Re: What comes first ......?
Sounds good, sounds right but sounds impractical too.
Re: What comes first …?
Why?
Re: What comes first ......?
Since i dont find any precedent ! Thats why I say ' not practical'. Just my opinion.
Re: What comes first ......?
Saaqi nei bina kee ravishe "zulm"-o-sitam aur
and
Islaam teira deen hei, too mustafavi hei
I have the book and it says, Lutf-O-sitam :-S... and it says, des, but I am not sure about des.. for the first one I am pretty sure....... I will check it
Re: What comes first …?
I was wrong then, sorry. 
Re: What comes first ......?
Precisely what I had in mind
Re: What comes first ......?
I think country should come first cuz wid strong country evry religion can be practiced openly and easily. Let me give u an example there are many christian and hindus serving in pakistani forces and they have contributed their lives for their country pakistan in times of war.Their country was the first priority to them not religion.
Re: What comes first ......?
At least for Muslims, religion comes first, country comes second.
Re: What comes first …?
*Every post i write there comes ur post declaring me a non muslim *
*wats ur deal man…Afridi786 
*
**
Re: What comes first ......?
Difficult question: for me both are important. But i do want raise myself above all these 'barriers' without compromising anything.
Re: What comes first ......?
Hello folks,
I think no country in the world is following its said religion. Yet in all countries there are believers and non believers.
Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to Allah, does good, and follows the way of Abraham the true in Faith? For Allah did take Abraham for a friend. (4:125)
We should be looking at local level to any who has taken the path of 'Monotheism' and has devoted himself/herself to Allah and to doing good works.
Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. (5:69)
cheers!
Re: What comes first …?
i didnt even read ur post i just replied to the topic.
Re: What comes first …?
People often take the above QUranic verse in the wrong context and try to justify based on it that, in the present day, one can follow any of the mentioned religions and be on the right path. The proper explanation of this verse (consult any explanation of Quran that you want) is that these religions were true in their respective times. However, as the next one arrived, the previous was out dated. Therefore, Islam is now “the” religion in the present time.
Re: What comes first ......?
Actually, your answer is probably based on a pan-Islamic Nationality which comes as a citizen of the Muslim World. This is in reponse to counter the united Christian west, and a gamut of non-Muslim nations in Africa and S.America.
If the whole world were Muslim, your answer would have been "country, country and country" because now the pan-Islamic citizenship is gone and you have your country to look after.
Thus, subconciously nationality always comes first.
Re: What comes first …?
Wrong context? Please explain bro.
However its funny to see you concluding and quoteing others out of context.
Salam
Re: What comes first ......?
[quote]
ramyssysIX:
Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. (5:69)
The proper explanation of this verse (consult any explanation of Quran that you want) is that these religions were true in their respective times. However, as the next one arrived, the previous was out dated. Therefore, Islam is now "the" religion in the present time
[/quote]
Hmm well, the way Allah revealed this verse in Quran, Allah does not uses past tense but present tense; where along with the believers (Muslims, who believe in Quran) Allah has included others. Even the structure of the verse supports that Allah is talking about Muslims and other not living in different periods but same period.
So what you mean (or those you are referring)? Is it that Allah does not know difference between tenses (i.e difference between present, past or future tense) or after this verse Allah sent another message ‘cross the last Quranic verse 5:69, circumstances changed and this is new message now verse X:Y’?
Or is it that those who gave the explanation that is contradictory to the message in Quran got new message from Allah? Or is it that these commentators believe that Allah do not know what to say and need their help to make people understand even clear verses of Quran?
** Brother, please explain. Thanks.
**** Note:** There are circumstantial link ayahs, and to understand them, knowledge of periods, circumstances and historical events are must. From what I can see, Ayah 5:69 of Surah Al-Maidah (surah revealed late 6H, early 7H) is nothing to do with particular period, circumstances and/or event as it is general Quranic statement that should be true for all times as Quran is true for all times.
Actually, the above verse (5.69) is clear that major criteria in front of Allah for rewards are to believe on Allah, believe on judgment day (accountability) and work righteousness.
That is different matter that a righteous person is always logical, unprejudiced, unbiased and just. Such person is always willing to find truth and accepts it, from wherever it comes. If Islam comes to them, they would believe. It is only non-righteous person that do not believe due to prejudice, ignorance, predetermined ideas or being bias
Re: What comes first ......?
What comes first? Surely, for individuals, Islam comes first and nationality second.
Regardless, that does not mean that Muslims having two different nationalities cannot have two different interests or commitments. Still, ideally Muslims should be helpful to other Muslims.
