Girl: Is 20 years old. Born in Germany, migrated to United States after father’s death. Only has a mother, no siblings. The mother wants to get her rishta fixed to the girl’s phupho’s son who lives in Pakistan. The mother has a very limited social circle and cannot ever think of having the girl married to someone outside of the family. Only this guy is available inside the family.
Guy
Pros: From a VERY VERY good family, is a nice person over all. Is really good looking (if that counts?)
Cons: Has only done up to high school in Pakistan (couldn’t finish studies due to some valid family reasons), is already 24 years old and doesn’t work. Has lived in a small town in Pakistan all his life, will be hard to adjust in the States.
The problem is, the girl isn’t attracted to the guy at all. She’s an engineering student here and would like someone to be at least educated (if not a ‘prince charming’) and someone she is attracted to. The mother isn’t ready to hear a ‘no’ and has been emotionally blackmailing her to say yes for all the stuff she has done for her all alone all these years ever since the father passed away.
And even if she does end up saying yes, what kind of future can this guy give her? Is it common for guys to come here at around 26-27 and START their education? With the description of the guy, is it even worth taking a stand against it and having the entire family against her?
Edit: The girl’s father cheated on her mother a few years before his death. After he ‘realized’ and came back to his senses he promised his sister for this rishta just to make sure his daughter would go in safe hands. Now the mother isn’t ready to let go of that promise.
Girl: Is 20 years old. Born in Germany, migrated to United States after father's death. Only has a mother, no siblings. The mother wants to get her rishta fixed to the girl's phupho's son who lives in Pakistan. The mother has a very limited social circle and cannot ever think of having the girl married to someone outside of the family. Only this guy is available inside the family.
Guy
Pros: From a VERY VERY good family, is a nice person over all. Is really good looking (if that counts?)
Cons: Has only done up to high school in Pakistan (couldn't finish studies due to some valid family reasons), is already 24 years old and doesn't work. Has lived in a s?
1) Talk to your mom. Start it off by telling her that you love her very much and that you appreciate all the hard work and sacrifices she made in raising you, especially as a single parent....and that you can never repay her.....that you believe that she has raised you to be able to discuss anything with her without hesitation and that you believe there should be strong communication b/w mother and daughter. Then tell her that you'd like to discuss this rishta because it's a life-altering decision and that you have some questions.
^Once you start in a positive way (instead of a defensive one) she may be more open to listening to you.
2) Bring up your concerns (the lack of eduction, no job, difficulty adjusting etc.) And listen to what she says. Even if she defends your cousin and the rishta at first.....at least you've planted the valid concerns in her mind.
3) Have you met your cousin? If not, then perhaps your opinion of him might change after interacting with him in person. If you have met him and are still not attracted to him....or...if you just don't want to marry a cousin cuz of the ick factor.......you need to be frank with your mom and let her know that you're just not attracted to him. Explain to her the consequences of marrying someone you're not interested in. Tell her that it won't be fair to your cousin...as he deserves someone who actually wants to marry him.....tell her that you won't be able to fulfill marital rights/responsibilities when you're feeling resentment. Your mom may (and probably will) get mad........but once again......you've planted these possibilities in her mind....she'll have to think about these consequences. Sometimes I think it helps to be very frank and let the other person (in this case your mother) know that you're aware of the games. IN other words....let her know that you recognize the blackmailing. If she goes on and on about how much she's done for you.......tell her again that you appreciate it and love her .....but ask her "Did you raise me because you love me unconditionally? Or did you raise me only so that I can meet a condition?" Giver her some food for thought. If speaking doesn't work.....consider writing a letter to her.
4) If you're absolutely sure you don't like him and want to marry him (after having met him)...and if your mom can't be reasoned with.....then I say talk to your cousin. Tell him directly that you don't want to marry him. If he has any respect for you and for himself........he won't go through with it. You say that he's unemployed and considering how things are in Pakistan.....there's a chance he may not give up if he's keen on settling abroad. Try talking to your phuppo.....or a an elder relative with some influence who can reason with your mom. You can't worry about hurting your phuppo's feelings...as going through a marriage that you're not into...will do more damage to both families in the long run. This is one of those issues where you have go through one step after another, try one strategy after another (from mild to more aggressive), and be persistent, and stand your ground. Prayer...and performing istikhara (don't look for signs in dreams please)...and making dua can bring some peace.
