Re: What are your thoughts on polygamous marriage/being a co-wife?
Islamically, women can’t have more than one husband at a time. I don’t actually suppot that ideology. I realize there are subcultures and societies where having multiple husbands or wives is a norm. I think I need a disclaimer under every post of mine that declares whether I support the idea I am even arguing. -___-
Re: What are your thoughts on polygamous marriage/being a co-wife?
lol why on earth is it UNFAIR for a man to need to ask his wife if he can marry another woman to sleep with? are you actually being serious??
Re: What are your thoughts on polygamous marriage/being a co-wife?
He is being very serious. Even has a cherry on top.
Re: What are your thoughts on polygamous marriage/being a co-wife?
I am very serious. You however can’t possibly be serious about getting this ridiculous takeaway from my post.
That would be she but thank you for answering on my behalf.
Re: What are your thoughts on polygamous marriage/being a co-wife?
you can make it illegal in the west, maybe.
Better consult God/Quran before you grant wives a option for “2nd husband”. Let us know how it goes.
Re: What are your thoughts on polygamous marriage/being a co-wife?
oh my gosh you are a woman as well and are questioning why does a husband need his wifes permission? so you don’t think your husband would need your permission to take another woman? wooooo…ow!
Re: What are your thoughts on polygamous marriage/being a co-wife?
Then show evidence where Rasullullah condoned a situation where a man was asked to take on a second wife, and the first wife said she wasn’t comfortable with it, and he stopped such a marriage, because the consent of the first wife wasn’t present?
There is such a situation that happened. Between Fatima (R) and Ali (R). Ali (R) was asked to look into a marriage proposal (and at that time, polygamy was so accepted that rishtas commonly went to men who were already married from a girl’s family), he went to inquire about it. And this upset Fatima (R). She was NOT consenting to be part of a polygamous arrangement. She had been INFORMED, and she was NOT CONSENTING.
Rasulullah (SAW) interfered and called Ali (R) and asked him to not take the second wife, because this upset Fatima (R) so much.
This is an example of where consent IS required, not just INFORMING the wife.
Re: What are your thoughts on polygamous marriage/being a co-wife?
There is no such as “permission” that is for sure. However, as i stated in my post earlier not to deceive your partner by not letting her know of your intention. If she is ok with arrangement that is fine. And if not, and upon seeing your wife is upset and more than willing to break your relationship over this with you then..do not do it. Simple.
The thing is, ghar ko bachana hai!..
Re: What are your thoughts on polygamous marriage/being a co-wife?
There is a mullah brigade out there that is pushing this theory. It’s sick. We have to be careful of people who twist things in Islam.
Rasullullah’s example with his daughter and his son-in-law is sufficient of a hadith that jurisprudence should REQUIRE consent of the first wife. This is why the Pakistani law actually requires consent, unlike some Arab countries. However, now this poisonous extremist mullah brigade (they’re always wahabbi influenced, so you have to be careful of the wahabbis - they have an age old agenda of perverting Islam, I argue, Shaitaan has gotten to them), that are pushing this agenda that consent is not required.
Subjecting women and their children to polygamous relationships that are not done out of a societal need but rather lust, is against Islam. It’s a misuse of polygamy. You’re allowed to eat meat right, but even the Quran recommends “manna” and so the interpretation is actually that yes eat meat, but GLUTTONY of meat isn’t allowed. Killing and devouring too much meat isn’t good for you. Everything in balance. Likewise, misusing polygamy to oppress your wife - then it becomes haraaam if a good thing is used for the purposes of oppression. In other words, men who aren’t happy with the former wife and bring in the second because their former relationship is going south. So this is now a punishment to your first wife.
Hamza Yusuf in his lectures has lectured that whenever something Islamically is being used for the purposes of oppression (and doing something against someone’s consent = oppression) then it is no longer halaal. I agree w/his position on this.
There are many many scholars who state you need consent. Far more than the ones who say you don’t.
And like I said, you have Fatima (R)'s example in front of you. Ali (R) stayed monogamous with Fatima (R). There were no co-wives.
Re: What are your thoughts on polygamous marriage/being a co-wife?
And for those saying CONSENT is not required, then you must think Rasullullah SAW was wrong in his judgement on Ali (R)?
So I guess you think the Prophet SAW went against Allah’s law?
Re: What are your thoughts on polygamous marriage/being a co-wife?