Ideally, there should not be two Islamic states but reality is different. We have many states that has Muslim majority and thus all such states are Islamic. In the past, there were authoritarian rulers (Kings) and thus all such piece of land with authoritarian Muslim rulers were considered as Islamic states but it is different now a days.
What comes first for the state is a different matter. A state, even if that state be a Islamic state, has to see the interest of all living in that state first, regardless of their religion, as all national of the state are the responsibility of the state. State (even if that state is Islamic) cannot be responsible of those (even if they are Muslims) that are not responsibility of that state. A state can do as much as they can without compromising their own national interests (unless, there is consensus demand from the people of the state).
Present day rulers are just caretakers of the state on behalf of the people whom they are representing (except in some middle-eastern states where there are Kings that have no regards of citizens). Thus, the loyalty of present ruler (head of state) should be with the state and the people in that state, regardless of their religion.
For instance, even a devout Muslim who is ruling a state as representative of the people should be more loyal to the people of that state (even non-Muslims) then his own convictions and if there is contradiction, that ruler should resign (unless his convictions is also consensus demands of the people regardless of the interests of the state).
We should realize that present day rulers get salary paid by the people (people’s taxes) and thus he/she works for the people living in that state. Power in hand of ruler is trust of the people ruler is representing (that is all the people living in the state, regardless of their religion). How a devout Muslim paid to do a job as representative could do anything otherwise due to own religious convictions? We should remember that those who have Iman cannot do anything against the interest of those they are representing (whoever they maybe).
What would you consider a person that is paid by you to look after your benefits and interests but work for the benefits and interest of others at your expense without your consent (because of his own religious convictions)? Namak Haram, right? <- that also applies on a person in power (head of state) that represents people of that state and still sacrifices the interest or benefits of the people that person is representing for nationals of other states (without consensus consent of the people) because of personal religious convictions.
Re: What comes first ......?
For me its my family, my country Pakistan and then my religion.
Re: What comes first …?
For those of you who needed an explanation to the verse 5:69, here you go, in the words of Imam Ibn-e-Kathir, may Allaah have mercy on him. He said in his tafseer of the aayah from Soorat al-Baqarah:
(source: thetruereligion.org)
“Allaah, may He be exalted, points out that whoever of the previous nations did well and was obedient, will have a good reward, and this will be the case for everyone who follows the Unlettered Prophet [Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) until the Hour comes – he will have eternal happiness, and they will not fear what they are going to face, nor will they grieve for what they have left behind. As Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): ‘No doubt! Verily, the awliya’ of Allaah [i.e., those who believe in the Oneness of Allaah and fear Allaah much, and love Allaah much], no fear shall come upon them nor shall they grieve.’ [Yoonus 10:62]. And Allaah tells us what the angels say to the believers at the time of death (interpretation of the meaning): ‘Verily, those who say, “Our Lord is Allaah,” then they istaqaamu [stood straight, i.e., truly followed Islam], on them the angels will descend (at the time of their death) (saying): “Fear not, nor grieve! But receive the glad tidings of Paradise which you have been promised!”’ [Fussilat 41:30]
As far as the Jews are concerning, their faith meant believing in the Tawraat (original Torah) and following the way of Moosa (peace be upon him) until ‘Eesa came, after which whoever continued to follow the Torah and the way of Moosa, and did not leave this and follow ‘Eesa, was doomed. As far as the Christians are concerned, their faith meant believing in the Injeel (original Gospel) and following the laws of ‘Eesa; whoever did this was a believer whose faith was acceptable to Allaah, until Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came, after which whoever did not follow Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and leave the way of ‘Eesa and the Injeel that he had been following before, was doomed.
The aayah (interpretation of the meaning), “And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85] is a statement that Allaah will not accept any way or deed from anyone, after sending His Final Messenger, except those that are in accordance with the laws of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Prior to this, however, anyone who followed the Prophet of his own time was on the Straight Path of salvation. So the Jews were those who followed Moosa (peace be upon him) and referred to the Tawraat for judgement at that time. When Allaah sent ‘Eesa (peace be upon him), the Children of Israel were obliged to follow him and obey him, and so they and others who followed him became Christians.. When Allaah sent Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), as the Final Prophet and a Messenger to all the children of Adam, all of mankind was obliged to believe in him and obey him, and refrain from what he prohibited. Those who did so are the true believers. The ummah (nation) of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) are called the believers because of their deep eemaan (faith) and conviction, and because they believe in all the past Prophets and in the prophesied events that are yet to come.”