Surely this guy can't be the end all be all rishta for her mother? So what if he's the only person in the family, if the girl is decent and educated I'm sure she could find a more fitting rishta from outside the family just as easily.
The girl has apprehensions about being with a person she doesn't feel is up to her level, I think she is entitled to that. But just to appease her mother maybe she should try and get to know this guy, sometimes education isn't everything and she might end up liking other aspects of him. He is from a good family after all, surely he must have some skills he could utilise in the US. However if despite all this the girl still feels the guy isn't right she should just let her mother know and bow out of the rishta arrangement, promises made in the past do not entitle her mother to emotionally blackmail her.
Surely this guy can't be the end all be all rishta for her mother? So what if he's the only person in the family, if the girl is decent and educated *I'm sure she could find a more fitting rishta from outside the family just as easily. *
The girl has apprehensions about being with a person she doesn't feel is up to her level, I think she is entitled to that. But just to appease her mother maybe she should try and get to know this guy, sometimes education isn't everything and she might end up liking other aspects of him. He is from a good family after all, surely he must have some skills he could utilise in the US. However if despite all this the girl still feels the guy isn't right she should just let her mother know and bow out of the rishta arrangement, promises made in the past do not entitle her mother to emotionally blackmail her.
There could be several good rishtay outside of the family out there for her. But this is not the first time this has happened. One of my relatives (widowed at a young age) married her eldest daughter to a cousin. The OP's mother probably thinks that getting her daughter married within the family would ensure a more peaceful marriage......based on the premise that relatives will treat her better......that she won't have to go through mistreatment by in-laws drama.....therefore less of a headache for OP's mother. So, is the assumption. Although it's not necessarily true. Sometimes in-laws that are related to one....can be much worse than those not related to you. Familiarity can be comforting.....and there's also the saying that familiarity can breed contempt.
Bowing out is easier said than done. The whole issue won't simply end with her refusal to marry him. The drama (crying, insults, pressure, blackmail from mom and possibly others, guilt trip) will ensue.....and you have to be really strong to deal with that. Yeah, blackmailing is wrong.....but does this stop some desi parents from engaging in it? Nope.
If she has never personally interacted with him........then getting to meet him will give him a better idea of his personality....and it could change her mind...she may even like him. It is TOUGH for college degree holders to find a job in the US...it will be even tough for someone who only has a high school degree from Pakistan...and then the issue of credits matching up, etc. Having a Bachelors or even a higher degree does not necessarily mean that the guy will make a good husband or has good work ethic/ambition/drive. There are the rare exceptions to the generalizations.....someone with lesser education could be more ambitious and dedicated. Completing education/adjusting to the culture/difficulty with language/dealing with the emotional highs/lows of assimilating to a new environment....all valid concerns. If she's absolutely certain she doesn't want to marry him (especially after meeting him)....she will have to be strong in standing her ground.
You’re right, there is no easy way to do that. And it’s not just some desi parents, pretty much ALL desi parents love emotional blackmail, even my mum sometimes does it to me
1) Talk to your mom. Start it off by telling her that you love her very much and that you appreciate all the hard work and sacrifices she made in raising you, especially as a single parent....and that you can never repay her.....that you believe that she has raised you to be able to discuss anything with her without hesitation and that you believe there should be strong communication b/w mother and daughter. Then tell her that you'd like to discuss this rishta because it's a life-altering decision and that you have some questions.
^Once you start in a positive way (instead of a defensive one) she may be more open to listening to you.
Done this already, the mother starts yelling or crying saying she has no other option.
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2) Bring up your concerns (the lack of eduction, no job, difficulty adjusting etc.) And listen to what she says. Even if she defends your cousin and the rishta at first.....at least you've planted the valid concerns in her mind.
