Bhole!!
Religion is what makes you a human being a good person.
I apologize for any rude comments I have passed in this post!!!
dr who, in the light of five pillars of islam (or 5-7 pillars according to shias). please point out which pillar or fundamental or statement says believe in mohammet.sa as last prophet is obligatory?
in reply to faceup on the other thread i have narrated the words of mohammet.sa, regarding pillars of islam. please read that and tell me where it says mohammet.sa is the last prophet and being a muslim one should believe in that other wise he/she is not a muslim.
perhaps you so called baby-boomer-muslims of the present era have not only distorted islam but its actual meaning, equally. like the kalima muslim recites in pakitan, i remember how it is been taught in naee-roshnee iskoolz… “allah aik hai aur mohammet us kay pyaray aur akhree rasool hain”.. its very hard for me to find those words in arabic form of kalima. but that’s part of our maulvi-prescribed protocol. even if you ask some kids to explain the meaning of pakistan, they will say.. “pakistan ka matlab kya, la e la ha illal la”…. another good one, though its not related, “dama dam mast qalander, ali da pehla number” look at this hazrat ali.karam allah wahjho, is tattooed first instead of fourth in line.
you know it’s a saying of gandhi that “jhoot ko itna bolo kay loag usay sach samajhnay lagain”
according to my comprehension of islam in the light of quran and sunnah (aka bukhari & co.), recitation of kalima is sufficient for being a muslim. the rest is individual’s deeds and nobody is answerable for others. as allah says to mohammet.sa that you are send as a admonisher so just warn them, you are not appointed a keeper over them. (al.ghashiyah summary last few verses)
so doc, let me see which quran you follow. have you ever tried to seek any morality from that book? or like others you also want to limp on your parents, your madarsas and your hatred-filled environment?
remember you are just born muslim by CHANCE and not CHOICE, if you had given a choice in the light of present day islamic teachings i am sure you would have chosen to become an idol-worshiper rather than a follower of mohammet.sa.
say what you perceive by your understanding and wisdom, and not what your parents followed or forced you to follow. allah has given every human a gift of intellectual ability. use it or let it be corroded. the choice is yours.
i am not here to fight with you people but sometimes its hard to swallow stupidity.
`religion’ is something which targets at an individual level and furnishes him with ethical and moral reconditioning. which collectively forms a society based on that ethical and moral contributions and forms the so called codes of living. at the same time it also enforces to follow one supreme being who is the creator of those individuals and the environment they live within. islam tops the list cause first it respects all the other religions, secondly without down looking others it fills up all the deficient areas which other religions fails to patch up. (sorry i am not good at english but thats how i want to express my opinion about islam.)
[This message has been edited by nanga .]
Nanga, you are the last person I expected over here!!!!
[quote]
Originally posted by nanga ]:
dr who, in the light of five pillars of islam (or 5-7 pillars according to shias). please point out which pillar or fundamental or statement says believe in mohammet.sa as last prophet is obligatory?
[/quote]
I dont find it appropriate discussing this matter with you!!
This post has taken a very bad and predictable turn!!! Very sad!
People tell us, what being a Muslim means to you?
What would you be without Islam?
Don't go punching other religions, if you really want to do that, open another post and discuss it there.
*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
Nanga go put on some clotes the cold has frozen your brian to the part where it barks like a dog!
When you have your clothes on do wudhu and start reading the Quran and find the part where it says that Mohammed (a.s) is the last messenger of god(prophet).
P.s go fast winter is comming soon!
Im a bit confused NY, I know Ahmadis believe in God, but aren't you an atheist?, I thought you were 'Ahmadi' by name only. Seems you are pretty devoted to it from your above post.. , wish to clarify?<<<
By all means Strongman. What has made you think that I am an Atheist? I do have legitimate reasons to either accept or deny the existence of God (perhaps Agnostic is the term that you should use, and not an Atheist). But that is a philosophical issue and is not a religious one. My idea of God (or creator, or whatever name you may have for her or him) might not be the same as yours.
My affinity and my connection to my “religion” is as natural as the air I breath. It is not a bind that is glued by our “common or uncommon beliefs” but by nature (just as a kitten sucks his mommy’s tits whether black or white, yellow or purple).
In spite of all that happened? Because of all that happened?
Your reasons for what it means to you to be a Muslim are very praiseworthy and admirable.
