found in the Qur'ân or the Sunnah of Prophet (saw). That they have found a way to believe or act and to worship Allah that is pleasing to Him and which is BETTER than the way of Prophet (saw). That this perfect Deen of Islam is missing something in it and that is why they are adding something to it or this Deen had too much in it and that is why they are taking something's away. This, in essence, is "Bid'ah" - the concept of a not-so-wholesome Deen.

It is an (Naudhobillah) insult to Allah (swt) to say that He could not reveal or teach Prophet (saw) the best way and so they had to find the best way on their own. It is also a denial to what Allah (swt) Himself said in the Qur'ân:

"Today, I have completed and perfected your religion for you and chose Islam for you as your Deen" (5:3)

It is also a denial to what Prophet (saw) said:

"There is nothing that shall take you closer to Allah (swt) than what He has told you to do and nothing will take you away than what He has prohibited."

Hence, we must hate "Bid'ah". This is the bottom-line. This hatred is one of the aspects of our love for Allah and the Prophet (saw) and love for a Deen that we know is perfect and will always remain so.

Dangers of Bid'ah:

Shaykh Mohammed Sharoot wrote in his book on "Bid'ah" that if the dangers of "Bid'ah" were restricted simply to the person who follows it, then maybe we would not get as upset or as worried as we are now, but in fact, the dangers of "Bid'ah" and the harms and evils of "Bid'ah" spread from the person following it to the people he is around and finally to the entire Ummah. The Deen as a whole is effected because of their heresy and innovations.

Here are some dangers of "Bid'ah" :

  1. Bid'ah causes disunity in the Ummah.

It is first and foremost because of Ahl-"Bid'ah" that there is division and fractionalization among this Ummah. This is proven very clearly from history. All of the Sahâbahs were following the way of Prophet (saw). They all loved and cared for each other even when they had a difference of Ijtihad after Uthmaan (ra). They fought with Ali (ra) and Mu'awiyah (ra) against each other but they would still take Ahaadeeth from each other, pray together and marry their daughters to each other. Their fight was due to their difference of Ijtihad but their love was still for the sake of Allah and they were still united on the way of Prophet (saw). However, when the Khawarij brought out their ideas during the famous battle of camel between Mu'awiyah and Ali (ra on both), many Muslims split from the ranks of the Ahl-Sunnah and hence became the first of the Ahl-"Bid'ah" (the people of "Bid'ah"). It is interesting to note that not even ONE Sahâbah was present among the Khawarij which in itself speaks of many volumes.

Hence, when it comes to Ahl-"Bid'ah", the situation becomes totally different. The Ummah split because of Ahl-"Bid'ah" . When they bring their new ideas and acts of worship to the religion, the one group that is always supposed to be sticking to the truth (as Prophet had mentioned) i.e. the Ahl-Sunnah, reject these heretic ideas. They refuse to accept Ahl-"Bid'as" concepts and methodology.

The general statement made by various 'scholars' of today, "We all should over come our differences and be united and fight with Kuffar", is a nice statement as a theory. However, practically it is not acceptable because we can not be united with people who do not agree with all tenants of Qur'ân and Sunnah. It is our duty to oppose people when we see them following "Bid'ah" once the evidence has been established.

  1. Bid'ah is the cause of Fitnah (test or trials) or severe punishment for this Ummah.

By definition the people of "Bid'ah" are refusing to follow the commands and orders of Prophet (saw). Allah (swt) says in the Qur'ân:

"For those people who are differing from the commands of Prophet, there will come to them either a Fitnah (test or trial from Allah) or a severe punishment."

Once Imam Maalik was asked about putting on the Ahram from the Prophet's mosque rather than the miqaad. He said, "I fear for that person that some Fitnah will come to him." The man said, "Why? I am just adding a little to the boundaries of Ahram." Since by doing so, he was going against the commands of Prophet (saw), Imam Maalik recited the above verse from the Qur'ân.

  1. Bid'ah is the source of fasaad (evils) in the Ummah

If we look at the Sharee'ah (laws of the Qur'ân and Sunnah), it was meant for the well-being of mankind in this world and in hereafter. Anytime we go astray from the true teachings and accept any law other than the laws of Qur'ân and Sunnah then we miss that well-being (maslaha) and replace it with fasaad. By bringing new methodologies or concepts, the Ahl-"Bid'ah" actually change the way that will bring the most happiness in here and in hereafter to a way that will not bring the 'maslaha' (well-being).

  1. Bid'ah cause Sunnah to die and creates hatred for Sunnah.

Whenever people introduce any "Bid'ah" it usually replaces some Sunnah. Or people add to Sunnah to the point where Sunnah is not practiced correctly anymore.

Ibn Abbas said, "When "Bid'ah" is created then the Sunnah dies and this continues until that "Bid'ah" is living and the Sunnah is dead."

Hasan Ibn Attiya, one of the Ta'baeen said, "When the people accept the "Bid'ah" ,
Allah removes the Sunnah from among them and doesn't return it until the day of judgment."

So, not only does "Bid'ah" cause the Sunnah to die but at the same time it causes hatred for the Sunnah. Ahl-"Bid'ah" not only refuses to accept the actual Sunnah but also avoid going to the masjid or places where Sunnah is practiced. For instance, they show great disdain at Muslims that pray with their shoes on while this is an established Sunnah. It is common to see these Ahl-"Bid'ah" going at great lengths to describe the filth that shoes carry and it would not be 'right' to pray wearing them. Why do these same people forget that it is not 'right' to make a decision on the religion of Allah, the sole owner of this Deen? Allah knows what is beneath our shoes or what was beneath the Sahâbahs shoes or the Prophet's (saw) shoes but he still allowed it and as Muslims, we are to hear and obey (as the Qur'ân instructs us) and not to pass judgments. That is what happens when the "Bid'ah" spreads. Much hatred is created for the Sunnah that it gets hard for people to follow Sunnah. They get continuous pressure to change their ways. And even if there are some people who truly want to follow the Sunnah, Ahl-"Bid'ah" confuse them so much and mix the lies with truth so much so that they get totally puzzled by Ahl-"Bid'as" arguments and end up following the "Bid'ah". They get pulled into "Bid'ah" and they are not able to see the truth anymore, although they were sincere to Allah (swt). So, Inshaallah, Allah will judge them according to their intentions but we know well that actions that are not within the fold of Qur'ân and Sunnah are unacceptable irrespective of the intentions behind them.

  1. Bid'ah is a stepping stone to Kufr.

One of the early scholars, Al-Barbahaaree, one of the companions of Ahmed Ibn Hanbal, said, "Beware of "Bid'ah", because every "Bid'ah" started out as something small and resembling the truth and people were fooled by it and followed it until it became bigger and bigger and were trapped by it and it took them out of Islam."

Ibn Taymiyyah has a nice passage in one of his books showing that: "In fact, the kufr of Jews and Christians is because of "Bid'ah". They introduced new things into the religion and those things took them completely away from the true message of Musa (Moses) and Isaa (Jesus) Alaihumma Salam".

  1. For the Ummah as a whole, BID'AH hurts the spreading of Islam and Da'waah for the sake of Allah.

One of the easiest ways is that usually the ideas of Ahl-"Bid'ah" are used by the enemies of Islam to portray Islam. Most times TV shows will portray Islam as Sufis making 'zikr' which in fact has nothing to do with Islam. They are setting these things up to make people run away from Islam because belief of Ahl-"Bid'ah" is not from the 'fitra'. Only 'real' Islam contains the fitra and people will not be attracted to something which goes against the fitra. For instance, the group of Farrakhan, the nation of Islam being portrayed by Kuffars as an 'Islamic' group. Someone who is looking for the 'truth' will never be attracted to their ideas and beliefs which are being spread in the name of Islam.

  1. Individually, BID'AH destroys the Akhira of the person.

The best example is like the termite being allowed to live in wood. Imagine "Bid'ah" is the termite and the person is the wood. Sooner or later the person will be ruined because it is clearly shown by the several hadith of Prophet (saw). Bid'ah will be rejected in the hellfire. Allah (swt) puts a barrier between the person committing "Bid'ah" and repentance. This person and his supporters are cursed by Allah and the angels. He will be turned away from the fountain of Prophet (saw) on the day of judgment. His deeds will be rejected as long as he commits the "Bid'ah". He will be thinking in the world that he is doing something pleasing to Allah, whereas, in hereafter, he will find out that there is no benefit to what he did. He will not only bear the burden of his "Bid'ah" but also of anyone who followed him.

Solution to Avoid Bid'ah:

First of all, the people claiming to follow the Sunnah and being from Ahl-Sunnah Wal Jamah have to realize the dangers of bi'dah and how it is an obligation upon them to hate and oppose "Bid'ah". For instance, if a group tries to oppose a "Bid'ah", the first people to come and defend the Bid'ah are the ones who claim to be from Ahl-Sunnah. They say that they should not impose things and give people freedom of what they are doing and so on.

This is at best weird because when anything goes against Qur'ân and Sunnah then there is no such thing as giving others freedom of doing what they want. This is basically, due to the lack of understanding of Bid'ah.

Secondly, we have to establish "Amara bil ma'roof wa naheen anil munkar (ordering good and forbidding evil)." Bid'ah is a kind of high Munkar (evil) and Prophet (saw) has clearly told us in a ahaadeeth that we should stop Munkar with the best of our abilities.

Last but not least, we should educate ourselves about the 'real' Sunnah of Prophet (saw) and find out what is Bid'ah and what is not. We have to look at the tafseer (explanation) of the Qur'ân as well as the hadith of the Prophet (saw). When understanding the verses of the Qur'ân and the hadith of Prophet (saw) we have to take into consideration the context and the time of the revelation of the verse or the hadith of Prophet (saw).

For instance, many people misinterpret the hadith of the Prophet (saw) where he mentioned the reward of those who introduce a good practice in Islam, with introducing 'innovations' in Islam. However, if one reads the earlier portion of this Hadith in Muslim, it clarifies the misconception. Prophet (saw) said it when he saw some poor people sitting outside the mosque and no one helped them. He (Prophet saw) was unhappy and delivered a sermon reminding people to fear Allah (swt). After the speech someone brought a big load of charity and give it to those people. When others saw him doing so, they all started giving charity to those people until the expression of Prophet (saw)'s face changed form anger to happiness.

Basically, the man gave charity, which is an allowable and a good act from Sharee'ah . So, if someone does an act which people have been neglecting, and is an allowable act and in accordance of Sharee'ah and people follow him then he gets his reward and reward for being followed without either one's reward being reduced. Hence, although, this constitutes the literal meaning of Bid'ah hasana, it has no relation whatsoever to the Sharee'ah meaning of Bid'ah. The same applies for an evil act.

May Allah protect us form committing Bid'ah and guide us all to the His path and help us in strengthening our faith. All the good is from Allah (saw) and His Messenger (saw) and all the evil is form me and Shaytaan.

Take it easy.


*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*


----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

The Watcher:

This was a truly remarkable and interesting article. Thank you for sharing.

Till the time, I get any other response, giving any different interpretation, I will be spending some more time going through the points raised in this article.

Lets hope Allah guides us all to the right path.

My stance consistently has been that ok, I have some knowledge about Islam, and yes, Allah has given me (and indeed all of us) a dimagh (aqal) to evaluate views and understand the correct view/interpretation.

But the deeper I delve into the intricacies of Islamic jurisprudence, I realize that this understanding of issues can not be undertaken with a summary knowledge. I salute those who have command over all aspects of Quran and Sunnah and the Islamic jurisprudence developed over fifteen centuries. These are the ppl who have spent their entire lives understanding Islam and shariah.

All of us, hopefully, have the mission to lead our lives in the best possible way, the way taught to us by the Prophet (SAWW) in accordance with Quran and Sunnah. We want to be successful in the hereafter.

To that end, some ppl, can use their own mind to deduce what is right. While some others rely on the opinion of a recognized scholar for complex matters. I belong to the second category.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Scholars can be of varying schools of thought. Even in Ahle-Sunnah (the sunnis) there are subtle differences. Thus to me, the first thing is to find out which scholar provides the most correct opinion.

Bida’ah is one of the most complex issues facing the Islamic jurisprudence these days. The heavy influence of Barelvis, especially in Indo-Pak sub-continent, has resulted in ppl being extremely curious on what is permissible and what is prohibited.

I hope, all of us will be able to benefit from the opinions expressed here. I hope more opinions will come through.

May Allah lead us to the right path.

Hey Pristine, any time sir. Your welcomed.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif


V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**


----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

..Well, let me adjust that for you.

First of all, to celebrate the birth of the Prophet by doing rewardable deeds-- that can be done on any day of the year–is considered an innovated practice because this was not done at the time of the Prophet. Although this innovation was praised by the Muslim scholars of Islam, some people consider any innovation an innovation of misguidance. Those who consider any innovation an innovation of misguidance have been misled, because there are two sahih hadiths which support celebrating such an event. Imam Muslim related, through the route of Jarir Ibn ^Abdullah, the Prophet said: which means: <> You see.
There are two types of innovations mentioned in this hadith: the innovations of guidance and the innovations of misguidance.What complies with the Qur’an, the Sunnah, the Ijma^ (scholarly consensus), and the sayings and practices of the Companions is an innovation of guidance, and what contradicts the Qur’an, the Sunnah, the Ijma^, and the sayings and actions of the Companions is an innovation of misguidance. This definition of the two types of innovations was given by many knowledgeable and trustworthy scholars of Islam; among them Imam ash-Shafi^iyy, Imam an-Nawawiyy, al-Bayhaqiyy, and the Hafidh, Ibn Hajar al-^Asqalaniyy.It is apparent Muslims have not gone astray in celebrating the birth of the Prophet, based upon the aforementioned hadith, because the deeds practiced during this event are considered rewardable by the standards of the Religion, and in line with the definition of innovations of guidance.

Unfortunately, there are some people who misinterpret a sahih hadith related by Abu Dawud: which means: <> Those who are misguided interpret the word (kul) as every' and thus claim this hadith means: "Every innovation is an innovation of misguidance. Their claim is unfounded for two reasons. Linguistically, this hadith is similar to the hadith related by al-Bayhaqiyy: which clearly does not mean: "Every eye gazes the look of the adulterer;" rather, "Most people are guilty of the forbidden look." The person blind since birth would surely not have the forbidden look, and it is known the Prophets would never commit such an abject sin. The word (kul) as used in both hadiths refers to most,’ although it can mean “every” it does not mean this in all cases. As a matter of fact, in the explanation of Sahih Muslim, an-Nawawiyy said: "The saying of the Prophet, sallallahu ^alayhi wa sallam, is among the terms which are (^am makhsus) i.e., a general statement giving a specific meaning; which is a known field in Islam, and the meaning of the hadith is “most innovations are innovations of misguidance.”

This field the is seen in the Qur’an in Ayah 3 of Surat al-Ahqaf: which means the wind Allah sent as punishment to the people of ^Ad demolished most of the things..

So, O Millions of Muslims, keep doing what you are doing by celebrating the birth of Prophet Muhammad, by announcing the second Athan, by reading Al Qur’an with the dots on it beauce they were all not done on the time of Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu ^alayhi wassalam. But they comply with the religion.

I will put a biger article about that, insha’llah.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

Ahmad G, what is the good in celebrating and MAKING it part of religion, which Mohammad never practiced, his companions never practiced...?

The hadiths you posted, you left out the important points sir. Thats not how we do Islam. LIST EVERYTHING. Here are some hadiths which say doing good is ok, but inventing something and making it a part of religion is NOT ok!

The following Hadeeth is used to derive evidence that people can invent new practices in Islam, either good or bad: “Whosoever starts in Islam a good practice (sunnah), he gets the reward of it, and the reward of all those who act on it. And whosoever starts in Islam an evil practice (sunnah), he gets the evil of it and the evil of all those who act on it.” [Saheeh Muslim]

But if they were to take this Hadeeth in it's full context, then it would not be possible to deduce such a thing. Imaam Muslim (rahimahullah) reported this story from Jareer ibn Abdullah (radhi allahu anhu), he said: “Some people came to Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) wearing woolen garments. He saw they were in bad shape and in desperate need, so he (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) urged the people to give them charity. People were very slow to respond, and it could be seen on his face (that he was upset). Then a man from the Ansar brought a package of silver, then another came, then after him another and another, and his face was filled with joy. He (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) said: “Whoever starts a practice (Sunnah) in Islam, and others do likewise after him, there will be written for him a reward like that of those who followed him, without detracting it in the least from their reward. Whoever starts a bad practice (Sunnah) in Islam, and others do likewise after him, there will be written for him a burden of sin like that of those who followed him, without detracting it in the least from their burden.” [Saheeh Muslim]

Here, the meaning of the word 'sunnah' should be taken in the linguistic sense (i.e. practice) and not in the Shari'ah sense (i.e. the life example of Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam)) because otherwise it would imply that there is something bad in the Sunnah. Thus, the meaning will be the one who renews an evil act will get its evil.

Secondly, the Companion (radhi allahu anhu), who gave the charity did not start anything new, for giving charity was legislated from the early days of Islam, as proved by the Makkan soorahs. Rather he just renewed a Sunnah that was being neglected.

Besides, the Hadeeth uses words 'good and bad'. And Islam is the complete religion, all the good and bad has been defined. There is no room for any addition or deletion. Allah says: “This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as you religion.” [Soorah al-Maidah (5): 4]

And His Messenger (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) said: “There is nothing that will take you closer to Paradise but that I have enjoined it upon you, and there is nothing that will take you closer to Hell but that I have warned you from it.” [Musnad ash-Shafa'I and others]

And if one is to say that the people have the right to innovate in the religion, i.e. make additions in it, then he will be accusing the religion of incompleteness and deficiency.

You listed the hadith, but did not gave us the full context of it. WHich is pretty bad, one should not conceal anything about religion. GOOD and BAD has been defined, you are no one to decide what is good in religion and what is not. Allah and his messenger have already decided that. You just need to follow it.


*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*


----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

[quote]
Originally posted by The Watcher:
**
And His Messenger (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) said: “There is nothing that will take you closer to Paradise but that I have enjoined it upon you, and there is nothing that will take you closer to Hell but that I have warned you from it.” [Musnad ash-Shafa'I and others]
**
[/quote]

On the issue of Bidaa'h this is a key hadith.And needs to be looked in to very deeply.

So are we any closer in the search.... what is bida'ah...?

Are all innovations disallowed?
Or are there some innovations which are accepted because of ijmaa of all scholars?

Why isn't adding something in adhan (right or wrong) isn't called bida'ah?
Why isn't putting Quran in a consolidated volume, called a bida'a - whereas there is clear evidence that Prophet (SAWW) neither did it, nor asked his companions to do it. It was done, initially against the wishes of Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA). Didn't Hazrat Abu Bakr opposed it, initially, because he considered this act as bida'ah? But then due to ijmaa of muslims this was considered a good deed. This and some other examples show that certain actions were performed in Islamic history to preserve the deen and to bring conformity to the muslim beliefs. Even though these actions were never done by the Prophet (SAWW).

By inference, can we say that additions carried out by the companions through ijmaa is outside the ambit of bida'ah. But this door is now closed FOREVER. So no one can add anything (even seemignly good things) now. Is there any evidence to support this line of thinking?

I am not asking these questions, as if I am attacking any of you...

I am just asking these questions to be clear, whether we can define bida'ah in such narrow manner?

These questions were answered to some extent in the post by Watcher, and the counter-post by Ahmed G. But, believe me, reading the differing points-of-view, I am even more confused....

...And plz, this post is about bida'a - the whole of it... Don't restrict it to just milads or singing praises or visiting graves or anything.

We are trying to discuss the whole concept of bida'ah .... and not just some isolated examples.

Thank you...

Hey Pristine did you read this? Just asking sir.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif


V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**


----*Priest-OF- Painful Truth*----

I did…its very nice… When you say all innovations - good or bad - are disallowed, I’d say, fine, but what about those actions which were NEVER done by the Prophet (SAWW) but were done by the companions and we consider them alright. I gave some examples…

Now, did you read my question:

Can we say that additions carried out by the companions, through consesus, is not to be considered as bida’ah? But this door is now closed FOREVER. So no one can add anything (even seemignly good things) now. Is there any evidence to support this line of thinking?

Please think carefully, before answering. This is serious stuff, nothing trivial about it.

Thanks

*PS…And you don’t have to call me ‘Sir’…We are all friends and brothers here… Although I don’t mind it, Sir !

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Pristine (edited November 27, 2000).]

Pristine,
Regarding your question are we any nearer?I don’t know if we are but let me make some points here.To do that we need to establish a few things first.What exactly was there in prophe(pbuh)’s time and what was established in the time of the sahaba’s.Without this we cannot get to the point you are asking our view on in your latest post.**
Now remember bidaa’h is only in matters of religion.Everybody agrees about this.Nobody disagres with this.**Correct?
THEREFORE adding of aarab and dots in the quran are not bidda’h as they are linguistic matters.These are not religious matters.I do not wish to explain this for fear of longevity only because I think you are wise enough to get the point.
Finally about Hazrat Abu-bakr(r.a.) remember that he belonged to that class of Sahabas which were EXTREMELY carefull in matters of ummah religious or otherwise only because of the sheer scale of responsibility on their shoulders.If he really thought of it as bidda’h that would never have happened.He agreed didn’t he?To be carefull is different than thinking of it as inventing.The fact that sahabas agreed Hazrat Abu-bakr included settles that dispute if there was any to begin with.You may want to view this in light of the point I made above.This shows you how careful sahabas were even in trivial matters and they didn’t think anything trivial and didn’t want to take any big step(or small) without discussion.
We may then at this point ask if these people could have indulged in any innovation?
This should take you a tiny step closer.

[This message has been edited by Ahmed (edited November 27, 2000).]