What does death of OBL means for Pakistan?

Re: What does death of OBL means for Pakistan?

I think it is better that Kayani, Gilani and Zardari keep quiet or keep on telling lies. We all know what the truth is :(

Re: What does death of OBL means for Pakistan?

SO far, the whole incident resulted in ISI and Army bashing...

Re: What does death of OBL means for Pakistan?

this happens when you become thekedar for the whole islamic world ,everybody is using pakistan,why dont these jehadi go to soudy arabia ? because no country is ready to see them , so it is the mentality of mullas to get importance they are inviting killers from all over the world, pakistan is going to suffer for along time .

Re: What does death of OBL means for Pakistan?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/04/world/asia/04binladen.html?ref=world

Tensions Rise as U.S. Officials Press Pakistan for Answers
By STEVEN LEE MYERS and JANE PERLEZ
Published: May 3, 2011

WASHINGTON — Tensions between the American and Pakistani governments intensified sharply on Tuesday as senior Obama administration officials demanded answers to how Osama bin Laden managed to hide in Pakistan, and the Pakistani government issued a defiant statement calling the raid that killed the Al Qaeda leader “an unauthorized unilateral action.”

John O. Brennan, the top White House counterterrorism adviser, said there were many questions about how the sprawling compound “was able to be there for so many years with Bin Laden resident there and it didn’t come to the attention of the local authorities.”

“We need to understand what sort of support network that Bin Laden might have had in place,” Mr. Brennan said during an interview with ABC on Tuesday.

The suspicions have intensified efforts by some members of Congress to scale back American aid to Pakistan, or cut it entirely, as lawmakers described Pakistan as a duplicitous ally undeserving of the billions of dollars it receives each year from Washington.

Still, Obama administration officials and some members of Congress seemed determined to avoid the kind of break in relations that would jeopardize the counterterrorism network the C.I.A. has carefully constructed over the last few years in Pakistan, and as the administration tries to end the war in Afghanistan, a conflict where Pakistan is a necessary, if difficult, partner.

On Monday, the Obama administration’s special envoy to Afghanistan and Pakistan landed in the Pakistani capital, Islamabad, and delivered what American officials described as a stern message to senior Pakistani military and intelligence leaders. The envoy, Marc Grossman, told them that patience in Congress was wearing thin, officials familiar with the discussions said.

Officials in Washington said they hoped to learn far more about the network that Bin Laden tapped for support by examining the trove of computer files and documents that members of the Navy Seals grabbed during Monday’s raid.

Top Pakistani officials have vehemently denied that Islamabad tried to harbor Bin Laden, and American officials said that at this point there was no hard evidence that any Pakistani officials visited the compound in Abbottabad, or had any direct contacts with Bin Laden.

Even as they pledged support for the United States’ deeply strained alliance with Pakistan, several top American officials said it was difficult to believe that Bin Laden could have spent years in a town populated by current and former Pakistani military officers — with a Pakistani military academy close by — without the complicity of some in the country’s government.

Senator Dianne Feinstein, the California Democrat who is chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, acknowledged that she had no evidence that Pakistan’s government knew where Bin Laden was hiding, but said the government had much to answer for.

“If they didn’t know, why didn’t they know? Why didn’t they pay more attention to it? Was it just benign indifference, or was it indifference with a motive,” she said.

A civilian official in the Pakistani government said he did not know if the Pakistani spy agency, the Directorate of Inter-Services Intelligence, helped Bin Laden hide or was simply unaware of his presence in Abbottabad. Either way, he said, the successful American raid was an international humiliation for the agency.

“I’m not denying the possibility,” the official said, referring to the ISI sheltering Bin Laden. “At worst, it’s that. At best, it’s total incompetence.”

He said he hoped the raid would lead Pakistanis — particularly military and ISI leaders — to recognize the deep credibility problem their county now faces internationally.

In his meetings in Islamabad, Mr. Grossman told Pakistani leaders they needed to take steps to stanch the tide of anger in Washington about Pakistan’s behavior, according to Obama administration officials familiar with the meetings.

In public, Mr. Grossman was more diplomatic, telling reporters in Islamabad on Tuesday that the United States was committed to its alliance with Pakistan and that Pakistan was “determined to curb terrorism.”

A senior Pakistani general on Tuesday repeated his government’s formal denials that the military or the ISI knew of Bin Laden’s location. Instead, he acknowledged a major intelligence lapse by the Pakistani police and security forces.

“To me, it’s a big embarrassment that the ******* was in this compound near the academy,” said the Pakistani officer, who spoke on condition of anonymity. “Clearly, the U.S. had better intelligence than we did about what was inside that compound.”

The general said Pakistan and the United States had cooperated in other counterterrorism operations in the Abbottabad area in recent weeks, notably a C.I.A. tip that led to Pakistan’s recent arrest of Umar Patek, one of the main Indonesian suspects in the 2002 Bali bombing.

