Weird

[Southie]

Re: Weird

@psyah

Southie … The fire starter is to be condemned … Try telling fire to stop burning …

The fact that in your world words start a fire shows why there is the impression that moderates need to speak up against violence. That is, condemn it unconditionally

[Ethan_Hunt]

Re: Weird

so we’re question people’s faith now? amazing.

[psyah]

Re: Weird

@Southie

So those who use words to insult a religion are the evildoers who should be condemned. But those who blow up buildings and people in retaliation should not be condemned because they were instigated.

Nice.

Yes

[psyah]

Re: Weird

@Southie

That was joke in response to yours in that post.

Haha

[psyah]

Re: Weird

@Southie

The fact that in your world words start a fire shows why there is the impression that moderates need to speak up against violence. That is, condemn it unconditionally

I condemn the fire starters … You cannot reason with people who are made angry, there is a better chance of showing up the fire starters to both prevent the hate … Because insult is the fruit of hate … And prevent the violence … There would be no need to stop violence that has not been instigated.

The purpose of hate and insult is to injure people …

[Southie]

Re: Weird

@psyah

I condemn the fire starters … You cannot reason with people who are made angry, there is a better chance of showing up the fire starters to both prevent the hate … Because insult is the fruit of hate … And prevent the violence … There would be no need to stop violence that has not been instigated.

The purpose of hate and insult is to injure people …

The 2nd last word is loaded with irony.

[Southie]

Re: Weird

@Ethan_Hunt

so we’re question people’s faith now? amazing.

We are questioning the faith of people who resort to violence in response to insulting words. Yes.

And also those who refuse to condemn such viokence..yes.

[psyah]

Re: Weird

@Southie

The 2nd last word is loaded with irony.

Only for those who fail to recognise that injuries other than physical ones are real too.

Coming back to your earlier question … whether I would condemn violent reaction … No, I would console the inflicted and try to cool their rage and try to make them see sense … I would not try to condemn a raging person, but I would remind them of a better way of being and give them a shoulder to ease their pain. The pain that the insulters have given him.

[psyah]

Re: Weird

@Southie

We are questioning the faith of people who resort to violence in response to insulting words. Yes.

And also those who refuse to condemn such viokence..yes.

The people who become violent in reaction did not “resort” to violence - it was not chosen so much as it was brought out of them due to their strong protectiveness of their faith … They are strong in their faith but their wisdom to control their reaction is not strong enough.

Those like me who do not condemn violent reaction - know what things are futile and nonsensical … we would calm people down who have been wronged we would not condemn them and further enrage them … that would be stupid.

[Reha]

Re: Weird

@psyah

I should however make a very clear statement though … You are not right that Muslims should not defend Islam … Defending Islam is what was done on Badr, Uhad, etc and defending Islam is done through preservation of Hadith and defending Islam is done through Sunnah and defending Islam is done through Qur’an memorisation. Defending Islam is not to welcome criticism of it or be proud of not being insulted when insulters insult it … What sort of Muslims are we if we don’t get insulted when they insult Islam? We should be insulted … Deeply … But we should try to react in wise ways. And for the sake of the whole ummah we should not welcome people to insult our faith system. That attitude was never part of the Sunnah.

*There was a lady who threw garbage in the path of the prophet on a daily basis. One day, she didn‘t do it. The prophet went to inquire about her health, because he thought she might be sick. This lady ended up converting to Islam. So, that‘s how you respond to people who attack you, with forgiveness and with kindness.

*Respond to this…because what you’re talking about is a physical attack. I don’t think I’ve ever implied that people should not defend themselves.

What I want to know from the so called religious ones is when exactly will it dawn on them that Muslims don’t want or need their defense? I don’t want some guy who’s version of Islam is a brawl in the name of religion defending my faith…no way. I want that man arrested and thrown in jail for making us look like fools.

Questioning you is not attacking you. Please don’t do the typical “shush lets not talk about issues because it hurts my feelings”.

@Ethan_Hunt

so we’re question people’s faith now? amazing.

Tum karo to sahi, hum karein to ghalat? Really?

[Ethan_Hunt]

Re: Weird

@Reha

*There was a lady who threw garbage in the path of the prophet on a daily basis. One day, she didn‘t do it. The prophet went to inquire about her health, because he thought she might be sick. This lady ended up converting to Islam. So, that‘s how you respond to people who attack you, with forgiveness and with kindness.

*Respond to this…because what you’re talking about is a physical attack. I don’t think I’ve ever implied that people should not defend themselves.

