What would have army done in that case? What if Altaf Hussein or a big leader of Pakhtun party was killed by a civilian government? What would’ve happened? What do you guys think?
Disclaimer: Its not to say that Bugti was hero or any shyte like that, but its really out of curiousity.
Re: What if Bugti was killed by a civilian government?
It would have been same ranting and ravings BUT by different camps..
Re: What if Bugti was killed by a civilian government?
I don't know what musharraf is doing here.democracy in a place where thugs and criminals get vote is just not going to work.ever wonder why there is no democracy in arab countries?because thats whats gonna happen,people like bugti,altaf hussain etc will become great leaders and arab countries will become a hell hole.
Re: What if Bugti was killed by a civilian government?
Captainjee the answer is simple: the Army would have overthrown the civilian government, used the murder as a reason to exile or execute the leader of the government. Declare the Army has come to power because the people begged them too and to save their Baloch brothers who were suffering deprivation..proceed to declare war against corruption and imprison those corrupt who don't support them..announce how they will introduce real democracy. 5 years later the Army ruler will hold a referendum or rig a presidential election with 90% of the vote and on the 6th year launch a military operation against some region or the other that feels deprived (this operation would be in the national interest and the opponents would be "shocked and awed" by it..even 4 years later as it still goes on). Throw in some mega corruption scandals and eventually people will protest on the streets (being frustrated they will protest violently).
Finally the General will be overthrown by another general ( laatho ki bhooth etc)who will either promise the same all over again or if he is a bit smarter concede some ground to politicians.
Re: What if Bugti was killed by a civilian government?
Captain1,
History indicated that civilian goverments in Pakistan, though short lived, had never committed such crime and they will never do it either in future. Civilian goverment is formed by the people not the army. If they commit such crime, their days would be numbered.
FARID
Re: What if Bugti was killed by a civilian government?
^ are you forgetting crimes committed by 1971, ZAB, BB?
Re: What if Bugti was killed by a civilian government?
History indicated that civilian goverments in Pakistan, though short lived, had never committed such crime and they will never do it either in future. Civilian goverment is formed by the people not the army. If they commit such crime, their days would be numbered.
FARID
haha yeah right.
Re: What if Bugti was killed by a civilian government?
Looks like you forgot what Civilian Govt did in East Pakistan (1971) and in Karachi (1990). Bangalis were killed on the order of CIVILIAN govt and in Karachi MQM workers were killed (extra judicial killing).
As far as Bughti’s question is concerned, tu jo kuch abhee howa hai wo hee hota most probably a bit more bloody reaction hota.
PS: Now we are not discussing if MQM workers were killers or not, so dont get into that
Re: What if Bugti was killed by a civilian government?
Zakk's answer is the best
Re: What if Bugti was killed by a civilian government?
Bugti played his role during political governments and always had trouble with military governments.
Bugti: a timeline
Started his political career in 1946, when he voted for the creation of Pakistan before its eventual founding in 1947 following the end to British rule of India.
…
He resigned when the 1st martial law was imposed .Arrested and convicted by a military tribunal in 1960, and subsequently disqualified from holding public office.
…
Remain politically inactive when General Rahimuddin Khan was appointed as governor of Balochistan in 1978. (in another Marshal Law)
…
Killed in a major military operation on his hideout on the confluence of Dera Bugti-Kohlu border. He was 79 at the time of his death. (2006)
Now this is a political history with minimal interaction with uniformed governments (and its result).
(Captain1 plz provide a timeline for others you have metioned)
Re: What if Bugti was killed by a civilian government?
The reason why a civilian (*cough: feudal) government wouldn't have taken action against a person like Bugti, is because they are all one and the same. Its a you-cover-my-back-I-cover-yours world in Pakistan politics.
Re: What if Bugti was killed by a civilian government?
what are you trying to say ZAB did ordered what happened in bangladesh..must be jokin..it was drunkard in uniform and his cronies..
Re: What if Bugti was killed by a civilian government?
Political governments are formed by politicians who have opposed others (at some stage)and are ready to be opposed. These can include feudals, land developers, town planners or industrialists .......(anyone people prefer)
Whereas marshal law is imposed by army in favor of multinationals and generals. A general has always ordered after he was appointed and thus he requires politicians to follow his orders.
Anyone who has sufficient reoots in people (like Bugti) and thus can refuse the government on some issue, is (most likely) acceptable in a political government but must be put in prison or killed by a military government as the general wants all (politicians) to understand him and follow his orders.
:)
Extending your definition to a military governmet and its civilian members:
Let the uniform cover us all and leave the opposition on soldiers.
Re: What if Bugti was killed by a civilian government?
I mentioned them separately, didn't I? ZAB was hanged for some reason, what was that?
Re: What if Bugti was killed by a civilian government?
Captain1,
BB was perhaps 10 years old in 1971. General Yahya Khan was in power in 1971. ZAB was killed (not hanged) in fruad murder case by Zia-ul-Haq. Get your brain clear from prejudice to Polictiacl government.
FARID
Re: What if Bugti was killed by a civilian government?
^ Farid: Why do you keep mentioning age of Bibi in 71 or Zia's regime, I only mention her name because of her misrule in 1990s, get your head cleaned up before advising others. Besides, ZAB was not killed, he was hanged, whether the case was processed correctly or not is a different issue.
And yeah all the cases against Altaf Hussein are frauds too, go figure.
Re: What if Bugti was killed by a civilian government?
I agree, thats what would've happened, but unfortunately we don't have an institution which can keep such check and balance. We really need a completely independent judicial system which can also hold army accountable to its actions on the civilian population.
Re: What if Bugti was killed by a civilian government?
Captain1,
“What would have army done in that case? What if Altaf Hussein or a big leader of Pakhtun
party was killed by a civilian government? What would've happened? What do you guys think?”
So you consider Altaf Hussain is a big leader of Muhajirs, am I right? Comparing Altaf Hussain with Bugti is comparing apples with oranges. One was born Sardar, head of Bugti tribe, other one is a creation of military dictatorship, extortion, rape, killing, terrorizing people etc. Altaf Hussain is a cheap criminal, part of past and present dictator where as Bugti was fighting his cause with the government. Wheather his fight was right or wrong will decide by the future events.
FARID
Re: What if Bugti was killed by a civilian government?
Do you think MQM is a party of 5-10 followers? Whether you and I like it or not, he enjoys support of several hundred thousands of people, irrespective of how MQM came into being but now its there and staring everyone in their eyes, you can't deny that fact.
Re: What if Bugti was killed by a civilian government?
Captain1,
"Do you think MQM is a party of 5-10 followers? Whether you and I like it or not, he enjoys support of several hundred thousands of people, irrespective of how MQM came into being but now its there and staring everyone in their eyes, you can't deny that fact."
I know how many hundred thousands are followers of AH. In this forum I think only three or four including you are the followers of this criminal. Like I said earlier in some other thread, give a fair trial of election and see how many followers he has in Karachi? Only killers, rapists, kidnapers, looters are his followers, I don't think there are several hundred thousands of Muhajir fall in that category, or am I wrong?
FARID