To me also, to be Ahmadi Muslim means to seek fulfillment both as an Ahmadi and as a Human Being. For me, an Ahmadi Muslim means Humanity and being an Ahmadi must go together.
It is because of that, that I claim total kinship with my people.
RE: dr. who: what's holding you back bro? please be my guest, say what you want. perhaps we might end up in something considerable.
RE: Desert fox: ok my humble friend got your point. now could you please elaborate your views with references.
{PS} welcome back to gupshup.
RE: Ahmadi: your reply is quite appreciable. i hardly see such type of statements from my muslim brothers over here (except few) who had ever spoken on humanitarian grounds.
[This message has been edited by nanga .]
Ny Ahmadi
I feel really sorry for all of you Ahmedi people. It has to be very sad that after being part of the best religion in the world you people got lost in the unthinkable. You were all muslims and you all knew that Allah (swt) had said that Mohammed (pbuh) was his last prophet. But you had to disobey Allah (swt). Please tell me just one thing, if you are not willing to listen to Allah (swt) when He says that Mohammed (pbuh) was his last prophet then what rights do you have to ask us the rest of the muslims to treat you as one of us.
A day will come and it is not too far away, I can assure you when you will be able to accept your mistakes and stop considering that Mirza gulam guy or whatever his name is as your prophet and we will be brothers again.
Islam is the only way forward and one day everybody in the world will embrace Islam, even the Ahmedis.
Sorry if this sounds ignorant but will any of you, tauba tauba or Dr.Who or NYAhmadi explain to me if im right in thinking that Ahmadis believe there will be another prophet after Mohammad (pbuh). I really dont know much about their beliefs but i am interested b/c i just met these two Pakistani Ahmadi girls.
look it's very simple, Allah(swt) tells us in the holy Quran that Mohammed(pbuh) is his last prophet. Who are we to argue.
I read the comments made by some of you guys and I must say I was very disappointed. I don't want to start another debate....but did anyone has actually ever study the Ahmadiyyat and their beliefs or it just because the mullah in mosque told you??.
Why not we should have a separate thread in which NY Ahmadi could tell everyone what ahmadies believe on.
[This message has been edited by Insaaniat (edited September 29, 2000).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Insaaniat:
**
Why not we should have a separate thread in which NY Ahmadi could tell everyone what ahmadies believe on.
**
[/quote]
because it will not be constructive
[quote]
Originally posted by astrosfan:
** because it will not be constructive**
[/quote]
But you think it is constructive to post remarks about Ahmadies and their beliefs??
Actually I hoping to hear somthing from NYAhmadi or Girl from Quraysh
[This message has been edited by Insaaniat (edited September 29, 2000).]
yes insaneyat that’s the point, has anyone studied ahmediyut or its image is acquired from ishteyaq ahmed novels? they not only say mirza was a prophet but also the promised imam mehdi of the later days. aren’t muslims waiting for one? so whats the big deal if they found one.
despite of massive pressure from the greater muslim population, they are increasing by leaps and bounds. i was reading a report from india, it goes, ahmedies-muslims are increasing throughout the world, this year in india only, 20million (actual figure written was two karors) muslims accepted ahmediyut. why is that, are they bribing innocent muslims by the british fundings, or the intellect is moving towards the knowledge?
only a single quranic verse, which in fact literally translated as the ‘seal of the prophet’ is creating a rift. to me a new prophet or an imam mehdi is a secondary issue. the most important questions which should come to mind is that are their teaching differ the present day islam or is superior or inferior than islam. are they doing anything positive for islam or necrosing its foundations. one has to analyze all the aspects ‘personally’ before coming to a final conclusion. (please don’t refer me to web sites - thankyou).
islam is a religion of peace. but its hard to find a trace of it either because of our egos or our background environment. today islam is spliced into so many sects, so what if they have segregated themselves. all claim to be right at their best. who knows who is more accurate. only allah knows the best. so lets not play gods and ask our lord to guide us on the right path. aameen
Nanga!!
As I have previously said, its impossible talking with you on this matter, Cause u just come up with the most bizzare ideas ever.
[quote]
Originally posted by Insaaniat:
....but did anyone has actually ever study the Ahmadiyyat and their beliefs or it just because the mullah in mosque told you??.
[This message has been edited by Insaaniat (edited September 29, 2000).]