What I want to know from the so called religious ones is when exactly will it dawn on them that Muslims don’t want or need their defense? I don’t want some guy who’s version of Islam is a brawl in the name of religion defending my faith…no way. I want that man arrested and thrown in jail for making us look like fools.

Questioning you is not attacking you. Please don’t do the typical “shush lets not talk about issues because it hurts my feelings”.

Tum karo to sahi, hum karein to ghalat? Really?

Oh did I?
Mind telling me where. Can’t seem to remember it.

[Reha]

Re: Weird

@Ethan_Hunt

nice generalisations. I’m surprised you know what jumma even is.

'memba now? Questioning my faith n all…

@Ethan_Hunt

Oh did I?
Mind telling me where. Can’t seem to remember it.

Ji ji…I am sure you don’t. Vohi to…tum karo to sahi hum karein to ghalat.

The only reason I went to find that is because I am bored and waiting for my dinner guests to arrive. Next time, do it yourself.

[Southie]

Re: Weird

@psyah

The people who become violent in reaction did not “resort” to violence - it was not chosen so much as it was brought out of them due to their strong protectiveness of their faith … They are strong in their faith but their wisdom to control their reaction is not strong enough.

Those like me who do not condemn violent reaction - know what things are futile and nonsensical … we would calm people down who have been wronged we would not condemn them and further enrage them … that would be stupid.

What good is being strong in a faith if that leads you to VIOLENCE in response to WORDS! It is far better to be an athiest than cling to faith.

Coddling VIOLENT followers of faith because condemning them would enrage them is RIDICULOUS logic. Act that deserve condemning ought to be condemned.

The people who have been wronged are the VICTIMS of their violence.

Talk about ash backward priorities.

Out of this thread. Views have been exchanged

[psyah]

Re: Weird

@Southie

What good is being strong in a faith if that leads you to VIOLENCE in response to WORDS! It is far better to be an athiest than cling to faith.

Coddling VIOLENT followers of faith because condemning them would enrage them is RIDICULOUS logic. Act that deserve condemning ought to be condemned.

The people who have been wronged are the VICTIMS of their violence.

Talk about ash backward priorities.

Out of this thread. Views have been exchanged

Southie … I disagree … you can’t simply reason with an angry soul … We can teach them how to better absorb insults, before they get angry … Yes, we can teach them how to be better … Condemning them blames them when all we need to do is know where the blame should go and merely stop any violence … For me starting a fight with insults deserves condemnation and the violence will not manifest.

And there is a difference in coddling violent followers from consoling normal followers who are driven to a violent state. Consoling them will help remove their violent state, whereas coddling violent followers means nothing is being done to prevent their tendency to manifest … I am not saying that … We should prevent their violence from manifesting, by talking sense to them. Condemnation is done on the insulters.

[psyah]

Re: Weird

@Reha

*There was a lady who threw garbage in the path of the prophet on a daily basis. One day, she didn‘t do it. The prophet went to inquire about her health, because he thought she might be sick. This lady ended up converting to Islam. So, that‘s how you respond to people who attack you, with forgiveness and with kindness.

*Respond to this…because what you’re talking about is a physical attack. I don’t think I’ve ever implied that people should not defend themselves.

What I want to know from the so called religious ones is when exactly will it dawn on them that Muslims don’t want or need their defense? I don’t want some guy who’s version of Islam is a brawl in the name of religion defending my faith…no way. I want that man arrested and thrown in jail for making us look like fools.

Questioning you is not attacking you. Please don’t do the typical “shush lets not talk about issues because it hurts my feelings”.

Tum karo to sahi, hum karein to ghalat? Really?

Sister Reha

Would you not condemn the lady for throwing garbage over RasoolAllah (SAW)?
The reaction of RasoolAllah (SAW) was a sublime action … He was rahmatul’alameen. Mercy to the Worlds. That account demonstrates his rank and example. We should indeed try to emulate it. However, Islam allows other reactions albeit discourages them. They are not the highest position to take.

[Southie]

Re: Weird

Throwing garbage at someone - invading their space physically. Warrants a defense.
Using insulting words - warrants a defense - through words.

Period. No ifs ands or butts

[Reha]

Re: Weird

@psyah

Sister Reha

Would you not condemn the lady for throwing garbage over RasoolAllah (SAW)?
The reaction of RasoolAllah (SAW) was a sublime action … He was rahmatul’alameen. Mercy to the Worlds. That account demonstrates his rank and example. We should indeed try to emulate it. However, Islam allows other reactions albeit discourages them. They are not the highest position to take.

