In USA and other western countries, kids leave their parent’s home after they turn 18. That means a brand new potential buyer for almost every household good (TV, Microwave, computer, furniture, car, apartment) is out there. That is a huge support to the local economy which relies heavily on consumers. Not only the new buyers of new goods popping up almost everyday but because of the demand of those goods, new jobs in manufacturing, marketing and retailing industries have been created regularly.
In Pakistan and similar countries, people dont move out, in fact generations live in the same house. That means that the same car, same sofa, same TV can serve generations. Less consumers out there means slow economic growth.
Is that a fair analysis on my part? You think that our social setup maybe great for building family values but not helpful for the economical growth?
Re: Western social setup is good for local economy?
Kiya bat hai**, bat tu sach hai yeh khandani nizam woh hai ke aik kerta aur baqi khatey aur osey hi jis ka kha rahy hain kha kha ker ehsan kerty hain:D I mean Bhai hu tu Bap hu tu bas Allah mafi ghulam aulad ko apna jewan sathi bhi apni merzi se chunney ki ijazat nahi hoti. wahan behnon ki shadion per tu consumer a hi jatey hain konsa ghar hai jahan 8 nahi tu 3 behnain na hon:aq: Unhon ne tu move out hona hi hai na ke nahi:aq:
PS: Aur aisey ghraney jin k amain zikar ker rahi hon wahan Bhabian sara sara din gadhey ki trha kam kerti hain aur Nokrani ke paisey bhi bach aliey jaty hain. I know a family onhon ne nokrani ko Rani/mu boli behan baniya howa tha aur bhabi sar sara din kam kerti thi :Di**
Re: Western social setup is good for local economy?
well alternatively, because kids leave when they're 18 there is a huge economic problem of elderly/retiree care in the west, that is usually solved through taxation and borrowing and all that. much less expensive to have family care for the elderly than the state spending its resources on that.
Re: Western social setup is good for local economy?
18 is not ready to care of his/her parents anyways at that age. In fact most of the parents are not even retired when kid move out, so senior folks becoming a burden on economy is not the result of kids moving out
When the moved out, they took their burden off the parents. So parents should have enough time for some retirement savings
whether or not they utilize their time for gathering up retirement savings is not the issue. the problem exists, possibly one of the largest expenditures of modern states in the healthcare sector is taking care of the elderly. in america you have medicare etc (which as you know is going bankrupt), in the UK you have similar problems. Everywhere they are worried about the cost curve. And so you have the state investing in solutions such as robots/sensors that look after the elderly in their homes, alert medical folks when they fall down (because there have been cases when people remained unable to get up for days). This is all very expensive research, but its a drop in the bucket compared to the projections they see for elderly care in the near future.
there is therefore a significant economic cost in the fact that families do not stay in the same house for generations.
Re: Western social setup is good for local economy?
ok, heres the skoop from a western/gori whose parents were 1950s conservative republicans:
At age 18, you go to college. If you refuse college, you get a job. If you decide to live at home then you help either financially or with jobs around the house. You are now an adultand expected to act like one. You are welcome to remain at home but dont expect maid service, cooking, cleaning up after you, spending money without earning it.
Elders (parents) never expect or want their children to take care of them. They plan their retirements with 401k plans and social security. Most would never live with their children as you raise them to be independent and have their own happy lives.
In the recent tough economic times, more adult children are returning to live with elderly parents for sure. None of themreally like the situation but its necessary in many cases. In the west, independent living and independent thinking are a way of life. The houses are designed for single-family livving, the pace of life leaves little time for socializing and above all, independence is encouraged and cherished.
Is this a better way? Idont know...I tend to doubt it...but then again if I want my children to be successful in this crazy world then I gotta toe the party line so that they're prepared to compete and arefamiliar with the rules...
whether or not they utilize their time for gathering up retirement savings is not the issue. the problem exists, possibly one of the largest expenditures of modern states in the healthcare sector is taking care of the elderly. in america you have medicare etc (which as you know is going bankrupt), in the UK you have similar problems. Everywhere they are worried about the cost curve. And so you have the state investing in solutions such as robots/sensors that look after the elderly in their homes, alert medical folks when they fall down (because there have been cases when people remained unable to get up for days). This is all very expensive research, but its a drop in the bucket compared to the projections they see for elderly care in the near future.
there is therefore a significant economic cost in the fact that families do not stay in the same house for generations.
