Western powers banning slavery lead to decline of muslim power?

across the border in east india ] there are slaves but of poor quality generally speaking.Maybe in punjab there are better as they are more sturdy ....so good for farm work, cheap labor but not much more although some wud like their women too.Feeding them will be a big problem and we definately have to force them to work as they are inherently lazy.

better slaves can be found across western border but they are muslims so cannot be enslaved.

jinnah worshipping by the religious lobby is the biggest contradiction in pakistan.Jinnah never wanted a theocratic state in pakistan.So I agree with u there.

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very sad to hear that u include people like auranzaib, nadir shah and muhammad b qasim with the ranks of sahaba and tabaeen.You need to take a closer look at how the pious caliphate became a kingship and all the badness that started with it.
To be honest it makes me think that in reality u are some islamophobe trying to malign our pious forefathers

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I only compared them in regards to the topic of slavery, nothing more. If you want to make a point please be specific, its hard to understand what you are talking about when you make generalizations.

Also, please try to keep this civil and avoid name calling.

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like I said slavery in times of Prophet was very different from the exploitative instituion that was perpetuated by the various dynasties in the name of islam.

your approach is "end justifies the means" that is not the islamic way of thinking.

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I disagree and would like to know why you think it was different. Please be as specific as you can be in this regard. Its easy to make a generalization, whats harder is to back it up.

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as most of the wars after pious caliphate were not legal religious wars.Waging religious war is a big responsibility how can the fasiq and fajir rulers who dont enforce islam in their own lands justify their fighting with the nonmuslims in the name of islam? first duty is to enforce rigorous shariah in ur own lands

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This is beyond ridiculous. How can one argue that every muslim ruler after the rightfully guided caliphs did not practice Islam. The only reason the first four caliphs are respected is because after these four, there is a division of opinion amongst the muslims as to what was the right course and the wrong course. Brother, I don't wish to judge your character, but using such vile terms to describe the muslim rulers of past is nothing short of inflammatory. I advise you to use gentler words of criticism if you have a bone to pick, and again, please be specific. You say these rulers did not enforce Islam amongst their own? Can you cite examples of such and such, not simple generalizing, as painting with such a large brush does not produce anything of value.

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no doubt but that will not be the ultimate solution.Owning slaves can also be a big boon for prostitution as for e.g I have enuf money to buy 20 slaves I can then 'rent" them to other clients and make huge profits

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This is illegal, anyone who has studied Islam can tell you this much. The only person who has sexual rights over a slave's body is the master, or the slaves husband if they are not seperated. This can never occur. The holy Koran clearly says that the master shouldn't force a slave into prostitution if she desires chastity.

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what makes u think there is no middle ground? some basic human values in all revolutions whether communist , fascist or religious are the same.....just because u oppose tyrants aristocrats dosent make u a french revolutionary.And by the same logic the french kingship shud have ideals compatible with islam as they were opposed to the revolutionaries and owned slaves.

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Again, if you believe there exists a middle ground between an Islamic state and one envisioned during the French revolution, or if a syncretic state can be produced that doesn't dilute both, or some other solution, please write about it. Be specific, right now you are making general statements. If what you have to say is amenable to my mind than you will have changed my mind. However, currently, what you are saying is akin to saying capitalism and communism can both be ideals that can form a contradiction-free state. In my mind this is an impossibility.

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first bring back people of the character of those who lived around the times of prophet otherwise all such experiments will cause more problems then it will solve.

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That is the aim of my writing. I tried to shock the muslims out of their comfort zone. I'm trying to make them realize that Islam is a complete way of life, seperate from the vision of the French revolution.

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slavery is not a 'islamic " practice its a social practice allowed under islam.
Offcourse we shud NOT accept dictation by other powers but reintroducing slavery in this day and age is not in our own best interest.We need to do a lot of self-improvement before we can get to this stage.But I agree in theory I am not against slavery.
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Slavery is an institution in Islam, and an Islamic practice. I'm not ashamed of my beliefs unlike many of the modern apologists. To argue other wise is preposterous. Again, do you concede the point that slavery was practiced by muslims since the time of prophet Muhammed(pbuh) up until the mid-1900's, and was only stopped because of the interference of Westerners?