Did the Prophet (saw) condemn this woman for insulting the messenger of Allah swt? Did he??? Answer that.

You’re doing it again. Basically saying that (nauzubillah) the Prophet’s (saw) reactions and examples are good enough to talk about but not emulate?

That account is a demonstration of what he expects his Ummah to do. It does not demonstrate his rank…it shows us how to melt even the biggest Islamophobe. With patience, love and compassion.

I don’t think you guys get a really simple concept…which surprises me considering all the religious experts on this forum. I am quite shocked that someone like ME…a so called ABCD…can grasp this but the more learned people cannot? It proves one thing very well to me…that Islam really does not depend on a 3rd person to be a middle man. No one should rely on the words of another…always look for your own answers via Qur’an and Ahadith.

Here goes: The Prophet’s (saw) example is the ONLY example that matters. His reactions are the ONLY reactions that matter. Desi Muslims are really weird. You were sent a human being who spent his entire life showing Muslims how to live…his existance was a dedication to his Ummah and here you are saying…“oh he was too good for us to even think about emulating him”.

Wha? Why is there always excuse upon excuse to not have the guts to do the right thing?

No Psyah, as a Muslim…his opinion, his life, his reactions and his message are the only ones that matter. No other reactions, interpretations, opinions, conclusions are allowed. Even you should know that much.

[Southie]

Re: Weird

And Jesus Christ preached show the other cheek. Buddha was for non violence.

What happened to ahimsa as a core principle.

To add to the above post, most of these are common sense. Some may need a book to get that common sense. The pity is when people read the book and come away with the sure conclusion that violence is allowed.

[psyah]

Re: Weird

@Reha

Did the Prophet (saw) condemn this woman for insulting the messenger of Allah swt? Did he??? Answer that.

You’re doing it again. Basically saying that (nauzubillah) the Prophet’s (saw) reactions and examples are good enough to talk about but not emulate?

That account is a demonstration of what he expects his Ummah to do. It does not demonstrate his rank…it shows us how to melt even the biggest Islamophobe. With patience, love and compassion.

I don’t think you guys get a really simple concept…which surprises me considering all the religious experts on this forum. I am quite shocked that someone like ME…a so called ABCD…can grasp this but the more learned people cannot? It proves one thing very well to me…that Islam really does not depend on a 3rd person to be a middle man. No one should rely on the words of another…always look for your own answers via Qur’an and Ahadith.

Here goes: The Prophet’s (saw) example is the ONLY example that matters. His reactions are the ONLY reactions that matter. Desi Muslims are really weird. You were sent a human being who spent his entire life showing Muslims how to live…his existance was a dedication to his Ummah and here you are saying…“oh he was too good for us to even think about emulating him”.

Wha? Why is there always excuse upon excuse to not have the guts to do the right thing?

No Psyah, as a Muslim…his opinion, his life, his reactions and his message are the only ones that matter. No other reactions, interpretations, opinions, conclusions are allowed. Even you should know that much.

Dear Sister Reha

I’m not saying we should not emulate RasoolAllah (SAW) … Yes that example you gave is a good one to emulate and
I would use this very example to console the hearts of the Muslims who are deeply affected by the harm of the insulters and others too, to help them regain composure. RasoolAllah (SAW)'s example of personal attacks on him is slightly different on how we should view attacks on him (SAW) … You see if we were being personally attacked, i.e. if I was being personally attacked then yes … It would be better to walk away. In the case of where another is being attacked while we are bystanders … What is the requirement of the bystander? To stop evil harm, or to speak out against it, or to dislike it in the heart, the last being the lowest of Iman. And if that other being attacked was someone more dearer to me than my own parents, then how does Islam expect us to react? What reaction does Islam allow before it becomes a sin?

The actual topic is about welcoming insult vs not allowing it. Islam requires us to be humble and forbearing but it prohibits us from being dishonouring of ourselves too. Sayyiduna Muhammad (SAW) never asked people to insult him … Rather poetry used to be used as a form of propaganda against Muslims, like cartoons are used today … Those poets were condemned by the early community. People think it’s easy to ignore insults about those who they love … Perhaps they don’t really love anything enough!

[psyah]

Re: Weird

Do blacks need to learn how to chill? Or did the white guys deserve it? …

Is this the grandeur in freedom of speech?

BUT …
Crazy Muslims can’t be calm