I agree with your analysis but I dont see that how 'our' social setup can help taking care of these issues. See, I am not mixing capitalism with social setup here. Most of things that you discussed are the result of the way health industry operates and has nothing to do with not having kids living with them. You still need a robot sensor when Kids go to job and grand kids are in school. Also, the way USA job market is, there is no gurantee that you will get a job in the same city where your parents live. Then what we gonna do? Drag the parents with us from city to city?
Exactly ...
it was precisely because the economy was so good and jobs were plentifull in the West that all the young graduates were in demand...
Now that they are not....
they moved back home!
Its good to know that the family is there when you need them but the independent lifestyle aspect is always a priority, just like MO3 mentioned.
The houses are designed for single-family livving, the pace of life leaves little time for socializing and above all, independence is encouraged and cherished.
han tum ne tu maslow’s hierarchy of needs shuruki thi na:snooty:
waisy bhi raiza Butt ke novels main aik khubsurat sa hero hota hai ju meri baton main kahin nazar nahi ata:p:
**
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Re: Western social setup is good for local economy?
Yar westeren culture main tu bacha paida hotey hi karobar shuru yani Baby sitting ke paisey do main job kerin ab hota hamrey han bhi yehi hai bas paisey bach jaty hain ke bachey dadi aur pophion ke saharey pal jatey hain:D
wahan 18 sal ka ho ker kiya 50 ka hu ker bhi ghar chorney ko jee nahi kerta yahan bachpan baby Sitter ki god min guzra hota hai tu 18 salka hu ker woh bhi perwa nahi kerty ke maa ya bap konsa muasir hain ya on ka alternate dadi nani jin ki perwa kerin:wink:
I agree with your analysis but I dont see that how 'our' social setup can help taking care of these issues. See, I am not mixing capitalism with social setup here. Most of things that you discussed are the result of the way health industry operates and has nothing to do with not having kids living with them. You still need a robot sensor when Kids go to job and grand kids are in school.
No no, these are not the result of the way the health industry operates. This isnt the case of any single country. Many countries in the modern world have this problem, you cant blame health industry everywhere.
You generally do not need robots and sensors in societies where elderly people live with their children, because they arent left alone long enough.
Something directly linked with dementia is social isolation. One of the things the state here pays for is community matrons, that go about to some 50-60 elderly people, asking them how they are. All of these are quite costly.
[quote]
Also, the way USA job market is, there is no gurantee that you will get a job in the same city where your parents live. Then what we gonna do? Drag the parents with us from city to city?
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Well Im not prescribing solutions. You started the thread off by describing an economic picture where families not living in the same home for generations boosted spending and spurred growth. Which is a fair point. All Im saying is that there is an economic cost to this behavior too.
Re: Western social setup is good for local economy?
It all depends what you consider good. Apparently it led to huge burden on economy, demand of new jobs, forcing people to retire early or getting laid off, since new fresh blood was ready to work at a lower cost and above all need of more collective resources (more equipments, Phone lines, housing needs, transport needs, sewage/waste burden, water and electricity need etc.)
Building a bigger house with more family members to live is cheaper than building multiple single family units of young children per family.
In USA and other western countries, kids leave their parent's home after they turn 18. That means a brand new potential buyer for almost every household good (TV, Microwave, computer, furniture, car, apartment) is out there. That is a huge support to the local economy which relies heavily on consumers. Not only the new buyers of new goods popping up almost everyday but because of the demand of those goods, new jobs in manufacturing, marketing and retailing industries have been created regularly.
In Pakistan and similar countries, people dont move out, in fact generations live in the same house. That means that the same car, same sofa, same TV can serve generations. Less consumers out there means slow economic growth.
Is that a fair analysis on my part? You think that our social setup maybe great for building family values but not helpful for the economical growth?
It killed the environment too :P
We are living in a time where soem natural resources are becoming scarce.
The funny thing is the West is now reverting to a more simpler life because they know life like this cant keep happening.
Re: Western social setup is good for local economy?
so with multi generational families, at some point they exceed the capacity anyways, and then the people spilling over would have to go get a place anyway. each has its pros and cons. The key is to try and figure out the best of each and strike a balance.
Re: Western social setup is good for local economy?
Yes, but the moving out/spilling over process is not as predictable. I am sure, in Karachi, you must have seen a single story house turning into a double or even triple story house as kids are growing and getting married. I am not sure what is happening nowadays in Pakistan but deaths and new additions in the family used to take care of the over-spilling situation over 30-40 years time span.