What actually happened at Karbala

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Wasalaam Psyah, if one remembers Imam Hussains' sacrifice only "once a year" then i am not sure to what extent s/he is fulfiling obligations set upon him/her as a Muslim by the Allah Almighty and his Prophet. Unfortunately though I think large majority of us have forgotten the Ahlul Bayt and that is why we as Muslims are in a state that is quite shameful to say the least.

Allama Iqbal said:

Insaan ko bedar tou ho lenay dou
Har qaoum pukaray gi humaray hein Hussain

Super and Permanent Lotay Joining Imran Khan's PTI
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Yeah, some people are desperately trying to find Yazid today.

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:salam: ramesha

Please explain what you mean by the above emboldended words … are you saying that it is an obligation to remember the sacrifice of Imam Hussain?

Okay we are speaking on this forum remembering the sacrifice of Imam Hussain is it necessary to bawl and mourn or are there better ways to remember the sacrifice and furthermore actually DO something? I know some people give food on this occasion … I believe this is a nice gesture. What key thing can we learn from the sunnah of Imam Hussain (RA)?

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Re: What actually happened at Karbala

Where in Islam it is said one shed his own blood or inflict pain??

Mourning, crying, (let alone screaming, pulling hair) for over three days as far as I remember is not considered good in Islam.

(The discussion does seem to be fruitless however)

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It can be removed by Mods if not considered appropriate but I think its taken way too far…the idea of mourning.

Anyone thinks these are true or phtoshopped pictures? I am not sure. Specially the bottom two.
**
Edited: I am not removing it but am adding a warning for the viewers.**
**
WARNING !!! The pictures below might not be appropriate for some viewers because it contains blood and wounds. Please avoid it if you don’t want to see it!**

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Re: What actually happened at Karbala

With all due respect to everyone's beliefs, let us follow the footsteps of the prophet (Saw), Hazrat Imam Hassan (a.s) and Hazrat Imam Hussain (a.s)

Do we consider the Prophet (saw) our role model so that we follow his foot steps in every act ? YES!

His beloved relative Hazrat Hamza (r.a) was blessed with shahadat and the way his body was cut and eaten was indeed very painful for the Prophet (saw).

Did the Prophet (saw) hit himself in anyway ? Did he made loud voices of crying while mourning the shahadat of Hazrat Hamza. Did he mourned his death every year on that specific date on which Hazrat Hamza got shahadat??

Do you want to speak of honor ? Hazrat Zakarya (a.s) and Hazrat Yahya (a.s), (being the PROPHETS) were paised by Allah (swt) in the Quran and are indeed greater in degree than Hazrat Imam Hussain (r.a). Both father and son were brutally butchered one of them was cut into two halves from the center of his head. Did the prophet (saw) mourned their death "every year on a particular day" by crying or hitting himself or wounding himself ?

WHY ?!? May be because we know that when we cry or hurt ourselves for anyone it hurts the people for whom we are doing it. Don't you think Imam Hussain (r.a) would be sad and in pain after knowing so many people are crying and hurting themselves for his shahadah. He would actually want all of us to serve Islam instead of mourning.

Let us follow the footsteps of our prophet (saw) by doing deeds that attract people towards Islam and make our life hereafter better. IF mourning and hiting oneself was that honorable than it would have been mentioned in the Quran or at least Hazrat Hassan (r.a) would have done that on the shahadat of Hazrat Ali (r.a), or Hazrat Imam Hussain (r.a) would have done it on the shahadat of Hazrat Ali (r.a) and Hazrat Hassan (r.a)

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Re: What actually happened at Karbala

In our neighbors a child was my youngest brother's class fellow (aged 7 years old). When my brother placed hand on his back, he started saying "ahhhhh....." with pain and insisted that my brother remove hand from his shoulder. After my brother asked him the reason of the wound on his back, he said that he was hesitating to hurt himself with the blade, so his father did the honors by taking it from him and put those wounds on him by hitting him very hard. The only question the poor little mind could have thought of was " I didn't hurt Hazrat Imam Hussain (r.a) why is my father taking revenge from me ?"

Yep, when you set trends, there would be people who would try to get more sawaab by trying to exceed from others in the competition and get a high degree in Jannah.

