alright hanibal, lets try it again.. you said so many times i havent answered your questions that you raised.. (like as if you have answered every questions i asked you..but anyhow).
Agreed. But then again, what is that thing that Dr. Israr sahib really has fun telling? the one eye monster?.. something that will eat fire?? etc? correct me if im wrong but isnt that dajjal?
What do you want me to comment here?.. Frankly speaking, I dont even know which sect of people here am i really talking to?.. People like aramis comes and tell me heaven and hell is physical place.. (dont know which school of thought shes from)...if i quote tahir ul qadri or israr ahmad or zakir naik.. you tell me that they can believe whatever they like.. please let me know who really is the ullama from whom you are getting this false interpretation of Quran from? How about moududi? will it be ok for me to quote him sometimes in my posts?
again, there is no point me saying same thing over and over. My father was a non-ahmadi muslim and i very well know the beliefs sunni people hold. I also tell you the same to not follow anything blindly either.
Indeed by words you are free to say whatever you like. Calling ahmadis with names is more than enough for someone to show hatred towards them. Why would you want to invite us to the true religion when we already are believer of Muhammad Mustafa PBUH and the religion of Allah .. Islam. ? I have repeatedly said.. our belief is the same, only problem is the recognition of the person. I really want to know what would u be called by other Muslims ( who wont accept imam Mahdi ..whoever it may be for u .. ) if you accept imam mahdi and other muslims dont? would you differentiate yourself from Islam? Put yourself in my shoe and answer.
You see what your problem is now right?.. We accept each and every hadith provided by ur side.. when we do the same.. you come up something like the hadith is consider da'eef and classing it fabricated. Same is done when we provide you with the prophecy of lunar and solar eclipse. "it is fabricated"...Very well sir. Take that very hadith and reconcile it with another hadith when Muhammad PBUH says (not exact words..will provide exact words upon requesting), that how would it be when Esa AS will be amongst you and your Imam will be amongst you? This shows that the person Hazoor PBUH is referring to is one and the same. He AS is to be given the title of Esa AS but He AS has to be from the ummah of Muhammad PBUH.
Dont believe in the word of jews. It is against Islam to call books sent by Allah as being fabricated. I know, you are now going to quote me for saying that. I also believe they were being fabricated. But to how much extent? you and me are not here to judge that. Theres also some possibility that the word of God you might be referring to as being fabricated MAY HAVE some verses saved.. again, its not for us to judge that. Jews 'rejected' Hazrat Yahya AS to have come as Elijah AS. Forget about what else they have to say. They rejected Hazrat Yahya AS, and hence for that reason they would not be lying. They were indeed waiting for Elijah AS to come. Theres no question in that. Jesus AS pointing Hazrat Yahya AS to be Elijah AS leaves no room of doubt that Jews at that time were not waiting for Elijah's appearance before Jesus AS himself.
You say, i didnt answer you? Look at your question. Does it need an answer really?.. When I ask you question, dont put another question on top of it.. rather clear it first and then u have the right to question me. ( nothing against this post of yours tho..but countless times i have asked u question earlier which went unanswered... i thought i'd point that out to you too..)
OK. Tell me which school of thought u are coming from? or that if you are with aramis on the issue of death/raised up alive of Jesus AS? So according to you, Jesus AS ( who according to Miss Aramis09 will "NOT NOT NOT" be a nabi ) will come and christians will believe him?.. Very senseless belief. Jesus AS were sent for those people. Them accepting Him AS again make no sense. You will now say that He'll preach Islam. Again, if He AS will NOT be a nabi, how will He AS really understand Islam? What is the need of Allah sending down previous Prophet to preach religion which was revealed to Muhammad PBUH after Him AS? His only mission will be to convert Christians to Islam? When Prophet Muhammad PBUH couldnt do it.. how can a person who is not even a Nabi ,according to aramis09, can accomplish such huge success? I'm amazed how you just randomly thought the last reply i gave you was irrelevent. According to you, all christians will convert to Islam.. what if some dont? will you point a finger then to him being truthful? It is Allah's choice whosoever Allah want to show guidance.. Allah says if i want I can make every single human a believer..its not a problem for him. Why leave this just on Jesus AS arrival? why letting christians die without embracing Islam? Care to explain?
again, you didnt make your point clear.. sure he will not bring new shariyah.. but will He AS be still a nabi? There has never been a nabi of Allah whose purpose is to kill people who dont believe him. Sorry, but this is hard to digest. A prophet whose purpose is to solely kill people who dont believe him. Allah has never given any prophet this right. Why then Jesus AS? (Infact, if you see, He AS will be killing his own people (jews)..) Prophets just fortell that theres going to be disaster if you dont believe him. Killing them, my friend can not be the prophet from Allah.
It is not easy to say that someone is sent by God. You think anyone can claim to be imam mahdi? Show me a person like Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS whose claims were like Him AS and whose jamaat is like jamaat e Ahmadiyya? You have more danger from Christianity but caring less about Hindus, Sikhs , Zoroastrians etc..?