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She says its not an issue. He will 'finish his education and get a job here somehow like everyone else does'.
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3) Have you met your cousin? If not, then perhaps your opinion of him might change after interacting with him in person. If you have met him and are still not attracted to him....or...if you just don't want to marry a cousin cuz of the ick factor.......you need to be frank with your mom and let her know that you're just not attracted to him. Explain to her the consequences of marrying someone you're not interested in. Tell her that it won't be fair to your cousin...as he deserves someone who actually wants to marry him.....tell her that you won't be able to fulfill marital rights/responsibilities when you're feeling resentment. Your mom may (and probably will) get mad........but once again......you've planted these possibilities in her mind....she'll have to think about these consequences. Sometimes I think it helps to be very frank and let the other person (in this case your mother) know that you're aware of the games. IN other words....let her know that you recognize the blackmailing. If she goes on and on about how much she's done for you.......tell her again that you appreciate it and love her .....but ask her "Did you raise me because you love me unconditionally? Or did you raise me only so that I can meet a condition?" Giver her some food for thought. If speaking doesn't work.....consider writing a letter to her.
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Yup
The guy looks good and has good morals, but thats all there is to him. Education has no value in the mother's eyes so she's not ready to listen to this excuse. The mother thinks since the girl is studying she can take care of everything herself.
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4) If you're absolutely sure you don't like him and want to marry him (after having met him)...and if your mom can't be reasoned with.....then I say talk to your cousin. Tell him directly that you don't want to marry him. If he has any respect for you and for himself........he won't go through with it. You say that he's unemployed and considering how things are in Pakistan.....there's a chance he may not give up if he's keen on settling abroad. Try talking to your phuppo.....or a an elder relative with some influence who can reason with your mom. You can't worry about hurting your phuppo's feelings...as going through a marriage that you're not into...will do more damage to both families in the long run. This is one of those issues where you have go through one step after another, try one strategy after another (from mild to more aggressive), and be persistent, and stand your ground. Prayer...and performing istikhara (don't look for signs in dreams please)...and making dua can bring some peace.
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Done everything...no solution.
Done this already, the mother starts yelling or crying saying she has no other option.
She says its not an issue. He will 'finish his education and get a job here somehow like everyone else does'.
Yup
The guy looks good and has good morals, but thats all there is to him. Education has no value in the mother's eyes so she's not ready to listen to this excuse. The mother thinks since the girl is studying she can take care of everything herself.
Done everything...no solution.
1) Explain to her that it's not as easy as him "getting a job" somehow. Minimum wage job? Takes years to graduate, etc. Bring this up with her.
2) Good morals (and especially in conjunction with good looks) is a rare combination, I think. LOL. Don't downplay the good morals...it's a very strong quality and a very important one. You can be highly educated and have a chitty character. I'm not saying that you should marry him...nor am I saying that you shouldn't. It's your decision. Just consider all angles/consequences.
3) What do you mean that the mother thinks since the girl is studying she can take care over everything? Whose mother? And who is the "she" that supposed to take care of things? You? Or your mom?
4) So have you told your cousin that you have no desire to marry him? If so...how did he respond? If he has "good morals" as you say....then he shouldn't impose this marriage on you. He should back out of it himself....and that way it comes to an end. Unless he's being pressured by his mom and can't say no....or unless he's more interested in settling in the US instead of your happiness. (that could contradict the good/strong morals) Have you talked to other relatives who might be able to help?
Surely this guy can't be the end all be all rishta for her mother? So what if he's the only person in the family, if the girl is decent and educated I'm sure she could find a more fitting rishta from outside the family just as easily.
Problem is not finding another decent rishta, problem is the mother's insecurities. She's been through a really hurtful relationship herself and doesn't want the girl to go through even the tiniest bit of pain. According to the mother this family will treat the girl like a princess (which is somewhat true).
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The girl has apprehensions about being with a person she doesn't feel is up to her level, I think she is entitled to that. But just to appease her mother maybe she should try and get to know this guy, sometimes education isn't everything and she might end up liking other aspects of him. He is from a good family after all, surely he must have some skills he could utilise in the US. However if despite all this the girl still feels the guy isn't right she should just let her mother know and bow out of the rishta arrangement, promises made in the past do not entitle her mother to emotionally blackmail her.