Re: Western powers banning slavery lead to decline of muslim power?

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The only reason the first four caliphs are respected is because after these four, there is a division of opinion amongst the muslims as to what was the right course and the wrong course.

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I will answer this as I have already answered ur other questions

Not every ruler was bad but the vast majority were ....

2 specific examples 1- nadir shah who probably killed more muslims in his conquests than hindus destroyed muslim kingdoms
2- Auranzaib who waded in { muslim} blood to the throne then used rajputs hindus to subjugate muslims in deccan and NW provinces ...are these examples of islamic rulers , only reason muslims can kill other muslims is to put down a rebellion against a legitimately accepted ruler.Neither aurangzib nor nadir shah were those.
simply outlawing wine and music is not enough to establish a islamic state

What the rulers apart from pious caliphs did cannot be taken as relgiious laws as they are irrelevent from a juristic standpoint

thats the whole point , who will enforce the rules when the rulers themselves are not free of guilt there are a lot of things allowed in islam but they are abused as the enforcers themselves are coruupted.

This can only happen in a society that "enjoins good and forbids evil" in our present state e.g in pakistan that is impossible as govt policies override all other religious laws

ur point is well taken but i disagree with ur reactionary approach
slavery is not solely a islamic practice its allowed in islam.islam did not introduce slavery it allowed it to flourish with tighter restrictions.

ur second point seems to stem more from racism than anything else since u defend savages like the barbary pirates who were the oriental equivalents of the vikings.

Please read my posts carefully they are not apologetic at all nor do I shy away from defending slavery but I strongly disagree with the way u defend every bandit and thief who enslaved people muslims & nonmuslim] in the name of islam

briefly we shud not stop slavery just to make the west happy but at the same time we should not restart slavery unless we take concrete measures to ensure that this system is not abused within our lands


Classic post! The 3rd Reich would be proud.

Wait a minute... aren't you the poster who accused me of being racist ?

Re: Western powers banning slavery lead to decline of muslim power?

^ whats wrong with it ? afterall purely from a point of animal husbandry different ethnicities have different natural predispositions ...doesnt make one a superior human being afterall wasnt it ur british who introduced the concept of 'martial race" to indians

u are not only racist but also ignorant and proud of it, only such a person would classify all germans who fought with the noble intention of defending their country as "nazis"

Here is a little free education provided for you...

The definition of racism is:
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
You know, like believing certain races are lazy. Or that some people deserve slaves and others deserve to be enslaved.

And if that isn't the height of ignorance or arrogance, how about mulling over which women would Muslim men prefer as sex slaves or which race would be more costly to feed while they serve their antediluvian masters.

Re: Western powers banning slavery lead to decline of muslim power?

Mr. Study in Slave History,

did you also study the fact that our Rasool gave freedom to the slaves Hazrat Khadija gave Hazrat Muhammad Mustafa (saw) after they married?

Go and study Goethe, germany's great poet, philiosopher and thinker. Read what he writes about Muhammad (saw) and then come back and tell me what exactly you studied.

Hazrat Bilal (1st Muezzin) was a slave and bought by Hazrat Abu Bakr, who told him to buy Bilal free? Hazrat Muhammad (saw). He paid money for his freedom and you still say your studied slaves history, especially their history in Islam.

What do you know about Islam?


What in the heck does that have to do with anything whatsoever that I have posted here? Your examples of a few slaves being freed has nothing to do with anything posted here. Lots of European/Americans also freed slaves. So what?

You should gp to a doctor. You are very sick. I dont understand how can you roam around freely with such a sick mind. Whatever justification you put, be it Islam or non-Islam, its highly disgusting the way you put it.

