Re: Western powers banning slavery lead to decline of muslim power?
^ This coming from someone who admires nazis and who advocates slavery, concubines, unequal rights for non Muslims and a fascist Islamic state. How rich. How ironic. How ignorant.
Re: Western powers banning slavery lead to decline of muslim power?
Slavery was NOT the creation or work of Islam. Neither did Islam depend on it to attain its supreme outreach that extended beyond Arabia. Islam emphasized the need for equal treatment for those who were already slaves, and even then stressed to free them.
Slavery was used as a vital tool by Christians of Europe, later Americans for extensive labor, cruel treatment, and often rape of the female slaves by their white master. While if an African slave was found to have had any relationship with the white woman, he would be punished severely.
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Re: Western powers banning slavery lead to decline of muslim power?
^ forgive me but ur arguments are polemical , neither islam nor christianity endorse exploitation of people ...nor is slavery a white vs black thing
there were white slaves held by white men and black slaves by black masters.
if american christians are guilty of exploiting slavery so are the so-called muslim rulers of past and present.
Just because seminole is a bigoted racist teenager does not mean we stoop to his level.
Re: Western powers banning slavery lead to decline of muslim power?
Syed sahab where would you get your slaves from , US, UK, Russia, India , Israel ?
Slavery was NOT the creation or work of Islam. Neither did Islam depend on it to attain its supreme outreach that extended beyond Arabia. Islam emphasized the need for equal treatment for those who were already slaves, and even then stressed to free them.
Slavery was used as a vital tool by Christians of Europe, later Americans for extensive labor, cruel treatment, and often rape of the female slaves by their white master. While if an African slave was found to have had any relationship with the white woman, he would be punished severely.
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That's a might high horse you are sitting on. Particularly since Islam practiced slavery centuries longer than Europeans, allows for slavery in its texts, its prohpet owned and sold slaves, slavery continues in Muslim countries to this day and you have idiots lilke the author of this op-ed and its supporters who call for a return to slavery.
and only saudis do that???
not pakistanis do that??
not white americans and brits look down on coloured or black maids in their houses??
it only happens in saudi arabia right???
nobody else looks down on their maids and all, right???
aap ke uche khayaalaat 
That's a might high horse you are sitting on. Particularly since Islam practiced slavery centuries longer than Europeans, allows for slavery in its texts, its prohpet owned and sold slaves, slavery continues in Muslim countries to this day and you have idiots lilke the author of this op-ed and its supporters who call for a return to slavery.
oh wow!!
and u read all the books bout muslims making other ppl slaves but u never read anything bout the way muslims treated their slaves?? or have u??
if u had then u wudnt be saying that
bilal RA shud be a perfect example of a black slave in a muslim society go check that b4 writing any BS here thank u
oh wow!!
and u read all the books bout muslims making other ppl slaves but u never read anything bout the way muslims treated their slaves?? or have u??
if u had then u wudnt be saying that
bilal RA shud be a perfect example of a black slave in a muslim society go check that b4 writing any BS here thank u
I did not say that Islamic doesn't practice a more 'humane' version of slavery. But that doesn't change these facts (i.e. not BS):
- Islam practiced slavery centuries longer than European
- Islam allows for slavery in its texts
- its prohpet owned and sold slaves
- slavery continues in some Muslim countries to this day
- you have idiots lilke the author of this op-ed and its supporters who call for a return to slavery.
So while a more humane practice of slavery is perhaps a 'braggable' point. It is still slavery. It's like saying it's more humane to murder someone in a quick, painless way rather than in a slow and painful manner. Murder is wrong and so is slavery, no matter what positive spin you want to put on it.
u need to learn more bout slavery in islam plz do it b4 u post another post and see how painful and slow death it actually is
and islam encouraged freeing slaves more than buyign and selling slaves plz go check that too
I did not say that Islamic doesn't practice a more 'humane' version of slavery. But that doesn't change these facts (i.e. not BS): [ul] [li]Islam practiced slavery centuries longer than European [/li][li]Islam allows for slavery in its texts [/li][li]its prohpet owned and sold slaves [/li][li]slavery continues in some Muslim countries to this day [/li][li]you have idiots lilke the author of this op-ed and its supporters who call for a return to slavery. [/li][/ul]So while a more humane practice of slavery is perhaps a 'braggable' point. It is still slavery. It's like saying it's more humane to murder someone in a quick, painless way rather than in a slow and painful manner. Murder is wrong and so is slavery, no matter what positive spin you want to put on it.
[li] And it was practiced centuries londer then Islam, infact before Christianity began. We all know how slaves were treated during the Crusade.
[/li][li] Yes it did, but with time and know they were not treated as slaves. GIve me one verse or fact that they were mistreated while under a mulim master.
[/li][li] Again my last point answers this. why do you think most of them converted and became great muslim leaders afterwards? also prophet selling them, please provide where you based that from (for my knowledge thanks).
[/li][li] Which country? and when?
[/li][*] Totally agree.
