What evidence ICC has got?

[smooth_guy]

Re: What evidence ICC has got?

Its time for three morons to come forward and accept their wrong doing and unveil who else is involved and which matches they have had fixed in past. Basically tell their whole betrayal story. This is betrayal to the game of cricket, its fans and the nation they represent. Do they have tiny bit of ghariat left?

[fkhan2]

Re: What evidence ICC has got?

@""Some1""

What are you on about ? I am sorry but I am a little disappointed in your level of understanding here.

ICC and Scotland Yard obviously do not have the same mandate.

SY has to prove that a “criminal” activity as per UK laws has taken place. This includes proving that illegal betting happened (not just that money was exchanged between a shady character and a reporter posing as a bookie).

For ICC on the other hand, the main concern is to make sure that all players are adhering to its code of conduct (ratified by by all member countries). For example, a player who was approached by a shady character but did not report it to the ICC officials may be guility of code of conduct violation (this has no significance for SY).

Bottom line is that SY and ICC are not upholding the same laws and do not have to meet the same burden of proof standards.

In this case, ICC has said that they have enough evidence to warrant an investigation against the players (they have not said that they have enough evidence to prove that the players are guilty). And while they are conducting that investigation, they have excercised their right to provisionally suspend the players in question. All this is as per ICC’s code of conduct.

What is so unusual about this ?

Even in the US - cops involved in shootings resulting in somebody’s death are routinely put under administrative leave by their department while the incident is being investigated.

Only if the PCB and that clown of a diplomat could get the above…it is they who have jumped the gun in defending the players, not the ICC.

Some1, I understand that ICC and SY are working on different issues. However it was ICC who gave this impression that they will only move further once the investigations from Police and ASCU will be over. This is what came in Cricinfo on August 31.

@Cricinfo

The ICC president Sharad Pawar said after the teleconference that it was difficult for the Pakistan board to take action given that investigations were still underway. “ICC is waiting for the British police to complete investigation. ACSU is also looking into the details. It is also preparing a report in two to three days. The report by British Police and ACSU will give us a proper picture.”

An official familiar with the meetings, however, told Cricinfo that “something stronger than a suggestion” was made to Pakistan to “not just not select them, but suspend them.” The push for the sterner option, Cricinfo was told, was fuelled by the need to ensure that the series - and cricket’s - commercial value is not harmed.

Now thoughout this episode, we have read and heard that ICC and ECB were pressurizing PCB not to select the three players for the remaining part of the tour. My point is, had PCB suspended the three, lets say on August 31st per ECB and ICC’s suggestion, would ICC still have charged them under their anti-corruption code before waiting for the reports from Bristish Police and ACSU?

As per what I quoted above, the answer is likely to be No. The statement in the quote “**The report by British Police and ACSU will give us a proper picture” **tells that ICC were waiting for these reports to come out before deciding if they want to charge the three players under anti corruption code.

Again let me reiterate what I said in the very first post of this thread in case you all didn’t read it. I have no problem in these players getting suspension. It is somethng standard which happens in civilized world just like you gave the U.S. example.

I am blaming PCB for being stupid not to suspend them earlier which could have avoided these corruption charges at least till Police and ASCU had finished their work.
I am also blaming ICC ofr jumping the gun under pressure and alleging these players before waiting for Police and ASCU to finish their work. Again this is contrary to what they stated earlier.

[fkhan2]

Re: What evidence ICC has got?

@ehsan

I think ECB pressure played its part but is not the sole reason. secondly if you view it just as a drama than you think it is all made up. Come on Fahad you know better than that. we are in the mess we are because we have always thought that our players are clean and everyone else is conspiring against them. Why is it that BD and Aus visited England this year and out of the four teams playing here this year only Pakistan was targeted. yes, if it was as strong as the 80's team, I would have thought that and did so when they were targeted with the ball tampering affair. this team is no threat to anyone than why would anyone want to drag them down. I dont agree that it is a drama and that it should be wrapped quickly. ICC needs to carry out a thorough investigation and get to the bottom of this once and for all.

Ehsan bhai, the reason I am calling it a drama is because nothing has been proven yet but Pakistan's image has been tarnished by the media as if all players have been proven guilty and have been handed life bans. Again this may very well change in future with ICC presenting a real credible evidence and when that will happen, I would not only want to see life bans handed to all of them but some sort of criminal sentence for them by the Government of Pakistan.