[/quote]
Why should we study something which is not right. When Allah has said That prophet Muhammed (SAS) was sent as the Khatim un Nabi. There is no point for further discussion. With the coming of Quran and Prophet Muhammed (SAS) the religion of Islam was complete, there is absolutely no need for another prophet!!
I totaly agree with all of you who want to know more about Ahmadiat It is true we might even improve by reading what he has to say.
About nangas answer one piller of Islam is Quran so if you follow the Quran and understand it them you might also know that Mohammed (P.B.U.H) is the last messenger of God!! Does that give you any enlightment?
Thanks for listening!
Desert Fox
so dr. whatever and humble fox, how can you assure yourself as the righteous personalities and future tenants of jannah? you ignorant muslims believe that to enter jannah one must declare that mohammet.sa was the last prophet, that’s the only question that will be asked at the pearly gate. assessment of taqwa and haqooqul ibas is exempted for muslims.
browse through the religious history and you will not be surprise to see how religions were distorted. there is not a single sect present today who claim that they are true followers of that religion. can you say this about islam? look twice before you say yes. if you are following perfect teachings then why you people have spliced your religion into so many sect according to your desires. even for example in sunnis, you find separate mosques for every ideology. why is that? i agree, allah has given guarantee that it will prevail this religion on others, but he has not given any security that he will keep it pure in hearts till the judgment day. Only those who seek his blessing will prevail.
regarding the qadiani-kafir issue, i don’t find any hadith or quranic verdict for muslims to declare others as kafir. do you any example? this is the sad back of islam, today it has become more like a territorial business, one who follow the laws is acceptable, all others are not allowed to enter.
i was talking to someone on the same issue and he said, so what if we differ so what if we drink or gamble around, at least we all agree that allah is one and rasool is last. big deal if they make separate mosques. yea exactly, whats the big deal. lets wear the badge of mohammet.sa and start again bashing sahibs or strip off someone religious figures.
{PS} keep your interpretation of your quran to your self. let me ask allah for my protection and progression. you go to your maulvis for your guidance.
How can you ask Allah for protection when you cant get it through your Thick Skull that Allah has Given you the Greatest Gift that is the Quran and you fail to recognise it's Impotance and its Truth. Tomorrow someone will say That Pharoh was god and I guess Nanga will be his true follower! Because the Gaurds at heaven wont ask you who was Pharoh. You my friend are going towrds the Darkness and it is my Duty to guide you as you are my muslim brother. Now please dont Question the Quran, Gods word and the Greatness of our last prophet. There are no pillars of Islam there is Only Quran and the sunnah of Prophet and also the right of his Family. Quran is right and If its written in the Quran that Mohammed (PBUH) is the khatameen then he is the last and anyone who does not belive this my friend is not muslim. so Cristains are right in beliving Jesus is gods son according to your theroy. Now if Mhohammed is not the last messenger than Jesus is gods son(asthagfirrula)now prove Jesus is not gods son. which you cant because you will have to use the Quran as your reason! so if you can prove that Jesus is not gods son.
[This message has been edited by Desert fox (edited September 30, 2000).]
I was trying to avoid discussing this issue in this thread but cant resist.
[QUOTE]
Why should we study something which is not right. When Allah has said That prophet Muhammed (SAS) was sent as the Khatim un Nabi. There is no point for further discussion.
Dr.Who
Do you think studing other religion is not right??if not then how can you can convence others. Until you know what are their belief.
Will discussing the subject make you less muslim or will it affected you belief in any way?
[This message has been edited by Insaaniat (edited September 30, 2000).]
Originally posted by Desert fox: **
If its written in the Quran that Mohammed (PBUH) is the khatameen then he is the last and anyone who does not belive this my friend is not muslim.
**
quran does say mohammet.sa is khatam un nabeeyeen but i am not sure how you translated this word khatam (not khatim) as last. i believe it means seal of the prophets, meaning greatest of all the prophets.
by the way what does the meaning last testifies? doest this interpretation ‘last’ excels the personality of mohammet.sa over other prophets? i fail to understand the significance of last prophet, please assist me.
if you say it means 'last law-bearing' prophet, that’s acceptable, i can agree with that, because its doesn’t contradicts with other statements of quran.
{PS} please write down the ayat and explain your meaning of that particular word in the light of quran.
{PS} your fatwa about the denial of this meaning is not muslim, is very loose.
[This message has been edited by nanga .]