[/LIST]So while a more humane practice of slavery is perhaps a 'braggable' point. It is still slavery. It's like saying it's more humane to murder someone in a quick, painless way rather than in a slow and painful manner. Murder is wrong and so is slavery, no matter what positive spin you want to put on it.
I agree but insaying that - poverty exists in the world now and weather we like it or not human are dying all of minors that we take for granted such as scraps of food/water due to unavailability. If they were enslaved to provide them with a better life style but not on the condition of a prisoner rather a cheap labourer. Then I really dont see anything wrong with it.
I have studied slavery, its history and its history within Islam, thank you very much. Slavery is still wrong, no matter how beautiful Islam or you try to make it. Humans should not be allowed to own other humans.
Re: Western powers banning slavery lead to decline of muslim power?
u dont get it do u???
i think flywinki said it it was for providing ppl with better lifestyle who were living in a poor condition it u wanna check that too
No, YOU don’t get it. Owning humans is WRONG. If you want to provide people with a better living condition in a benevolent way, give to charity, adopt an orphan, initiate social programs, take in a homeless person, work at a soup kitchen, give away money, etc, etc. You might want to check out the plethora of ways to improve living conditions before you advocate owning another human being. 
Re: Western powers banning slavery lead to decline of muslim power?
i think most of the time slaves were freed so now u can breathe
By enslaving someone you dont stop him from breathing, for what he believes in etccc…the was the west portarys Slaves in not the same as Islam does.
Agree with the fact that charity is the best but when your entire days earnings with 2 pieces of bread and maybe 5 pieces of dates then what were your options.
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salam alaikum
Although it has its merits but it cannot be introduced the same way as the barbary corsairs practised it ..i say it openly these "muslim" pirates were simply brutes and savages who waged no holy war enslaved muslims and non-muslims alike their only interest was to pillage and profit from unprotected communities and had no interests of faith in mind.The western navies actually did a good thing by destroying them although they had their own ulterior motives behind it]
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I would disagree, in my mind the Barbary corsairs were continuing the practice set down from the times of the prophet Muhammed(pbuh) to Yaqub Saffari the conqueror of Afghanistan, to Ghori and Ghazni, to Qasim, to Nadir Shah, to Aurangzeb and to what is happening today in Sudan. When Qasim invaded Sindh, among the booty he sent back were Sindhi women. Infact, it is thought that the leader of the Zanj rebellion had a Sindhi grandmother. But thats an aside, what I would like to point out is that Islam had an unbroken record from the time of prophet Muhammed(pbuh) till around the mid-1900's, depending on the geographical area, of practicing slavery. It wasn't until the British sought to ban slavery that its practice was stopped in much of the muslim world, although the practice still continues in many pockets such as Sudan.
Would you concede the above point?
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There was big difference in slavery in times of prophet and the slavery in muslim lands in 18-19 century.
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How so brother? Were not these slaves gained in the same way i.e. through warfare? I'd be interested to know how you support the above contention.
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concubinage is also for married people as well for unmarried but i dont think it will eliminate all the social ills that u speak of e.g does Mutah allowed in iran elimate prostitution there ? or misyar in arabia ] Free love in western countries does not eliminate porn or prostitution.
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Mutah and misyar marriages are radically different from concubinage. Again, if given the opportunity to capture or buy concubines, muslim men would more likely use this avenue to relieve their desires in a healthy and Islamic way than resort to prostitutes or pornography.
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offcourse we dont support upstarts like the robespierre but that does not mean we adopt every despotic, imperialistic and autocratic instituion that french revolution opposed.
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Ofcourse, I'm not on a witch hunt here to remove all foreign influences, but I don't know how one can reconcile Muhammed(pbuh) and Montesquieu. It is akin to reconciling communism and capitalism. Islam is a different narrative to the one born in the French revolution, and has many aspects of it that are entirely opposed to it. There is no middle ground. Trying to bridge this gap will only cause problems such as those faced by the Afghan King Amanullah.
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Zanj rebellion had other causes too but discrimination against nonarab muslim slaves was a big one.Ruling elite of Arab muslims had become corrupt and decadent like the french kings that triggered a variety of revolts from the pious and the not so pious poor. There is no way to eliminate this problem unless we create men like the characters who existed around the time of the Prophet.Who will not abuse slavery, the present state of muslims they will abuse any system no matter how innocuous it may seem
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Yes, but like I said earlier, these problems can easily be avoided. In honesty, this is a weak argument to not bring back slavery.
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lastly the decline of "muslim" power happened the day they changed the sunnah of the Prophet and his pious successors all the glit and glory that u see after that is the glory of arab/turk/persian nationalism thats not islamic glory.
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Thats why we must reinstate islamic practices such as slavery and try to remove foreign influences that are against Islam like secularism.