Edit: I didn't realise RV had already posted.
/thread :)
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She knows the guy well enough, the only thing lacking in him is the education which is the only thing (other than good morals) she looks for in a guy. She knows even if he ends up coming here with the girl's help, she'll never be able to give him the same level of respect a husband deserves. She doesn't want her husband to be delivering pizzas or driving cabs (which I guess is a valid demand?).
1) Explain to her that it's not as easy as him "getting a job" somehow. Minimum wage job? Takes years to graduate, etc. Bring this up with her.
LOL, this is not about me, its about my cousin. (:
She did...the mother's insecurities are taking over her senses. She thinks the girl will 'suffer' a lot somehow if she goes into people the mother doesn't know well enough.
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2) Good morals (and especially in conjunction with good looks) is a rare combination, I think. LOL. Don't downplay the good morals...it's a very strong quality and a very important one. You can be highly educated and have a chitty character. I'm not saying that you should marry him...nor am I saying that you shouldn't. It's your decision. Just consider all angles/consequences.
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True, but you do need some sort of education to survive in this country which can't be ignored.
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3) What do you mean that the mother thinks since the girl is studying she can take care over everything? Whose mother? And who is the "she" that supposed to take care of things? You? Or your mom?
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The girl can take of everything since she's studying and can get a well paid job.
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4) So have you told your cousin that you have no desire to marry him? If so...how did he respond? If he has "good morals" as you say....then he shouldn't impose this marriage on you. He should back out of it himself....and that way it comes to an end. Unless he's being pressured by his mom and can't say no....or unless he's more interested in settling in the US instead of your happiness. (that could contradict the good/strong morals) Have you talked to other relatives who might be able to help?
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The only other relatives she's in contact with are the ones from her mother's side, and they all agree with her mother that marrying within khandan is the best thing.
Done this already, the mother starts yelling or crying saying she has no other option.
She says its not an issue. He will 'finish his education and get a job here somehow like everyone else does'.
I wonder why the mum thinks he can complete his education just like that and get a job? Is it because she is so convinced there is no other option, she's failing to see the reality of the situation? Why does the mother think there is no other option, Pakistan ke kunwaray larkey khatam ho gaye hain kya?
I wonder why the mum thinks he can complete his education just like that and get a job? Is it because she is so convinced there is no other option, she's failing to see the reality of the situation? Why does the mother think there is no other option, Pakistan ke kunwaray larkey khatam ho gaye hain kya?
LOL...as I said the mother's social circle is very limited. She's not ready to trust a family in a short time to hand over her daughter just like that. And about the education part, one of her friend's daughter is a doctor here in America married to a guy from Multan with almost no education. The guy is here in states now taking care of the babies and the girl works. Her mother thinks since the girl is happy thats all that matters. =S
She knows the guy well enough, the only thing lacking in him is the education which is the only thing (other than good morals) she looks for in a guy. She knows even if he ends up coming here with the girl's help, she'll never be able to give him the same level of respect a husband deserves. She doesn't want her husband to be delivering pizzas or driving cabs (which I guess is a valid demand?).
^Okay, alright, let's work with that. I know that it's tough to adjust to the US..especially if you don't have a college degree. ANd many times those that do have one...end up going back to school as the credits don't match up. So, yes, the adjustment period would be a challenge.....and it's a valid concern, I agree.......though we know that it's not a permanent situation......(as in one can eventually graduate and get a job, etc). Now I'm gonna give you one example...and these are people I know REALLY well. The couple (both doctors from Pakistan) moved to the US. The husband had trouble passing the MCAT and some other tests I think. He was a doctor in Pakistan...but he had to take care of some educational requirements after moving to the US. Guess what? He worked as a pizza delivery boy.......and his wife was embarrassed. Now, even though I've never been in the wife's situation......i think it's wrong of her to feel that way. She cracked a few bitter jokes about him...and that's messed up...considering that she KNEW he had a good job back home. And she DID live off of that meager salary he brought home, if she's that embarrassed...she shouldn't have done so. After a year...or maybe less than year.....he started working as a doctor. She needed to be patient. And marriage entails supporting your partner through good times and bad times. Anyhow...they both moved back to Pak to be closer to family and are practicing medicine there. Now in your case....there may be a longer wait. But there's no guarantee that someone who is more educated wouldn't turn out to be a horrible spouse.