I am totally frustrated with the way things developed this week. Had ICC, PCB, ASCU collaborated professionally it could have gone much smoother without this whole drama or any mudslinging on Pakistan's image. PCB messed it up first by not suspending these three players as a standard operating procedure and then ICC by crumbling under pressure and charging them without waiting for the police or ASCU report which was contrary to what they stated on August 31st.

Anyway, what's done is done and as I said earlier, ICC must wrap it up quickly. Apparently ICC have an evidence and thats why they have charged these players. Though personally I am not sure if they really have the evidence or it was just a desperate move under ECB's pressure to stop these players from featuring in the T20 and ODI series. Regardless, once the players appeal and ICC set up the tribunal, they should make it a priority to bring the players in front of the tribunal, preferably within a month or even earlier and not drag this fiasco unneccasarily by waiting for a divine intervention to get an actual evidence.

Finally, I would like to say that probably I am part of the minority group on this fourm who would like to withhold their judgement until there is an actual verdict on this case. I am glad that I not among those who are thinking that it is actually some conspiracy of India, Isreal or the west. More so I am glad that I am not among those who have labelled these players cheats before anything has been proven against them. I am very disturbed to see posts here where people were dissapointed to see why Kamran AKmal's name was dropped from the investigation and that it was the perfect opportunity to get rid of him. I absolutely hate him as a keeper and think he is nasoor for our team but i was glad he got the clean chit. But seems like majority of the folks here wants punishment for them without any due process. What is wrong with us Pakistanis?? Are we living in a Jungle or what???? I think some of us are educated enough to understand fair justice for all including the criminals or are we all so sick of corruption and zero accountability that at a smaller level we can judge and give our verdict about anyone based on what is showed to us and at a bigger level, if needed, we can be so violent that we can kill people before they are even proven guilty, just like in Sailkot.

[Some1]

Re: What evidence ICC has got?

Its time for three morons to come forward and accept their wrong doing and unveil who else is involved and which matches they have had fixed in past. Basically tell their whole betrayal story. This is betrayal to the game of cricket, its fans and the nation they represent. Do they have tiny bit of ghariat left?

The trio should be allowed to 'plead guility' and reveal everything in exchange for a lesser sentence. But I don't see these guys taking that bait.

This situation reminds me of the Hansie Cronje episode - had Cronje not admitted to his guilt so readily, he may have escaped all punishment.

Even after the Delhi Police came out with those tapes and levelled match-fixing allegation on him, Cronje continued to have full backing of the South African board including Ali Bacher. It was only when Hansie voluntarily admitted to his guilt that the situation changed dramatically.

btw fkhan2, we are on the same page now.

[Some1]

Re: What evidence ICC has got?

...

[GoldenAsif]

Re: What evidence ICC has got?

@Some1

What are you on about ? I am sorry but I am a little disappointed in your level of understanding here.

ICC and Scotland Yard obviously do not have the same mandate.

SY has to prove that a "criminal" activity as per UK laws has taken place. This includes proving that illegal betting happened (not just that money was exchanged between a shady character and a reporter posing as a bookie).

For ICC on the other hand, the main concern is to make sure that all players are adhering to its code of conduct (ratified by by all member countries). For example, a player who was approached by a shady character but did not report it to the ICC officials may be guility of code of conduct violation (this has no significance for SY).

Bottom line is that SY and ICC are not upholding the same laws and do not have to meet the same burden of proof standards.

In this case, ICC has said that they have enough evidence to warrant an investigation against the players (they have not said that they have enough evidence to prove that the players are guilty). And while they are conducting that investigation, they have excercised their right to provisionally suspend the players in question. All this is as per ICC's code of conduct.

What is so unusual about this ?

Even in the US - cops involved in shootings resulting in somebody's death are routinely put under administrative leave by their department while the incident is being investigated.

*Only if the PCB and that clown of a diplomat could get the above.....it is they who have jumped the gun in defending the players, not the ICC. *

True

Accepting money to bowl no-balls or throw games to order is a crime regardless of whether or not actual betting took place. The ICC needs to drive home that message very loud and clear and if the players are indeed guilty of that offence then they should be thrown out of the game. No two opinions on that. Whether illegal betting took place is a moot point.

Thank god it is Scotland Yard and ICC (and not PCB) who are handling the whole thing. If it were in PCB's hands we know what w'd have happened. Players would have been banned for life only for the bans to be revoked a few weeks-months later. PCB's disciplinary record is a joke. I hope the PCB and 'crook' ambassador realise that this is not Pakistan where you can influence every decision thru sifarish and corruption.