I wish there is any source where it is mentioned that Hazrat Imam Hussain hit himself in sorrow after hearing the shahadat of Hazrat Ali (r.a) or Hazrat Hassan (r.a). The important thing to note is that those who were involved in shahadat of Hazrat Ali (r.a) and Hazrat Hassan (r.a) were also so called Muslims of that time. But that didn't encourage Hazrat Imam Hussain (r.a) to hit himself or mourn in a loud voice.

Let us follow Hazrat Imam Hussian's example in mouring shahadat of beloved people of Allah (swt)

The Prophet (s.a.w) said: "The one who is wailed for is tortured on account of it." Abu Musa is reported to have said: "I declare my disavowal of all that Allah's Messenger disavowed. The Messenger of Allah disavowed publicly a woman who mourns loudly.

May Allah (swt) forgive me and guide me towards the right path if I said anything wrong, but my limited knowledge and mind can only think sincerely up to this level. IF I am wrong may Allah open my mind and heart towards the ultimate truth.

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Love of the Ahlul Bayt (as) is a demand by Allah (swt) in Quran (42:23) hence its a duty to me. When Allah (swt) ordered Rasool Allah (saww) to bring his “sons” to the ground of Mubahila (3:61), it was Imam Hassan and Imam Hussain who came along Rasool Allah (saww).

I agree that some people go to extreme and do acts such as shedding blood etc. These people could use their blood for more useful purpose, e.g. donate blood or feed the poor etc.

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Then upon this ... I declare my strong love for the ahl-ul-bayt ... may Allah (SWT) accept it from me.

The blood donation is a very good idea, sadly, I don't I can do that as I am on medications.

Peace

...... One Ummah !!! .......]

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Re: What actually happened at Karbala

^Allah (swt) give you reward Insha Allah. And i pray that we are able to follow the teachings of the Prophet (saww) and his Ahlul Bayt (as). Proclaiming love is the first step; the real test is how well we actually follow and imporve on our good deeds.

May Allah (swt) show us all Haq from Batil.

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[quote]
After the atrocities that were commited with the Prophets' family at the desert in Karbala, there were TWO main groups of people:
[/quote]

wrong .... there were 4 groups of muslims since the time of murder of uthman till end of second civil war
1-pro-uthman ummayyad
2-pro-uthman but antiummayyad makkans
3-Pro-Ali
4-Khawarij

[quote]

1) Group that celebrated: Yazeed ibn Muawiya (had a charater with every habit that a good Muslim must never have), Marwan Ibn Hakam (his family was condemened and sent into exile from Mecca by the Prophet himself), Ibn Ziyad (son of a prostitute and killer of Ashaab), Omar Ibn Saad etc

2) Group that mourned: The nobile family of our Prophet (pbuh) including the noble wives like Umme Salma (sa), the pious Sahaba and the true lovers and followers of the Prophet of Islam.

Now its our own choice which group we would like to follow

[/quote]

u are fastfowarding to the 16th century .Many groups /sects of muslims have existed since then and 12er shias appeared only after 2nd century hijrah.Nor can 12ers alone claim to speak on the behalf of all imams of ahlulbayt.

btw why the political correctness why dont u mention the alleged murderer of Fatima in the first group ?

[quote]

"I m leaving among you something which is very important and should be followed, you will not go astray if you get hold of it after I am gone, one part of it being more important than the other: Allah's Book, which is a rope stretched from Heaven to Earth, and my close relatives, who belong to my household (Ahlul Bayt). These two will not separate from one another till they come down to the reservoir, so consider how you act regarding them after my departure." (Sahi Tirmidhi, Sahih Muslim)

This hadith is presented through 14 different chains in the books. 13 of them have "Quran & Ahlul Bayt" and not what you have in your signature. If you understand this single point then i guess you will not question the mourning of Imam Hussain (as).