You are misunderstanding that example. That example validates what I am saying (informing), and not what you are saying (consent). Prophet and Hazrat Faitma were informed of Hazrat Ali planing to marry Abu Jehal’s daughter. At that time, prophet or Hazrat Fatima did not say no. They said that Ali if you want to, then you have to leave Fatima. This is exactly I am saying, that you have to inform the first wife, and she can decided to stay with you, or leave you. At the end, Hazrat Ali changed his decision, as he wanted to stay with Hazrat Fatima.
Re: What are your thoughts on polygamous marriage/being a co-wife?
Huh what?! What are YOU smoking?? Islam does not require a wife’s consent for a second marriage. I stated it is unfair that the first wife has no say if her husband decides to take on a second wife. She can either leave him or accept his second marriage. She does not have a choice to continue her life as is and that to me seems unfair. But again as TLK’s posts have shown, there is a lot of historical context behind this verse. However the bottom line remains…a man does not need his wife’s permission to marry again.
Re: What are your thoughts on polygamous marriage/being a co-wife?
In Pakistan, given the strong social stigma a divorce carries for a woman, she pretty much has two choices,
Where is the choice in any of this? I fail to see it. The few examples I do know of, involving polygamous relationships (in Pakistan), its very obvious that its been forced on the first wife. Why can’t we fight this social ill, which obviously partially cultivates misogyny, rather than condoning it, or saying that’s how it was done in the 7th century Arabia, and that’s how we need to implement it?
Why not concentrate on how it unfolds in practice, rather than concentrating on how its supposed to be in theory? No doubt this practice is very unfair on women.
Re: What are your thoughts on polygamous marriage/being a co-wife?
No, no no…that’s not the hadith.
The hadith is that Rasullullah (SAW) addressed Ali (R) when he heard of how hurt his daughter was and advised him to not pursue the second marriage. Even if there was a condition placed that “If 2nd marriage is pursued, then give a divorce to the first”, then this still supports the position that you cannot and are not allowed to keep two women in a polygamous state if one or both don’t want it. You have to either stay with your first wife, or you have to file for divorce.
That IS actually supporting consent. Because if you did not need the consent, then first wife can be INFORMED, as Fatima R was, and she has to be obliged to stay in the marriage against her will because she as a muslim is sinning by now allowing her husband to take a second wife. The fact that she can file for divorce on this grounds in the first place shows that the CONSENT is needed otherwise the marriage can’t happen.
I don’t know if I’m explaining myself well here. If Consent was NOT REQUIRED, but simply INFORMING was required, then a judge has no grounds to grant a divorce/khula to the first wife, because we are saying that consent isn’t required in the first place, therefore, the husband hasn’t wronged the first wife in any way.
There is a problem, that’s why the divorce gets filed.
We’d have to pull up the wordings of the hadith to discuss this, but from what I remember reading, the Prophet (SAW) told Ali (R) to not take a second wife since this is hurting his daughter. Not that it’s ok you do it, I’ll just talk to my daughter and convince her to be patient.
Re: What are your thoughts on polygamous marriage/being a co-wife?
I don’t think we can talk about marriages in Pakistan, especially paindoo village Pakistan, and compare it to the religious marriages we saw in early Islam. Mainly because the Pakistanis aren’t practicing Islam in the first place in their marriages.
In Islam
So basic Islamic concepts are not being adhered to. How would polygamy possibly not get abused in Pakistan then?
Re: What are your thoughts on polygamous marriage/being a co-wife?
I think it’s unfair to look at how a muslim practices an Islamic concept POORLY, then use THAT as a barometer to define that practice.
We can do the same w/namaz or reading the Quran. In Pakistan, there is no meditation that gets taught with namaz and reading Quran. People are not taught the meaning, they’re taught the arabic by the Qari sahab. They’re beaten with sticks if they mispronounce a syllable as they’re LEARNING for crying out loud. Speed of recitation is an actual factor, not understanding any of the words. You can go your whole lifetime, only be constantly reciting the arabic, and never understanding a word, and people will give you wah-wah’s on how religious and spiritual you are. Meanwhile, you have no clue what you just read. Namaz likewise isn’t practiced as a spiritual/meditational excercise. Not taught this way. It’s taught as a form of motions you go through 5 times per day, and if you don’t read the rakat the way you were taught (nevermind that there are different styles of namaz worldwide), and if you don’t fold your janamaz over for a break, and if you don’t life your finger during this prayer thus, and nevermind the whole time you’re speaking in arabic and you have NO CLUE what you’re saying.