Wajid Shamsul Hassan has made an ass of himself with his stupid and premature statements about playes' innocence, almost accusing the ICC of some big conspiracy against Pak players. If we want to clean the game harsh punishments will have to be handed out to guilty players so that such nonsense is never repeated in future and we do not have to bow our heads in shame ever again.

[GoldenAsif]

Re: What evidence ICC has got?

.

[Moonstar201]

Re: What evidence ICC has got?

can any one tell why all of a sudden this mazhar majeed started telling all the truth after being with paki players for a very long time .

[ehsan]

Re: What evidence ICC has got?

The lawyers who represented them during the interviews with the police have said that if they wish to challenge the bans by ICC, they are on their own.

[GoldenAsif]

Re: What evidence ICC has got?

@Moonstar201

can any one tell why all of a sudden this mazhar majeed started telling all the truth after being with paki players for a very long time .

Blame the players more for having such a seedy and sordid character as their agent. Don’t tell me they did not know this before about Mazhar? A man is known by the company he keeps. Too bad this crook got exposed by the NOTW reporter posing as a bookie

Butt pictured at the wheel of fixer's £130,000 Aston Martin

[kakaballi]

Re: What evidence ICC has got?

Lets see what tomorrow brings.... i guess more humiliations.

[Captain1]

Re: What evidence ICC has got?

@Some1

In this case, ICC has said that they have enough evidence to warrant an investigation against the players (they have not said that they have enough evidence to prove that the players are guilty). And while they are conducting that investigation, they have excercised their right to provisionally suspend the players in question. All this is as per ICC’s code of conduct.

oh bhai sahib, ICC is saying they have enough evidence to “charge” the players, not “warrant an investigation”.

http://www.cricinfo.com/england-v-pakistan-2010/content/story/475673.html

[GoldenAsif]

Re: What evidence ICC has got?

@Captain1

oh bhai sahib, ICC is saying they have enough evidence to “charge” the players, not “warrant an investigation”.

http://www.cricinfo.com/england-v-pakistan-2010/content/story/475673.html

charging someone with a crime does not mean the person is guilty. You are only ‘accusing’ him/her (based on whatever evidence you have) at this stage. The crime/offence then has to be proven in a court of law. Once it is proven you are guilty

i.e charging someone = accusing them

[sharaabee]

Re: What evidence ICC has got?

Lets see what tomorrow brings.... i guess more humiliations.

What's happening tomorrow?

[waleedhbk]

Re: What evidence ICC has got?

What's happening tomorrow?

NOTW is gona publish more news relating to this whole match fixing

[Captain1]

Re: What evidence ICC has got?

charging someone with a crime does not mean the person is guilty. You are only 'accusing' him/her (based on whatever evidence you have) at this stage. The crime/offence then has to be proven in a court of law. Once it is proven you are guilty

i.e charging someone = accusing them

I believe even for charging you have to have sufficient evidence.

[Decent_6Chora]

Re: What evidence ICC has got?

I remember Sarad Power's statement on day one that ICC will wait for Scotland Yard's investigation to conclude and will only then take any action. I believe ICC has charged the players ONLY to bar them from taking part in rest of the tour which our dumb @$$ chairman should have announced anyway but no, he was keep on insisting that players are available for selection.

Half of the Problems that Pakistani cricket is facing (on and off the field) are due to this BUTT Sahab!

Had ICC, PCB, ASCU collaborated professionally

lol ... u think PCB can do that when Butt sahab is the chairman?

[sharaabee]

Re: What evidence ICC has got?

NOTW is gona publish more news relating to this whole match fixing

hahahah.. NOTW is maximizing their publicity.. great marketing this..

EPISODE 2 coming up tomorrow I guess..

[Fayz]

Re: What evidence ICC has got?

@fkhan2

I am very disturbed to see posts here where people were dissapointed to see why Kamran AKmal’s name was dropped from the investigation and that it was the perfect opportunity to get rid of him. I absolutely hate him as a keeper and think he is nasoor for our team but i was glad he got the clean chit. But seems like majority of the folks here wants punishment for them without any due process. What is wrong with us Pakistanis??

Those who want Kamran out have valid reasons. The general public is not as much knowedgable about the judicial process but they do know their cricket.

[clad]

Re: What evidence ICC has got?

There is a RAT in ma Kitchen what AM A gona do There is a RAT in ma kitchen what am......