[/quote]

no one doubts the jist of this .... i think u have the misconception that all ahle sunnah are nawasib or khawarij

I agree that there are many inconsistencies in the "official" beliefs of ahle sunnah but it wud be a gross exaggeration to say that criticism of enemies of Ali /his sons in history is strictly due to efforts of ithna asharis [infact most of their crimes are welldocumented by earlier non-12er historians].....books of all sects are full of evidences against them and most imams of ahlesunnah have criticised them in their works.
But explicit condemnation was prohibited because of the ruler's decree and meant that discussion of intra-sahaba conflicts was confined mainly to history/rijal books.
Also the hadith masters discouraged these debates as it gave their opponents more ammo to use against hadith narraters and target them.Thats why discussion of these events gradually lost popularity amongst sunni ulemas.In their eyes the preservation of hadith as a whole was more important than the explicit condemnation of a few individuals , and in their time that was not a unreasonable decision.

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I might also add that both 12er zakireen [to exaggerate the tragedy] and some ignorant sunnis esp those influenced by syrians like ibn taymiyyah who wanted to absolve the ummayyads of all crimes] malign the image of city of kufa wrt event of Karbala
blaming everything on the "treacherous kufans" .....this is a oversimplification and nothing more than chucking blame.Certain quotations of Hussain and Zainab are used out of context to justify this.Certainly both of them did not know the full situation in kufa at the time nor did they have crystal ball to see it ....this undoutbly contributed to their opinion.Only those who see them as half-God infallibles wud base their beliefs on these few comments.

Kufa was the second most important city in islam after medina in terms of the sahaba/tabaeen living there it has produced many great scholars

it was founded in time of Umar b khattab who called it head of islam
at a site selected by Salman and Hudhayfa
it had brilliant personalities living there
it was the center of several revolts against corrupt rulers
Great center of hadith masters

its true that many very corrupt and cruel tribesman had settled in kufa as well at various times some of those who intially were loyal to uthman , later gave their support to Ali when uthman fell out of favor and when the tide turned deserted to muawiyah.Several of them also backed musab b zubair and khawarij at later times.Their motivation ranged from greed to self-preservation.These were mainly ashraf or tribal chiefs whose loyalty was with whoever held power at the time ...akin to the situation in afghanistan in the 90s civil war.

However they do not in any way represent the whole population of kufa.Just like there might be a few thousand MQM thugs in karachi but they dont represent all of karchities just an example no offence intended to any ethnic group]

There are many other merits of city of kufa , I wish I could add "al-kufi" next to my name
one day inshallah i plan to visit this great city.

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You know in actualy there might be hundereds of group. But as per hadith of Rasool Allah (saww) there are, and there will always be only 2 main groups. Ahl e Haq, and Ahl e Batil (not Shia, Sunni or the other thousand that we have today). Rasool Allah said: "Haq is with Ali , Ali is with Haq". Yet people go out of their way to defend the personalities who came to fight Imam Ali (as). Call me too 'simple' if you wish but i believe in simplifying things. I believe truth is 'simple' and very apparent. Allah (swt) has seperated truth from falsehood (2:185). After the Prophet of Allah there is noone like Imam Ali (as). Quran is full of fazail of Imam Ali (as) and may be its my fault that i look towards Quran as the central benchmark of guidance.

And as for being PC, history is open for anybody to go and read who the killers of Hazrat Fatima (as) were. I do not wish to impose my views on anybody, neither i wish to hurt anybodys' feelings. And i do not recall saying anything against Sunnis. I grew up belonging to the Sunni sect and all my family is Sunni and i love them all alot.

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Re: What actually happened at Karbala

I love the family of the Prophet pbuh, and his companions r.a.

However sorry, I cannot take out one day to mourn their losses, as my prophet pbuh never instructed me to do so.

Everyday should be a reminder of our Prophet's seerah. Nothing should be commercialized into one day of worship.

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[QUOTE]
You know in actualy there might be hundereds of group. But as per hadith of Rasool Allah (saww) there are, and there will always be only 2 main groups.
[/QUOTE]

no there were no 100s of groups but the 4 main which i mentioned the fifth was probably neutrals

[QUOTE]
Ahl e Haq, and Ahl e Batil (not Shia, Sunni or the other thousand that we have today). Rasool Allah said: "Haq is with Ali , Ali is with Haq". Yet people go out of their way to defend the personalities who came to fight Imam Ali (as).
[/QUOTE]

This is endorsed by all major imams in Islam sunni or shia no difference on this issue ....except for fringe elements
the difference is to what extent shud we blame his opponents was it a honest mistake or calculating conspiracy or did this rebellion made them apsotates

[QUOTE]

Call me too 'simple' if you wish but i believe in simplifying things. I believe truth is 'simple' and very apparent. Allah (swt) has seperated truth from falsehood (2:185). After the Prophet of Allah there is noone like Imam Ali (as). Quran is full of fazail of Imam Ali (as) and may be its my fault that i look towards Quran as the central benchmark of guidance.