The Pakistani government statement went further, saying that the ISI had “been sharing information with C.I.A. and other friendly intelligence agencies” about the Bin Laden compound since 2009.

Several American officials said they were puzzled about the statement, pointing out that the C.I.A. did not know about the compound until last August.

The raid has fueled anti-Pakistan sentiment in Congress, yet it is unclear — perhaps even unlikely — that there would be enough support to cut aid to Pakistan.

Speaker John A. Boehner, who just returned from a congressional visit to Pakistan and Afghanistan, said that any discussion about cutting aid or decreasing engagement with Pakistan in the aftermath of the Bin Laden strike was premature and that he would strongly oppose any such move.

“We both benefit from having a strong bilateral relationship, and I think we need to use this moment to strengthen the ties between our two countries,” Mr. Boehner told reporters. “This is not a time to back away from Pakistan.”

Senator Harry Reid, the Nevada Democrat and majority leader, also expressed reluctance about limiting aid to Pakistan, saying the country has been an anti-terror partner of the United States. “They’ve lost thousands and thousands of their soldiers fighting terrorists,” he said. “Now, this doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have more oversight, and I’m willing to do that.”

In Brussels on Tuesday, the national intelligence officer for South Asia, Neil H. Joeck, spoke about Pakistan at a closed meeting of ambassadors to NATO. According to people present for his presentation, which was based on a December 2010 National Intelligence Estimate on Pakistan, Mr. Joeck said American officials had little expectation that the Pakistani government would mount a serious campaign to wipe out Al Qaeda or Taliban safe havens in the most contested border areas of the country.

“He said there were simply too many ongoing suspicions of the U.S.,” said one foreign official.

Steven Lee Myers reported from Washington, and Jane Perlez from Islamabad, Pakistan. Reporting was contributed by Mark Mazzetti, Carl Hulse and Eric Schmitt from Washington; David E. Sanger from Brussels; and David Rohde from New York.

Re: What does death of OBL means for Pakistan?

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What does death of OBL means for Pakistan?
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decreased foriegn aid for sure.

Re: What does death of OBL means for Pakistan?

LOL

That is why Kiyani and Pasha are silent.. :)

Re: What does death of OBL means for Pakistan?

^ you should give it to Gillani he's still begging in France :)

Re: What does death of OBL means for Pakistan?

lol

You are giving Zardari too much credit here. The buzdil should have faced the media instead of just writing an article for WSJ (probably edited by his son/daughters). How convenient!! As far as I am concerned they are all buzdil and slaves incl. Kayani, Zardari and Shuja Pasha. None has the integrity or guts to face the Pak and world media.

The less said about Gilani the better. Should the idiot be travelling to France at such a sensitive time when the world is asking Pakistan all sorts of difficult and uncomfortable Qs?

But as they say, Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt..

Re: What does death of OBL means for Pakistan?

Ken Livingstone (Former London Mayor): Killing makes Barack Obama look like a mobster

Former mayor Ken Livingstone sparked controversy today by claiming that the killing of Osama bin Laden made President Obama look like a “mobster”.
The Labour candidate for City Hall said the US decision to “blow out” the al Qaeda chief was wrong and he should have been made to stand trial instead.
Mr Livingstone warned that the scenes of jubilation across the US would “heighten” the threat of another terror attack on London, similar to the one that killed 52 people on July 7, 2005.
“I just looked at it and realised that it would increase the likelihood of a terror attack on London,” he said. “That’s very much the American style but I don’t think I’ve ever felt pleased at the death of anybody. The real problem for London is that after America we’re a big target so it’s a very dangerous time at the moment.”
Mr Livingstone added: "We should have captured him and put him on trial. It’s a simple point - are we gangsters or a Western democracy based on the rule of law? This undermines any commitment to democracy and trial by jury and makes Obama look like some sort of mobster."
He claimed a trial would have “completely” debunked the mythology around al Qaeda but it would also have revealed US support for fundamentalist groups in Afghanistan in the Eighties. Mr Livingstone’s remarks about President Obama were condemned at Westminster.
Chelsea MP Greg Hands, who has US and British citizenship, said: “Calling President Obama a mobster is yet another example of Ken Livingstone’s extreme views which threaten to damage London. What American business will want to invest in our city if it is run by a man who repeatedly attacks their leader?” Labour leader Ed Miliband praised the US special forces for their achievement.

Re: What does death of OBL means for Pakistan?

Worth posting twice:

Re: What does death of OBL means for Pakistan?

^ Food for thought

Re: What does death of OBL means for Pakistan?

Days are changed.
Now the standard of braveness is facing media.
What a reverse swing .

