hmm so most of us have focus on religion as something that helps with the development of an individual, what about society? My husband yesterday said that Islam(the religion in our case) focuses on the development of a society. Ibaadat and abdiat are part of the whole bigger picture, a very important part but a 'part'.
But then, I thought that if as a person each one of us manage to tame ourselves it will have a ripple effect on society so maybe it is achieving the bigger goal after all. But then also, I have a thought that should there be so much focus on myself? Why is there so much 'me' in the thought process?
On a separate note regarding the debate going on, I respect that each one is entitled to their own opinion but lets not try to 'convince' anyone, as I have rarely seen that happen. Thanks :)
You have absolutely no proof of your life not ending. It's nothing but fiction and delusion IMO. You are sacrificing stuff in this life.. living this life like it's a hole or a smoke filled room (like you mentioned).. totally negative.. in hope of getting to this imaginary awesome place that a book talks about.. but there is no evidence of.
Peace.
Peace sharaabee
Oh there is evidence but you don't see it ... Let's take a cursory look at what I am missing out on.
Alcohol? - Oh, it's a poison ... but it's fun to drink right? It makes us happy right? But you know what it makes us best friends with people we dislike and it makes us dangerous and harmful to our loved ones ... If it is so good why do I need to moderate it? What sort of nonesense is that?
Water? - It is a blessing right? It doesn't poison like alcohol ... but is it possible to drink too much? Of course it is ...
Going to the toilet? - What a blessing that there is ease and comfort in going to the toilet - with that bad smell who would want to go to the toilet? right? - But just imagine if we didn't have to go to the toilet?
Am I free? - Look at these laws around us !!! We gotta follow them right?
All of the bounties and blessings in this world are from Him so we owe it to Him and merely by making this connection He'll give us more ... You want to enjoy the world but will end up destroying yourself ... in your enjoyment ...
The metaphor of a person who sees this world as one big party is the teenager who took ecstacy and died young or took acid and lost his mind ... When a bit of control could have led to a longer and better life ...
In the same vein - by controlling ourselves in this life we are destined for an eternal life and by taking all our enjoyments now then we will destine ourselves to an eternal state of torment.
Oh there is evidence but you don't see it ... Let's take a cursory look at what I am missing out on.
Alcohol? - Oh, it's a poison ... but it's fun to drink right? It makes us happy right? But you know what it makes us best friends with people we dislike and it makes us dangerous and harmful to our loved ones ... If it is so good why do I need to moderate it? What sort of nonesense is that?
Water? - It is a blessing right? It doesn't poison like alcohol ... but is it possible to drink too much? Of course it is ...
Going to the toilet? - What a blessing that there is ease and comfort in going to the toilet - with that bad smell who would want to go to the toilet? right? - But just imagine if we didn't have to go to the toilet?
Am I free? - Look at these laws around us !!! We gotta follow them right?
All of the bounties and blessings in this world are from Him so we owe it to Him and merely by making this connection He'll give us more ... You want to enjoy the world but will end up destroying yourself ... in your enjoyment ...
The metaphor of a person who sees this world as one big party is the teenager who took ecstacy and died young or took acid and lost his mind ... When a bit of control could have led to a longer and better life ...
In the same vein - by controlling ourselves in this life we are destined for an eternal life and by taking all our enjoyments now then we will destine ourselves to an eternal state of torment.
Mentioning scientific phenomenon like overdosing on anything causing health effects.. is NOT evidence that there is a superhuman controller of this universe.
Mentioning scientific phenomenon like overdosing on anything causing health effects.. is NOT evidence that there is a superhuman controller of this universe.
Peace sharaabee
I didn't make that connection ... I'm merely commenting on the idea that this world with all it's fun things is very much hinged on fatigue, risk and harm ...
There is an almost proportional risk versus reward relationship ... every pleasure in this world is linked with a pain - that is the relationship ... I am merely commenting on your assumption that my view about this life is pessimistic ... I'm showing you that it is rooted in realism ...