[/QUOTE]

You only believe in simplyfying whats convenient to you
when the sunnis in turn ask you questions about 12er history i have seen u guys come up with a thousand excuses as well not much different from the ones by which sunnis claim to defend ALL sahaba.

[QUOTE]
And as for being PC, history is open for anybody to go and read who the killers of Hazrat Fatima (as) were. I do not wish to impose my views on anybody, neither i wish to hurt anybodys' feelings. And i do not recall saying anything against Sunnis. I grew up belonging to the Sunni sect and all my family is Sunni and i love them all alot.
[/QUOTE]

I dont believe that sunni & shia are even different sects ....but we do have something in common i have also changed some of the beliefs that i grew up with

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Yes thats very importent and by doing so you probably are doing more justice to the cause of karbala than anything else

but I disagree that mourning someone is neccesarily a Bidah , how can the Prophet mourn for something that has not happened yet ? And do you seriously think Prophet wud fault you for shedding a few tears a year for a beloved grandson or a major companion ?
....problem is that 12er sect has made this into big bussiness and although i dont doubt the religious fervor /devotion of a great many of them.This culture of azadari is probably doing more harm to cause of Hussain b ALi than anything else.Its also become a very lucrative bussiness so attempts to curb it are met by angry accusations of being "enemies of AHlulbayt" this makes people all the more defensive.Obviously these people couldnt care less about Hussain b Ali's cause which was to put it simplyestablihment of a shariah state which has been abandoned after Hasan b Ali khateem-e-khulifa-e-Rashideen ] but they dont want to let go of a relic of the past which they have inherited from the court cultures of persia and awadh.The biggest evidence for this is that the very states where this culture of azadari originated were far from being islamic states but were ruled by kings who lived not very differently from the ummayyads & abbassids that they claim to despise so much.

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Re: What actually happened at Karbala

People,the reason for conducting majalis-e-aza is NOT just mourning for Imam Hussain (AS),the lecturers preach the teachings of the Prophet (saW),sahaba (ra) n ahlul bayt (as).the real picture of islam is portrayed n few lecturers discuss topics such as "tawheed,khatme nabuwat aur insan main ta'luq..."which r purely educating subjects.

yes there r some people amongst us who just emphasize on matam,crying,zanjeer (there r few ulamas who have given fatwa against zanjeer,qama etc as this was NOT practiced by Holy Prophet (saw) n is just wasting of blood n energy which can be used for productive work in the way of Allah) which was not the real reason for Imam's sacrifice.Imam sacrificed his while family for "la ilaha illallah,muhammadur rasool ullah"

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explain the bolded part plz if u cud. I am part of an org that has organizd quite a few progs so all nature and I seem to have missed out on sumthing.

btw if u want to talk abt commercialism then Hajj has turned into a business like no other. So has Eid, Eid ul Adha, Milad, Naats-nasheeds etc.

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Crescent, this happens mostly in Desi culture, unfortunately. Arab Shias are usually better.

I have actually been going to majalis lately despite the fact I have very little belief left in Islam generally. The maulana sahib there from Chicago is actually very good and very critical of Pakistani Shias and how with their culture, tabarrah, etc have driven Sunnis away.

It's just better hearing maulvis criticize their flocks instead criticizing other people outside the flock.

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Re: What actually happened at Karbala

:smack: What on earth!
How can you say the entire family was evil to begin with. Both Abu Sufyan and Hind accepted Islam and repented for their sins. If the Prophet welcomed them and did not consider them as evil enemies, then who are you to now judge them or judge their intentions?? Do you think Allah will ask you about what did Abu Sufyan do or what did Hind do or what did Muawiya do, or will He ask you about what you did? Why not focus on yourself and leave the others to Allah!!!

Plus it wasnt “Hazrat Abu Talib”, it was Hamza

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