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could not agree more ! but for that u have to abandon this dream of a pakistan as envisioned by Jinnah & Iqbal for that we need a genuine islamic state
secondly whats the point of doing it simply for slavery as only 3% population is nonmuslim and even they will not provide good quality slaves and secondly u cannot enslave them at will as u have to provide them dhimmi status of protected minorities unless u have subjugated them in war
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One can easily argue that Jinnah's understanding of both Secularism and Islam were far from being strong. Not to disparage the man, as his role in the creation of Pakistan was nothing short of great, but when one reads his thoughts on Islam and Secularism, one gets the idea he doesn't really know what hes talking about. You can see this clearly if you find an interview he had with Margaret Bourke. Again, no man is perfect, without vices, so I'm not putting him down, but any intelligent person can see the inherent contradictions in some of his views.
Also, to your second point, right across the eastern border there is an amply supply of would be slaves that can be captured in war.
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Islam did not start slavery, it was already being practiced , Islam emphasized freeing slaves .
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Mentioning that Islam didn't start slavery is irrelevant. What is relevant is that slavery wasn't stopped in the Islamic world until the rise of western powers. One just has to read about the experience of Samuel Adjai Crowther and realize the interference the British played.
Islam emphasized freeing slaves you as a master believed had any good in them, i.e. converted to Islam.
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Islam at least in Quran does not order the Muslims to go and start making people slaves on the contrary Quran has prescribed freeing slaves as penalty for many sins. I agree there is not a direct order for abolishment of slavery but these verses which prescribe this penalty indirectly abolish slavery.
Again based on many ahadees people try to justify keeping slaves.
Someone might quote verses from Quran in which it is allowed to have sexual relation with slave girls , that permission is for those who still had some slave girls in their possession. Quran did not permit or order the Muslims to go and take women in captivity so that they could satisfy their sexual urges.
This is how I see it , many will not see it that way and will differ with me , so be it.
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Islam permits you to capture men and women in war and keep them as slaves. Anything else is revisionism or apologetics. Why you promote this deceptive narrative is unbeknownst to me. It is entirely wrong and I would question your understanding of Islam and its history.
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I would disagree, in my mind the Barbary corsairs were continuing the practice set down from the times of the prophet Muhammed(pbuh) to Yaqub Saffari the conqueror of Afghanistan, to Ghori and Ghazni, to Qasim, to Nadir Shah, to Aurangzeb and to what is happening today in Sudan. When Qasim invaded Sindh, among the booty he sent back were Sindhi women.
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very sad to hear that u include people like auranzaib, nadir shah and muhammad b qasim with the ranks of sahaba and tabaeen.You need to take a closer look at how the pious caliphate became a kingship and all the badness that started with it.
To be honest it makes me think that in reality u are some islamophobe trying to malign our pious forefathers
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Infact, it is thought that the leader of the Zanj rebellion had a Sindhi grandmother. But thats an aside, what I would like to point out is that Islam had an unbroken record from the time of prophet Muhammed(pbuh) till around the mid-1900's, depending on the geographical area, of practicing slavery. It wasn't until the British sought to ban slavery that its practice was stopped in much of the muslim world, although the practice still continues in many pockets such as Sudan.
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like I said slavery in times of Prophet was very different from the exploitative instituion that was perpetuated by the various dynasties in the name of islam.
your approach is "end justifies the means" that is not the islamic way of thinking.
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How so brother? Were not these slaves gained in the same way i.e. through warfare? I'd be interested to know how you support the above contention
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as most of the wars after pious caliphate were not legal religious wars.Waging religious war is a big responsibility how can the fasiq and fajir rulers who dont enforce islam in their own lands justify their fighting with the nonmuslims in the name of islam? first duty is to enforce rigorous shariah in ur own lands
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Mutah and misyar marriages are radically different from concubinage. Again, if given the opportunity to capture or buy concubines, muslim men would more likely use this avenue to relieve their desires in a healthy and Islamic way than resort to prostitutes or pornography.
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no doubt but that will not be the ultimate solution.Owning slaves can also be a big boon for prostitution as for e.g I have enuf money to buy 20 slaves I can then 'rent" them to other clients and make huge profits
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Ofcourse, I'm not on a witch hunt here to remove all foreign influences, but I don't know how one can reconcile Muhammed(pbuh) and Montesquieu. It is akin to reconciling communism and capitalism. Islam is a different narrative to the one born in the French revolution, and has many aspects of it that are entirely opposed to it. There is no middle ground. Trying to bridge this gap will only cause problems such as those faced by the Afghan King Amanullah.
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what makes u think there is no middle ground? some basic human values in all revolutions whether communist , fascist or religious are the same.....just because u oppose tyrants aristocrats dosent make u a french revolutionary.And by the same logic the french kingship shud have ideals compatible with islam as they were opposed to the revolutionaries and owned slaves.
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Yes, but like I said earlier, these problems can easily be avoided. In honesty, this is a weak argument to not bring back slavery
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first bring back people of the character of those who lived around the times of prophet otherwise all such experiments will cause more problems then it will solve.
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Thats why we must reinstate islamic practices such as slavery and try to remove foreign influences that are against Islam like secularism.
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slavery is not a 'islamic " practice its a social practice allowed under islam.
Offcourse we shud NOT accept dictation by other powers but reintroducing slavery in this day and age is not in our own best interest.We need to do a lot of self-improvement before we can get to this stage.But I agree in theory I am not against slavery.