And what the heck are you blaming our Prophet (saw) for, what he actually never did!?


Blame him for what? He bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves. I don't deny he treated slaves better than others or that he freed many and that he held some in very high esteem. But he practiced slavery and did not try to end it. Those are the facts as per Islamic history.

You have Muslims here saying slavery is the best thing since sliced bread. They are discussing which ones would make the best whores for Muslim men and which races make for lazy slaves and you have the nerve to question my posts? If anyone is defaming Islam and making it look backwards and sick, it's your slave-loving brohters, not me.

Re: Western powers banning slavery lead to decline of muslim power?

He never bought, sold or captured slaves. Yes, he may bought them, but he bought their freedom. You have no knowledge of Islam. The TRUTH was, Hazrat Muhammad (saw) was such a humble and noble person that the slaves didn't want to leave him. Look how the western world turned and twisted the story, just to put Islam in a bad light.

I don't know if it was Bilal, but there was one slave who didn't want to leave our Prophet (saw). The slaves father and brother came to pick him, but he refused to go back and called our Prophet (saw) his father. He was begging to stay with him. He said, this man freed me and treated me better than mother, how can I leave him!?

Both, father and son had to accept his decision and left him there.

Plus, Das Reich is on crack anyway...not a personal attack, only the truth.

The people you're talking about aren't muslims. They are fellows of Dajjal.

I am no mufti, but I know enough about Islam to know of what I speak here. I know Muhammad was humble and noble. I know he advocated the freeing of slaves. I know he brought humanity to slavery that did not exist before him.

You should be concerned with those who advocate crack ideas in the name of Islam, and not me. They are turning and twisint the story, putting Islam in a bad light, not me.

And you are believing these stories and open threads like that!? WOW
You make lotta sense. I'm not a mufti, but I know a lot about Islam to tell you that these crack stories aren't true.

In the age of materialism no one is interested to hear the truth brother/sister. We can do whatever we want, as long as we are ruled by the materialism, our hands will stay tied. We will make the predictions come true.

Re: Western powers banning slavery lead to decline of muslim power?

The is one of the worsest thread I have read so far in gupshup. " Western powers banning slavery lead to decline of muslim power". HOw is muslim power based on Slavery? Is this what Islam really stands for? rather then being a tiny part of it. If so, some official backing be great rather then someone thoughts.

Seminole: Once again, can you please back your statements up please. This thread seems to be straying away from its topic particuarly if you could shed some light on Muhammad (PDUH) selling slaves and how be brought humanity to slavery. Thanks in advance.

Re: Western powers banning slavery lead to decline of muslim power?

political correctness of most muslims sickens me .....may Allah guide you
who try to twist the example of the Prophet to meet the needs of their times in the name of "ijtehad"

indians are lazier than afghans when it comes to physical work thats not a racist statement ....come to karachi and u will see how many muslims of indian descent and i am one of them ] are in physical labor jobs, on the flip side indians may be better than afghans for tasks requiring more education as its prevelant amongst them but for all practical purposes that will be useless to a islamic state as they cannot employ nonmulisms to high posts. Racism would be if I claim that because of having certain attributes better than others , is superior to other races.This I dont do.

...on the other hand your lumping togather all german soldiers who fought in WW 2 in the same category as nazi war criminals is a highly offensive and racist statement.It shows that u care little to investigate the true cause of this conflict but belive in generalizations and collective punishment.You are essentially saying just because they were germans they are evil.

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Or that some people deserve slaves and others deserve to be enslaved.
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as muslims we cannot enslave muslims its a religious rule

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And if that isn't the height of ignorance or arrogance, how about mulling over which women would Muslim men prefer as sex slaves or which race would be more costly to feed while they serve their antediluvian masters

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thats not a religious matter but a economic one obviously no one would buy a slave which he / she does not like

Re: Western powers banning slavery lead to decline of muslim power?

Das Reich,

what are you trying to say?