So does this mean we shouldn’t read the Quran anymore? No, we need to fix how we teach the Quran to kids. Does this mean, namaz is useless? Well yeah if we read it like the way Pakistanis read it, then yes, it’s useless. You meditate during it, and you focus on the concept of God as you pray, and you empty your mind of other thoughts, and you KNOW WHAT the WORDS COMING OUT OF YOUR MOUTH EVEN MEAN, then yes, it’s actually beneficial.
If we use Pakistanis as a barometer for Islam, then one would just end up concluding it’s an entirely useless religion.
Re: What are your thoughts on polygamous marriage/being a co-wife?
The fact that she can file for divorce means that information is needed. I think we are going in loops here.
Here are 2 versions of the Hadees. Where in those 2 versions, do you see Hazrat Ali asking for Fatima’s consent?
And in another Hadith:
Re: What are your thoughts on polygamous marriage/being a co-wife?
I’m not comparing whats happening in Pakistan to what Islam says or doesn’t say. I’m merely stating ground realities for most women in polygamous relationships in Pakistan. Its not only the ground realities in villages, but also in towns.
No one here seems to be willing to be part of polygamous relationships themselves, but they are fine with it, if its imposed on unfortunate women in Pakistan, as long as there is “consent”. In most cases there is no consent, because the first wife will have to choose between the lesser of two evils. Why wish upon others, which people are not willing to undergo themselves?
Don’t see why we preach how it’s supposed to be implemented in theory, when we know that in practice it’s (mostly) forced on women in Pakistan. Better to fight this social ill, than condone it. The practice is extremely unfair on women.
I tend to stick to whats actually ocurring, rather than what should be occurring if we did this or if we did that. As a side note, not that it’s relevant in this discussion, religious rules and regulations will always be prone to abuse, because there will never be consensus among the followers of the religion on how the rule is supposed to be implemented. Some will say A, others will say B, as is even evident in this thread. 
PS, no need to mention Paindoo villages in particular, that was hurtful. 
Re: What are your thoughts on polygamous marriage/being a co-wife?
If consent is NOT required, then Rasullullah (SAW) would have told his daughter to have patience, and that this is Ali (R)'s right as a man. He did not. He told Ali (R) - you either stay put with my daughter or divorce her if you plan on marrying again.
And the concept that the girl is the daughter of a disbeliever is bogus, because we all know that you can have a relative who is a kafir, but if YOU are a believer, then you can be married to a muslim man. So that she is the daughter of Abu Jahl wasn’t the reason for the intervention. It was that Fatima (R) for whatever reason, wasn’t consenting. She was informed, but she did not consent to the union.
Therefore - end result, it did not happen. And if it did, she had a right to walk with a divorce. The third option which is being supported by wahabbi sick maulvis is that consent is not required and the woman has to live with it. This was not an option even in Fatima (R)'s case, otherwise, Prophet (SAW) would have proposed this as an option.
Bottom line, bringing in a second wife when it is clearly hurting the first (i.e. NO CONSENT) is not permissable. And we know this because the option of divorce is there.
It doesn’t make sense to state a woman has no right to consent to polygamy but she has a right to divorce the guy for his pursuit of polygamy. If she has no right to consent, then she has no leg to stand on to ask for a divorce, because her husband hasn’t wronged her.
Re: What are your thoughts on polygamous marriage/being a co-wife?
You are completely misreading this Hadith. The Prophet acted as a father would. He saw his daughter was distraught that her husband was going to get another wife so he told Hazrat Ali not to do it. Tell me one thing. If consent was required, there was no issue! Hazrat Fatima would simply say no you may not marry again and that would be the end of the story. But because consent is not required, she was upset and the Prophet stepped in to tell Hazrat Ali not to proceed with the second marriage.
Also you don’t need grounds for Khula/divorce so your argument doesn’t make sense there either. You only need your husband’s consent for Khula or you can always get a divorce if you have availed yourself of that right in your Nikah contract.
And lastly you make it seem as if a man wanting to be physically intimate with another woman is never a legitimate reason to get married again. It can be and again it’s perfectly fine as long as he treats all his wives equally. Keep in mind being equal and fair doesn’t mean loving them equally. A man can be more fond of one wife over the other and again there is nothing wrong with that as long as he treats them equally.
You are trying too hard to make sense of this using circular logic. Islam is a very straightforward religion. It is what it is.