Anyway.. you said Muslims were slaves at the time of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS? u sure? the government of Britain gave Muslims the right to say adhaan out loud when Sikhs stopped Muslims from saying it. Muslims other than that were living peacefully and in harmony .. when were they slaves? even if they were according to you, care to explain who the war should have started against?
Jesus AS miracle is limited to Him. No other prophet of Allah can have His miracles.. his miraculous birth etc is for Him. Esa IBN Maryam is dead, but the mission of Esa AS that is said to be that He AS is to bring people to Islam, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad AS did exactly the same.
You said this so many times. Have you realized that? Reason why i brought Miraaj in the discussion is to make my point clear about death of Jesus son of Mary AS. But you're too much into your own childish questions.
Dear Mr. Popat, I thought you are a sensible guy, who want to discuss things with neutrel mind-set, but ur attitude shows different approach.
anyway... lets go to my questions, as i understand from ur reply that, u have no idea about them, i'll try to make them clear to you and see if you chooses to reply me on this occasion or not!!!
My first question was
[quote]
Now, I guess you are referring to Hadees of Prophet Mohammad (SAAW) in which it is said ( not the exact words), that there is no Mehdi except, Essa (AS) and if i am not wrong here, all the Qadayani/Ahmadi belief is revloving around the very concept you have mentioned.
Now According to Scholars of Ilm-e-Hadees, the hadees is either fabricated or is Dae'ef, Scholars like Al-Hakim, Qurtubi and Al Bayhaqi cosider it Da''eef and others like Imam Nisa'ai, Al-Dhahabi, Ibn-e-Tameemah and Al-Sanaa'i classed it fabricated. (ref. Minhaaj-ul-Sunnah, Al-Silsilah-al Da'eef)
***Now the best scenario to suit ur case, is to take Al-Hakim and Qurtubi's view point, which says that the hadees is Da'eef, now you know that an important religious affair cannot be based on some Da'eef hadees, it does not make any logic nor it does carrys any weight!!! or Does it!!!
[/quote]
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[Question]** I am asking that if an important religous belief can be based on a Daéef/Fabricated hadees.
[The reason] The above hadees is somehow provide/support and/or considered as basic pillar of Ahmadiyat/Qadyaniyat, now when the hadees has been classified as fabricated one and that is hunderds of years before Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadyani claims to be a prophet, then how come the same can be used support claim of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadyani. Imam.
[quote]
You want me to believe the Word of Jews and their testament!!! their books,which are fabricated to an extent where, Allah has to refute all of their books??? These Jews who said that Prophet Yehya ( AS) use to eat locust and grass-hooper and was a dirty man, who was born as in normal.. Well, in case you have not noticed that, The birth of Yehya (AS) was a miraculus birth as well, When Allah All Mighty Told Prophet Zakaria (AS) that he will have a son, and the prophet said, that how can i have son, I am old man and my wife cannot deliver one!!!
the reason i mentioned the interpretation of Quranic verse and About Miraculus birth of Prophet Yahya, jews have fabricated their books, they were wating for the Return of Prophet Elijah (Illyas) (AS), Jews have no no doubtly fabricated their books and i'll not be surprised that in order to compete on Return of Jeses, they have used something like Return of Elijah (AS), who to startwith, have no reason to goto heaven in bodily form, unlike Jesus (AS). I can argue on this notion in length,but it will certainly derail the topic, so I may put forward my question that, in case there are two contradicting divine verses, one from Old-testament and one from Quran, which will you take.. your answer wil help us to sort out this issue as well
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**[Question] **Which divine book is more credible, Quran or Earlier ones??
**[Reason] **You are putting forward the case of Elijah (AS) and Yehya (AS) and i am putting forward a comment on that, did Quran tells us the same, do we have to believe what Jews use to believe? Isn't it that their believes were wrong and thats why the Allah All mighty have sent Prophet after Prophet to call them back on the right path and they in reply, either refuted these Prophets or get them killed... So Should i beilieve the words of their book, which is a defected version...
[quote]
Now, for sake of discussion, let say Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadayni was the promised Messiah, and his claim to be Messiah was true, did he did, what the promise Messiah should have done??? Christainity is still there!!! the most important part of prophecy is, the moment Jesus will Return, all the christains will convert, and this will happen in his life time... i am not asking to give me all the chirstains in the world but it seems that the chirstians of India, even didn't bought it!!! Please explain on this!!!!
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**[Question] **Asking for the signs ! is this his hard to answer?
**[Reason] **For the Return of Jesus (AS), there are several signs, Like his miraculus birth, he return shall have miraculus effect, now there are ahadees talking about the signs, how many of these signs were carried by Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadyani, if was the promised Messiah? Please refer to my post their i have elaborated this particular question.
So all in all i only asked three questions, which was not answered, in my next reply, i'll try to analyze ur attempt to answer these, which is post # 572 of this thread.