were our poets ...homosexual?

Read this shair of Mir Taqi Mir…

Mir kya sadaa hain ke beemar hoey jis ke sabab;
Usee attar ke londe se dawa lete hain … (correct me, I think I am not writing this shair right)

and for Ghalib - honestly, no one could possibly have such a violent and strong female mehboob.

dhool dhappa oos sarapa naaz ka shewa nahi
ham hi kar bethay thay Ghalib paish dasti aek din

&

Nazar lage na kahin uske dast-o-baazu ko
ye log kyon mere zakhm-e-jigar ko dekhte hain* …(Only Karachi police can inflict such internal injuries)*.

Re: were our poets ...homosexual?

If they were human, they can be homo too, imo.

Re: were our poets ...homosexual?

But was it ok to express your homosexualty through Poetry? Even in this age, its consider a taboo, except for some very modern societies, and I am referring to poets of about 200 years ago

Re: were our poets …homosexual?

:hehe: Good point… Also add this one by Hafiz in this list:

Gar aan turk sheerazi be-dast aarad dil-e-maara
ba khaal hindosh bakhsham samarqand o bukhara ra [Hafiz]

Translation: If that Turk lad listens to my heart’s cry, I can forsake the cities of Samarqand and Bukhara against the black mole on his face.

Hafiz was called by Taimur when he conquered Iran. Taimur enquired about this fazool kharchi (extravegance) from Hafiz that the you forsake the cities just for the mole of your lover, that I conquered after so much hassle. Hafiz got his life saved by giving diplomatic answer that ‘aisee firaakh dilli ki wajjah se hii tau main aaj gharib hoon!’.

Had Taimur known that his lover was a lad, he would have not spared Hafiz’s life, as the first man killed by Taimur was a homosexual, who was in love with none other than Taimur himself.

PS: Kahin Kabootar bazi se ye wali bazi to yaad nahin aai :smiley:

Re: were our poets ...homosexual?

Nahi Kabootar Bazi se yeah yaad nahi aa'yee .. but good point, I am assuming that word bazi means URaana, ya Urnaa .. as in Kabootar Baaz, Patang Baaz, Khalaa Baaz etc.

How did the word Baaz/Baazi come in the context of this act?

Re: were our poets ...homosexual?

I think Bazi means "qaboo main karna' i.e. controlling someone / something.. Kabootar baz is one who can control Kabootar.. and so on & on.

Re: were our poets …homosexual?

:hayaa:

In Urdu ghazal, the gender of the beloved is often not clear. However, there are hundreds of couplets in divans of the classical poets where the lover is clearly a male or a boy.

The great poet Khwaja Haider Ali Aatish wrote:

Zuleikha ko dikhaaye aasmaaN tasviir Yusuf kii
Ye dil diivana hai jiskaa pari-paikar hai voh laRkaa

Mir Soz said:

Hai chaal qayaamat, hai husn ya sharaara
**chaltaa **hai kis adaa se Tuk, dekho Khudara

:eek:

Re: were our poets ...homosexual?

Qaboo main kerna ..

that explains everything now :D

Re: were our poets …homosexual?

chalo jee, we nailed down (no pun intended) 5 poets in 5 posts.

Re: were our poets …homosexual?

:fatee: There was one more in Farsi & Other shairs by Mir Taqi Mir, which are na qabil isha’at na qabil e sama’at. As per Khushwant Singh’s Delhi Mir Taqi Mir’s paternal uncle was also affected by this trend and was died when he he saw a chikna chamela :smiley:

Re: were our poets ...homosexual?

SO why do you think it was like that? I think that it could be because poetry instigate your Aashiq Mizaji and if you dont have a female available (that they did not), you would lean towards homosexuality

Re: were our poets …homosexual?

:eek: Muqawee’s one definitely shows that this poet was…

TLK, pls. translate the ones you wrote into english!!

Do you think it might have been because they were not allowed to talk about women openly…

Re: were our poets ...homosexual?

No, I think they were not allowed to talk "to" women openly.

Muqawwee is a good translator than I am :D, but first translation is

Mir is such a simpleton. He is buying medicine from the same chemist’s boy who caused the illness in the first place

Re: were our poets ...homosexual?

Can't say about any specific individual/poet if they were homosexuals or not because I do not personally know any :D but just like every language has its tone in literature, urdu has one too.

This was explained to us (the class) back in Pakistan by our Urdu teacher in 9/10th grade, I think. This style of using masculine form for "Mehboob" is "asloob" of urdu poetry. Mehboob is always refered to as male when writing poetry in urdu. Likewise, certain words are absolute no-no such as you will always use Tujhey instead of Tumhey. Tu is more used than Tum but Tum is also used occassionally.

So, attar ka londa (pharmacist/chemist's son) means nothing. A female can also be pharmacist, no? ;-)

Re: were our poets …homosexual?

now that made me giggle :cb:

and to think men blamed women for the all the problems in the world :snooty:

Re: were our poets ...homosexual?

I think probably that was an acceptable norm during that period, where the contact between males and females was not that easy. The second reason might be that poetry was in transformation period from expressing love through Moth & Candle (Shama o Parwana) to human lovers and the poets found it easy to present their lover from the same sex instead of doing badnami of Parda nasheen bibiyan. :)

Re: were our poets ...homosexual?

Mir is saying that he is buying medicine from the parent of same boy who caused the illness. :D Parent could be female, but londaa cannot be .

Re: were our poets …homosexual?

Oh no, Jinx is right. He is buying medicine from the boy of same attar who cause the illness,

so Mir ko bachchon wali se pyaar thaa? :hmmm:

Re: were our poets ...homosexual?

you make sense!!!

Re: were our poets …homosexual?

During Mir’s time there was a tradition in Nawabs to keep a Tawa’if on Wazeefa, but In Mir’s case he was on wafeeza of a married Nawab zadi. :smiley: