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had some yt videos but might not be relevant
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delete comment
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These debates serve no purpose at all. They’re getting highly irrelevant and a pointless issue to waste so much energy on.
What does Islamic inclination of Pakistani constitution has anything to do with things like infrastructure, land reforms, education reform, universal health system. welfare system. education, industrialization, power development, technical advancement, accountability in government, justice and all public and private sectors? These are the things non corrupt, qualified, committed and honest Pakistanis can agree on regardless without even bringing religion into the mix.
Neither blaming Islam or getting rid of Islam will magically solve these problems. People need to focus on things that can and will brig definite change to Pakistan. Attacking/questioning the popular religion is not going to bring any relief to the people, you just gonna aggravate the situation further.
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That’s a very good speech. Now exactly how long did it America to grant all its citizens equal rights and fair treatment? How many lives were lost, how many people were burned, tortured, lynched, looted, murdered, discriminated before America decided that it must stop being the country for only white protestants. Sorry to say, if it wasn’t for the painful sacrifices and a long and hard struggle put up by the discriminated black community, you wouldn’t be here posting about the sakoon and safety you’re experiencing in USA. Now what have Pakistanis done for Pakistan? Isn’t it a famous quote from certain American President called JFK who said “do not ask what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.”?
Yes we know all non resident Pakistanis want a great nation but they must also realize that nation building takes time! Rome and America certainly weren’t built in a day! Pakistan is merely 65 year old leaderless country which was a colonized territory before that. It’s people of Pakistan who decide what kind of Pakistan they need and how they are going to achieve it - Americans are welcome to take on the streets and join the struggle. 
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No idea why the religion is blamed for all problems in any country including Pakistan. Just doesn’t make sense.
Secular, irreligious or religious, the country is made of people and when people do not act right, it’s not the fault of religion they follow.
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No one is attacking the popular religion…you haven’t read the thread obviously. This is about freedom of religion - any religion - including Islam. Being a Muslim or not is a personal choice - much like any other choice you make in life. It cannot have a place in gov’t.
Next - the issues you mentioned are being limited because of religious influences.
I’ve said the same thing - Pakistan needs time. Nothing new there.
For the people of Pakistan: they’re not just Muslim Pakistanis. There are other religions in Pakistan as well and Islam has no place in a country where its not respected and that’s how many people feel about it - American or not - I AM a Muslim and when I am affected I become concerned. If that ruffles your feathers - so be it sweetheart.
Its not the fault of the religion - and that is exactly my point so leave it out instead of defaming it.
Religion is not being blamed but its high time its given the place it deserves and not made into a circus for the world to watch.
If that means eliminating it and granting people complete and total religious freedom - there would be nothing better.
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What do you mean by eliminating it?
Religion has its place. Its not misplaced. This is the essence of what I said.
I have no idea why beat around the bush. In the name of freedom to practice religion some people are hell bent on making a majority Muslim country secular as they understand what secular means.
**Please think…, not every system is good for everyone.
Not one system can be considered ideal for the whole world.
**
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Islam can not be implemented if it is not religion of the state and it is duty of muslims of a muslim majority area that islam is used as state religion. huddod,jihad and many other improtant ahkam/ibadaat can not be implemented unless islam is religion of state.
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How so? Explain that if you can. Define total religious freedom? Explain how and where Pakistan’s constitution is asking for prosecution of minorities?
Sweetheart you really have to educate yourself about Pakistan before making such inflammatory and utterly pointless debates to distract people from focusing on the real issues. The text book arguments you are throwing here do not compliment the ground realities because they are entirely different. The armchair critics posting from the comforts of their home in all safe and sakoon pasand West can afford to indulge such ideological chit chat to appear impressionable but these are not the issues that average Pakistani on the street want their leaders to waste their time on. They want their leaders to talk about industrialization, urbanization, land reforms, security issues, inflation, unemployment, welfare reforms etc etc. And before you mindlessly blame and attack Islam for all this, do bother explaining how parties like MQM, PMLN, PPP, Baloch nationalists or even PTI use Islam to screw the country. lease just enlighten us how Islam is behind the coming of NRO in the country? If you know something that we don’t then do share with rest of us…
Whatever your arguments are - they are hardly making any serious sense For example you write “I am upset that religion is so SENSITIVE for the masses, so let’s eliminate it” Errr what? If you are writing in capital letters that religion is such a sensitive issue for masses then why are on earth are you talking about eliminating it? Is that even a right thing to do? Shouldn’t there be equally sensitive thoughts and approach to deal with such situation if they are indeed a problem. What’s up with overseas Pakistanis and their infatuation with seeing blood revolution in Pakistan? Do you really think Egypt or Bangladesh serves as an inspiration for Pakistan?
You need to realise and respect the fact that Pakistan is a **democracy **with 97% population calling themselves Muslims. Yes Pakistan is a majority Muslim state and people need to make peace with that, no? If you had genuine knowledge about Pakistan, you would’ve known that Pakistan’s problem is not interfaith animosity but sectarian divisions.
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Here we go again! 
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"You are free, you are free to go to your temples. You are free to go to your mosques or any other places of worship in this state of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed. That has nothing to do with the business of State. We are starting this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one State." - Muhammad Ali Jinnah
^This is what Pakistan was supposed to be, but thanks to the son of a Mullah…now the very same people who were even against the creation of our very country are running stumbling the show.
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The Constitution does not…but the country IS an Islamic country which it never should have been. Not for a minute. The fact that the popular religion is being used to attack minorities IS a cause for concern whether you like to believe it or not. It limits progress because you narrow minded Mullahs force the country back into the stone ages - again whether you believe it or not is entirely irrelevant.
**Holy Moses WHERE am I attacking Islam!!! Are you even reading the damn thread? I swear you sound maniacal - I’d be curious to see what people like you look like now. This is a common issue with you Jolie…like a bad habit. I said Islam is a religion of peace…NOT to be disrespected by extremists and people who commit sins and use Islam to defend their actions - anymore. How is that attacking the Islam? Answer that if you can…HOW is that attacking Islam??? Religion is being used to limit progress in the country - to hold it back. **
Granting the people the freedom to make their choices as they see fit is wasting time according to you? See now I am beginning to understand the way extremists think. The fact that they don’t believe the citizens even deserve to make personal choices. Wow.
Read below. By the way…I hope you’re not like this in real life…
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Dude! Get a grip. You are hardly making any sense. For God sake this is not some crap saas bahu life and relationship thread where you can make any silly nonsense comment and leave, so please try to make a logical argument. So here we go. If Constitution doesn’t discriminate against minorities, Pakistan isn’t a sharia state, religious parties have never been popularly elected in to form a majority government so how on earth Pakistan is an Islamic country? What the hell are you trying to say? What’s your beef - the fact that Pakistan is 97% Muslim so lets attack and blame Islam for all the wrong doing of people who happen to be Muslims? Stop with your Islamophobic rant and make a sensible argument. Last time I checked, the state of Pakistan has officially been fighting a war for nine years with those who want to forcefully implement Saudi style sharia in Pakistan. Thousands of innocent lives have been lost, billions of dollars have been used to keep the country from being taken over by the extremists then how on earth Pakistan’s constitution is responsible for all the bloodshed in the country?
And honestly, it’s pretty clear you have no real knowledge and background information so adding pathetic personal jibes is only adding to the desperation and stupidity. You really don’t want me to start returning the favour as well.
Please answer the questions, don’t obsesses yourself over me. How I look like is besides the point.
Yes I have read the damn thread and you have yet to form a relevant argument. You are just throwing fancy newly learned terms out of frustration and ignorance without even knowing what they actually mean. You are yet to define what religious freedom really mean in Pakistani context. Through out the whole thread you’ve been ranting about constitution but failed to pin point how exactly the constitution prosecutes against minorities. You are blasting Islam when Pakistan isn’t even a Sharia state. You are so shamelessly blaming Islam for the ills in the society (read your previous posts) and lack of progress while you have yet to explain how and in what way all the popular parties use Islam to do carry out corruption? How is Islam in any way responsible for lack of development and corruption in the country? Where do parties like PPP, PMLN, PMLN (Q), MQM stand in this regard? These parties define themselves as secular, so explain how Islam is responsible for the corruption and utterly bad governance they were responsible for? How did these parties since use Islam to commit sins and defend their actions? Explain NRO in this context.
Do you even know what blood revolution means? Please point the the secret blood revolution that only you seem to know about. I thought people were happy with the system of democracy and Last time I checked Pakistan was in the state of war, a war where Muslims are the biggest victims and have paid the biggest price in every literal way yet you still have the nerve to attack innocent Muslims population for the fact their religion is Islam or blame them for the plight of minority who are equally affected by this war as their Muslim brothers and sisters? How is one any better than the other? How this fascist talks of “lets eliminate religion because it’s the root cause of every ill” any different crazy Mullahs who propose overnight coming of man made religious laws everywhere as a solution to everything". Both arguments are the two different sides of the same coin and that means you yourself have an extremist agenda. And agenda that doesn’t focus on any particular issue (s).
If only some extremist nutters can realize that neither secularism nor theocracy can ever be imposed by the status qou!! It has to come organically with time and with economic stability. If you try to impose a totally different system overnight against the popular belief you get country like Egypt. If you ignore all the basic issues and human grievance and just get rid of the term ‘Islamic’ from the title of your country - you get country like Bangladesh. So the choice is yours, lets see which way you want Pakistan to go. Or either you can go down the Western route where those countries took centuries to define themselves.
You are raising a point about Islam and minorities but do mind answering if Islam responsible for the bombing of Sufi shrines, shia rallies, notable scholars, funerals, friday sermons and busy Eid bazaars? Is that also the fault of Pakistani constitution? You are right about talking the plight of the minorities - which are basically economical - but in your careless attempt, you are simply demonizing Islam and Muslims.
If only I could understand the way fascists and ignorant mind think’.
What personal choices? Define them? How does the state and constitution restricts their choices? There are Churches, Temples and Gurdawara in Pakistan - what minorities need is economic liberation and social mobility which will only be achieved through good governance, econmoic development and welfare reforms. All this rubbish extremist talks like lets eliminate religion, no no lets impose it to the core is just a way to confuse people and distract them from talking about the real issues.
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Having said that, Pakistan immediately needs to replace blasphemy Law with hate speech and anti racism laws and urgent reforms needs be made in diyat/qisaas ruling.
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Yes dear, I knew you were going to type up a nice little piece for all of us to read.
But
Since you haven’t read the thread or bothered to actually read my posts…I cannot be bothered to read yours.
You have yet to understand the essence of the argument…and if you cannot understand then it would be unfair to argue with an ill-equipped opponent.
So I am out until you learn:
Basic manners
Comprehension skills
Discussion skills
Come back when you’re ready.
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Kindly tell us what MAJ said in later speeches.
Can you tell me about this famous /often repeated statement? Do you know ulema who supported pakistan and their stature? and can you tell us why scholars opposed pakistan? and there is a community, who represented themselves some one seperate from muslims in northern india and paved way for indian occupation of kashmir by giving pathan kot?
We can start a new thread on who opposed pakistan. 
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Practice what you preach girlie! When you have no argument to put further, start preaching about manners on messaging boards. How typical and sad.
And do come back and start the discussion when you equip yourself with bit of knowledge and courage plus all the things you’ve mentioned. If only you had an argument to begin with…my manners are as good as your “arguments”.
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My argument went right over your head…and that means…its a useless debate.
Check your blood pressure.
You can believe anything you want but one thing is obvious…you have issues.
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Yes I have issues with ignorance! That should be obvious enough after reading your utterly ignorant and confused posts (not arguments -please). You can either derail your own thread or preach about online manners where your modship is genuinely required. In a useless attempt patronise me, you’ll certainly get your blood pressure running.
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You have internal issues…lol.
As for ignorance…your posts have been nothing but lengthy and angry little rants about something else entirely. Not the topic at hand even…that’s what is so amazing here. You saw red and just just bulldozed your way into this thread without bothering to even understand it.
Yeah - you have personal issues.
Sorry if that upsets you but this isn’t the first time I’ve seen you post like this.
Learn to read beyond what you WANT to think others are saying.