Re: What do Ahmedi's call mainstream muslims?
"The covenant between us and them (that is, believers) is prayer, so if anyone abandons it he has become an infidel." (Ahmad, Ibn Majah, Abu Dawood, Nisai, Tirmidhi).
"What lies between a man and infidelity is the abandonment of prayer." (Muslim)
"If anyone abandons the afternoon prayer, his deeds are of no avail." (Bukhari).
Mu'adh bin Jabal (RAA) reported Allah's Messenger (SAW) as saying: "If anyone abandons prayer intentionally he has no claim to Allah Most High." (Ahmad)
Please elaborate on what these ahadith means ? one who abandons a prayer, he becomes an infidel. I kindly request anyone to please explain these ahadith to me. I request bao bihari, ibn sadique and psyah to put some light on these ahadith. Thanks.
These has been answered in post 44
My friend Popat – Either you are naïve, which I can vouch for that you are not, or just hoodwinking viewers by playing with words to cover up the truth.
It’s not your fault, that’s what has drummed into you from day one.
**For example if a person doesn’t Pray or Fast or pay Zakat, he is committing kufr; but belief wise he knows that these acts are Fard and accepts them as such and does not deny any part of them is not a Kaffir.
Whereas if person prays, fasts and pays zakat and Believes that these action are NOT FARD and denies them to be so is a Kaffir.
If anyone denies fundamental beliefs stated in the Quran or twists its interpretation commits kufr and is deemed a Kaffir
Likewise all Muslims of any shade and colour DENY and REJECT the claims of Mirza Ghulam Ahamd that he is prophet/mahdi/isa ibn maryum/messiah/anointed one.**
Keeping the above in mind Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad – son and successor of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad stated the following:
1) “the belief that all those so-called Muslims who have not entered into his Bai‘at formally, wherever they may be, are kuffar and outside the pale of Islam, even though they may not have heard the name of the Promised Messiah as”.
2) “The article was elaborately entitled A Muslim is one who believes in all the messengers of God'. The title itself is sufficient to show that the article was not meant to prove merely thatthose who did not accept the Promised Messiah were deniers of the Promised Messiah'. Its object rather was to demonstrate that those who did not believe in the Promised Messiah were not Muslims”." A’inah-i Sadaqat (pp. 135-136)
3) "Regarding the main subject of my article, I wrote that as we believed the Promised Messiah to be one of the prophets of God, we could not possibly regard his deniers as Muslims."** A’inah-i Sadaqat (pp. 137-138)**
4) "not only are those deemed to be Kafirs who openly style the Promised Messiah as Kafir, and those who although they do not style him thus, decline still to accept his claim, but even those who, in their hearts, believe the Promised Messiah to be true, and do not even deny him with their tongues, but hesitate to enter into his Bai`at, have here been adjudged to be Kafirs." A’inah-i Sadaqat (pp. 139 -140)
"And lastly, it was argued from a verse of the Holy Quran that such people as had failed to recognise the Promised Messiah as a Rasul even if they called him a righteous person with their tongues, were yet veritable Kafirs.( “pakkay kafir” his words in Urdu )" A’inah-i Sadaqat (p. 140)
Re-read the highlighted words:
“wherever they may be, are kuffar and outside the pale of Islam”
“not Muslims”
“we could not possibly regard his deniers as Muslims”
“have here been adjudged to be Kafirs”
“were yet veritable Kafirs.(“pakkay kafir” his words in Urdu )”
In my earlier post I have given you the links to his books from website of your jamaat.
Popat with your hand on your heart, let us know if you agree with statements of Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad or do you deny them?
Brother** pysah **has explained this to you – Denying fundamentals of Islam makes one a kaffir – A muslim can commit horrible actions and for that Allah Almighty will judge him.
Here again you go twisting the words (yet again).
Following are the words used by Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad for those denying Mirza Ghulam Ahamd prophethood.
“wherever they may be, are kuffar and outside the pale of Islam”
“were not Muslims”
“we could not possibly regard his deniers as Muslims”
“have here been adjudged to be Kafirs”
“were yet veritable Kafirs.(“pakkay kafir” his words in Urdu )”
He deems rejecters of Mirza Ghulam Ahamd prophethood as Pukkay kaffir and outside pale of Islam and yet you want to keep them in!!!!
Which of you two is right? Your statements put him in the wrong!!!!
Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad must have been aware of this hadith and yet he called Muslims "Pukkay Kaffir" - According to you he is wrong.
- And If a Muslim calls another Muslim a Kaffir; How do Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad statements stand with you? Would you deem him a Muslim?