For every high is a low ... the higher the high the lower the low ... this is the pattern of this world designed to show us that if we choose high all the time in this life then we are subject to lows in the hereafter ...
This same life shows us that patience and virtue, sacrifice and good will is so sustainable that it is the best way for humans to be ... Where in this am I connecting it to the idea of Deity?
I am showing you that a life of plenty will result in problems within this life let alone in the hereafter ... it is the natural conclusion to draw ... it is the evidence that you do not see ... and even if you are shown it ... you will artfully dodge the issue at hand ... like you are doing now!
I didn't make that connection ... I'm merely commenting on the idea that this world with all it's fun things is very much hinged on fatigue, risk and harm ...
There is an almost proportional risk versus reward relationship ... every pleasure in this world is linked with a pain - that is the relationship ... I am merely commenting on your assumption that my view about this life is pessimistic ... I'm showing you that it is rooted in realism ...
For every high is a low ... the higher the high the lower the low ... this is the pattern of this world designed to show us that if we choose high all the time in this life then we are subject to lows in the hereafter ...
This same life shows us that patience and virtue, sacrifice and good will is so sustainable that it is the best way for humans to be ... Where in this am I connecting it to the idea of Deity?
I am showing you that a life of plenty will result in problems within this life let alone in the hereafter ... it is the natural conclusion to draw ... it is the evidence that you do not see ... and even if you are shown it ... you will artfully dodge the issue at hand ... like you are doing now!
mere bhai i am not "dodging" any issue..
good points that you should not OD on stuff that makes you happy for a second..overdose of anyting is not good for you.. including religion.. balance is key..
by saying tha you should enjoy this life.. i dont mean that you should OD on drugs or alcohol or sex.. there are so many more awesome things in life... the point is that enjoy life (with balance)... not to live life as a liability.. like living in a hole or a smoked filled room.. just cuz of a hope of "getting into" / qualifying for this imaginary place that some book talks about.. but there is no evidence of.
also a point of advise.. try to keep your posts short and concise.. by trying to be too detailed.. you risk being a bit too redundant..
This is just MY VIEW:
For me religion means conflicts, irrational beliefs, intolerance, ignorance, delusion, division, and a lot of other things that I cannot cover in just a single post.
If I or anyone else in a Muslim family told their parents that they don’t believe in Islam then our parents would be sad and they’d really think that we’d burn in hell because of Allah. This is why I’m forced to pretend to be a Muslim, and follow fake rituals.
Watch the guy in the video below to get the idea of what I mean. This doesn’t just apply to Islam, it applies to all religions. Now imagine the guy were a Christian or someone of some other religion acting this way thinking their parents would go to hell for not following their religion. This is why I really dislike it. It really causes problems among us.
Like Unos this has been my major gripe with religion as well. I can very well understand how people can feel very blessed just to believe in something or someone, how they think it forms an ideal sort of a code for living, etc., etc., but what kind of a god is this that decrees me to rot in hellfire for eternity just for not believing or following certain commands or rituals, but otherwise leading a perfectly "reasonable" life. How anybody can explain this is really beyond me.
This is just MY VIEW:
If I or anyone else in a Muslim family told their parents that they don't believe in Islam then our parents would be sad and they'd really think that we'd burn in hell because of Allah. This is why I'm forced to pretend to be a Muslim, and follow fake rituals.
This is just MY VIEW:
If I or anyone else in a civil engineering class tell my professors that we (students) don't believe in the ASTM code, then they would be sad and they'd really think that we'd fail badly in exams. This is why I am forced to pretent to be a civil engineering student, and follow the fake rules and principles of civil engineering that has been approved and practiced for hundreds of years, because I am a super genius extraordinary man with divine knowledge of proving the whole world and a billion practicing people wrong. Wow!
This Implies that: People should be allowed to read whichever book they like (physics, history, economy, pharmacy, acting...etc.) in order to pass in a civil engineering exam.