Have you tried discussing your concerns with your cousin? Maybe sit down and talk with him. Maybe look into options to help speed up the settling down process somehow.
Helpp...if you go through with this...it would require an attitude adjustment. He doesn't necessarily have to be a delivery boy or even a cab driver. He could get another job...something you might find more agreeable. He may not even work....if he takes a full load of classes (the maximum amount) which would get him done faster. And that may be a good thing in the sense that he can devote more time to finishing his education...since balancing a job with school is harder. Consider ALL angles/possibilities before reaching a decision. Talk to the guy about it.
LOL...as I said the mother's social circle is very limited. She's not ready to trust a family in a short time to hand over her daughter just like that. And about the education part, one of her friend's daughter is a doctor here in America married to a guy from Multan with almost no education. The guy is here in states now taking care of the babies and the girl works. Her mother thinks since the girl is happy thats all that matters. =S
Trust issues are fine but she can take her time to get to know a family well before she decides to go ahead with a rishta, she doesn't have to rush into anything. If her social circle is limited, then maybe she can ask her relatives to help? Does she have no extended family that can help her with this? That other girl might be happy with her stay at home husband but everyone has their own preference and your cousin obviously wants someone who can support her instead of depending on her. The mother shouldn't force a dependent husband on her daughter just because so and so is happy with their life, everyone's circumstances are different.
^Okay, alright, let's work with that. I know that it's tough to adjust to the US..especially if you don't have a college degree. ANd many times those that do have one...end up going back to school as the credits don't match up. So, yes, the adjustment period would be a challenge.....and it's a valid concern, I agree.......though we know that it's not a permanent situation......(as in one can eventually graduate and get a job, etc). Now I'm gonna give you one example...and these are people I know REALLY well. The couple (both doctors from Pakistan) moved to the US. The husband had trouble passing the MCAT and some other tests I think. He was a doctor in Pakistan...but he had to take care of some educational requirements after moving to the US. Guess what? He worked as a pizza delivery boy.......and his wife was embarrassed. Now, even though I've never been in the wife's situation......i think it's wrong of her to feel that way. She cracked a few bitter jokes about him...and that's messed up...considering that she KNEW he had a good job back home. And she DID live off of that meager salary he brought home, if she's that embarrassed...she shouldn't have done so. After a year...or maybe less than year.....he started working as a doctor. She needed to be patient. And marriage entails supporting your partner through good times and bad times. Anyhow...they both moved back to Pak to be closer to family and are practicing medicine there. Now in your case....there may be a longer wait. But there's no guarantee that someone who is more educated wouldn't turn out to be a horrible spouse.
Have you tried discussing your concerns with your cousin? Maybe sit down and talk with him. Maybe look into options to help speed up the settling down process somehow.
Delivering pizza for a short while knowing everything will be fine after a few years is a little different than waiting 4-6 years for someone to get their degree while they're still depending on you, and then another 2-3 to get a decent job. The guy is 24, not 20. And you're MARRYING a person, not importing someone so they can make their life better with your passport. If she does go ahead with the nikkah right now (mother wants it after 3-4 years) it will take 1-2 years to process. After he gets here and then what? Part time jobs and START his education? He'll be 30-31 by the time he gets his bachelors. And even if you take education out of the equation, there's nothing much to look forward to. What will he do when he comes here? How will he adjust knowing he's from a 'small town' back-home, not even Lahore or Karachi, but some other city.
The girl isn't demanding anything 'big' or out of her league. She just wants someone who at least has a bachelors and can provide her a comfortable living, not a mansion.