Re: What does death of OBL means for Pakistan?

so this was the motive behind all this ???????????? sick!!!!!!! :(

to start a new war?????????????? Ya Allah rehem kere!

Former officials with Pakistan's military and intelligence service say the US wrongfully claims it has killed bin Laden in Pakistan to invade the country for harboring the terror leader.

United States President Barack Obama announced late Sunday that the al-Qaeda leader had been killed in a US military attack on a residence in the Pakistani city of Abbottabad north of the capital, Islamabad.

US reports claim that bin Laden had been living in a house near a Pakistani military base since 2005.

Speaking to the international Urdu daily Ausaf, the former officials said the terror mastermind had been killed elsewhere, questioning the reason for which the media had not broadcast the whereabouts and the manner of his death.

Citing the interviewees, who included General Mirza Aslam Beig, a former chief of Army staff, the newspaper said, “It is a fact that Osama bin Laden has been killed, but he has not been killed in Pakistan and this is evident in interviews with the locals and eyewitnesses.”

They cited remarks by Haidar Ali -- one Abbottabad local, who owns a house near the alleged bin Laden residence and had closely witnessed the US operation.

They quoted Ali as saying, “If Osama bin Laden was in the house, us and neighbors would surely be notified of his presence. The house belongs to a Pakistani of Pashtun decent and has been built in 2005 and was resided by a number of his family members.”

The interviewees also asked whether it was possible that the operation has not even claimed the life of one American trooper given the al-Qaeda militants' “special skills and commando training.”

They added that it was not possible that bin Laden had been living close to a military base as well as Pakistan's garrison city of Rawalpindi for five years without the country's military and intelligence apparatus being informed.

*“Bin Laden has been killed somewhere else, but since the US intends to extend the Afghan war into Pakistan and accuse Pakistan and obtain a permit for its military's entry into the country, it has devised the scenario (about his death).” *

Pakistan's former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto said in a 2007 interview following a failed assassination attempt on her, that bin Laden has been “murdered” years ago.

Re: What does death of OBL means for Pakistan?

Mihir Bose, a British indian journalist makes a fair point here

We must act to save Pakistan for democracy

In the 1930s, as the British were trying to hold on to India, a violent uprising erupted in Bengal.
Such was the panic that English women stopped travelling on Calcutta’s trams following reports that handkerchiefs contaminated with secretions of venereal diseases had been left on the seats. It led to George V asking the Bengal Governor: “What is wrong with Bengal?”
We now need to ask the same question about Pakistan.
It is inconceivable that Osama bin Laden lived in a specially fortified villa, possibly for many years, in the Pakistani equivalent of Sandhurst without the authorities knowing about it. If the Pakistani military, which is almost a state within a state, did not know, then they did not want to know.
The more depressing thought is that large parts of the Pakistani state, and its people, have never signed up for the war on terror.
True, Pakistan has also suffered from terrorism: President Zardari’s own wife Benazir was a victim. But the reaction to Bin Laden’s death shows that many Pakistanis deeply resent being dragged into this war since 9/11.
Then, General Pervez Musharraf, given a choice by the US of joining them or being bombed back to the Stone Age, chose the Americans. He thought the American billions would soothe ruffled feelings. But the money has not made his people love America: if anything it has bred distrust or even hatred.
One reason is that his rationale for backing America has been turned on its head. The general argued that if Pakistan did not join the US, India would benefit. In reality, the war on terror had made India closer to the US than never before. In contrast, Pakistan, an ally since the 1950s, finds itself an outcast, as the American operation against Bin Laden showed.
For Pakistanis, who until the 1980s outshone India both economically and socially, this turnaround is shattering. For decades, shackled by socialist thinking, India had a so-called “Hindu rate of growth”, around two per cent. And, influenced by India’s Harrow and Cambridge-educated prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru, the Indian political classes were deeply anti-American. Now, with a booming economy, Indians see themselves as America did in the 19th century. Many a Bollywood](This is London Magazine) movie is set in **New York](This is London Magazine). **
How ironic that back in 1947, when both countries got their freedom, India was expected to collapse. Pakistan was seen as a vibrant Muslim country that would keep Russian communism at bay. But Pakistan failed to develop a political class, or even a strong civic society. More important, unlike India, it did not keep its military in the barracks.
Nobody in the West should wish that Pakistan disintegrates. But to prevent that, the West must stop doing what it has since the 1950s - talk of democracy but choose expediency, always providing lavish funds to whichever Pakistani military strongman emerges.
Instead, we must help Pakistan build a strong civic and political class that is less obsessed with India. One that realises that while it is Muslim, it shares a common subcontinental heritage and culture that has little in common with the Arabs.
Like the war on terror, this reformation of Pakistan will not be easy or quick. But without it, we now face the unthinkable prospect of a collapsed state armed with nuclear weapons.