Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar
my dear brother, Mr. Fraudia please answer my simple question: Do you pray 5 times a day? Sorry, it's off topic but let's start from here
Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar
[quote=“USResident”]
**If you are looking for specific precedences in Quran and Hadith then I find it hard to believe how you could be doing anything along with the mainstream ummah dear brother. **
as I stated plainly earlier, this is not about me following something or not, last time I checked I was not a woman .. its an academic discussion. what is so hard to believe that someone could ask questions about the basis of some practice.
**Hijab being one issue that you mention, should we all start praying different number of Rakah for prayers since there is no precedence for it in the Quran. **
well we can cover that topic later, but lets finish this topic first..shall we 
** When you present a certain line of reasoning then ensure it is not in conflict with some else you practice. For me the interpretations of the Quranic ayah to cover hair are not in conflict with anything in the Quran or Sunnah. Why is it that you are objecting to it then? **
and which quranic ayyats are you referring to?
None of the muslims objected to it till they wanted to assimilate themselves into western societies.
askign questions, askign for clarifications, and trying to understand the basis is not objecting to it.
**It is commonly said the closer to haram you are the more liable you are to get involved in it. So for those who cover there hair are farther away from indulging in other kinds of western modesty standards or skimpier clothing compared to those who do not cover the heads. **
anecdotal at best. and it still does not answer the question, it is running off in a different direction alltogether.
When you start giving yourself some leeway it becomes a habit and you compromise more and more. After the head it is sleeveless, which you can see now all over Pakistan now. After sleeveless it is plunging necklines, which is also taking place in Pakistan and the Arab world. The next fad is probably showing off your belly, which is not commonplace yet but you can see it in our movie industry now. And it goes on and on …
again, a personal perspective, a supposed cause and effect relationship. I mean why is logic such a bad thing or intellectual reasoning such a bad thing when it goes against the society norms and commonly held beliefs, but when it is in support of it we can draw all these parallels.
regardless, the point here is not to convince me of societal virtues of decency, but what is the exavt religious ruling on it and what is the basis.
**In Islam I’m sure you are aware that what leads to haram is also haram. **
whether or not there is a direct correlation?
**And tell me why do you want your women to be showing off their hair, lets hear an answer. **
where did I say I want or dont want women to be showing their hair. all I am asking for is the basis and proof, since it appears there is some disparity or difference of opinion.
**Is hair not part of a womans beauty, we have different hairdo’s to enhance our image, is this not true. **
in that case, eyes are a part of woman’s beauty, lips are, chin is, cheeks are nose is, I guess saudis really got somthing when they make the women wear masks. or maybe the taleban were correct in putting women in shuttlecock burqas.
Well are you suggesting you want to see the enhancing of the image or have no concern with it.
I am asking for proof, thats it. dont go run around in 50 million directions, askign me whether I believe in this or not, that does squat, that does not tell me anything I do not know already.
show me the proof.
Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar
if its off topic open a different thread, lets stay on the topic here Thank You
Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar
..? 
Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar
I'm surprised to recieve this response when you're the one who's always off topic and try to create arguments for no reason. Let me tell you something, the topic is whether hijaab is wajab NOT if all ahadith are fabricated or not. Before you tell someone something make sure you follow it!
Don't you get ever tierd of saying these kind of statements over and over again?
Honestly, so far what i've seen, regardless what the topic is, you forcefully bring this idea into discussion, seems like you're so obsessed with it! Just an advise, before we point at someone else's flaws we should look at ourselves and see where we stand!
i've no problem in starting a new thread but there's no point of it, if you're going to repeat yourself again, is it?
Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar
Well for one thing, people before us understood Islam better than us. If they didn't have a reason to discuss the issue then why should we. If the early generations of muslims didn't have a difference of opinion on a matter then we shouldn't differ either.
Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar
[quote=“AllahkaBanda”]
I’m surprised to recieve this response when you’re the one who’s always off topic and try to create arguments for no reason. Let me tell you something, the topic is whether hijaab is wajab NOT if all ahadith are fabricated or not. Before you tell someone something make sure you follow it! **
well your surpise s not my problem, please show where i have created arguments for no reason. I am assuming that by your argument that ‘before you tell something make sure you follow it’ that you are a perfect muslim and are 100% correct in all you do, otherwise by your own advise, you have no room to speak.
**Don’t you get ever tierd of saying these kind of statements over and over again? **
dont you get tired of not answering and making this about me rather than the toic at hand? I mean if you dont have enough knowledge to answer the question simply say so.
**Honestly, so far what i’ve seen, regardless what the topic is, you forcefully bring this idea into discussion, seems like you’re so obsessed with it! **
what idea? that there are practices ranging from things as simple as ooncha pajama, and beard, to shuttlecock burqas, honor killings and female gential utilation thatdont really seem to have much to do with religion. maybe i am obsessed by it, I like to consider it more of an interest to find out more about concepts that we all take for granted.
Just an advise, before we point at someone else’s flaws we should look at ourselves and see where we stand!
Indeed…indeed..and I do hope we all practice what we preach, as I dont think I have pointed at anyone’s flaws, however in this very thread you have pointed at what in your humble viewpoint are my supposed flaws u know, the obsession stuff.
**i’ve no problem in starting a new thread but there’s no point of it, if you’re going to repeat yourself again, is it?
**
why ask me personal questions? I mean lets answer the questions that i have posted which are on this specific topic i.e. hijab, and what exactly is hijab, and what are the differnet views of it, and where the confusion is.
Running into fifteen different directions, making ths thread about me rather than the topic at hand, and dragging in whether or not I pray 5 times a day does what?
The fact of the matter is that no one in this thread has been able to make an educated argument, some ppl are interested in shutting me up, others are interested in showing me as a wanna be muslim, some start wondering whether I am some model muslim but what they cant do is answer a few simple questions.
Aray bhai logo…if you cant answer questions from a fellow muslim, how would you go and discuss religion with non muslims, when they ask you questions, when they want to uderstand the bass of things, when they bring about such issues. Would you be interested in shutting them up, or would you be interested in trying to educate them and discuss with them.
sadly so much of the energy here is spent on ‘winning arguments’ no matter if ppl have to resort to lows of mking it personal, that a discussion can not take place, no matter how sincere
Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar
sherafgan, i see your point, but then people before us made mistakes too. I have given examples of middle east where for centuries women are wearing masks on their faces..is that hijab, is that what hijab calls for. I mean its either one thing or another, if we go with the defnition of hijab of covering hair and just having face hands and feet visible, then arabs are incorrect, they may make the same argumet that people before them knew more thus we should just not differ and join the bher chaal. where does it place taleban..and shutlecock burqas, are the forcing wmen to do more than what religion requires..in the guise of religion. etc etc.
I mean if we are not going to discuss things about our faith who will? if we dont educate oursleves to be able to answer questions and to be able to speak to a topic, who will?
Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar
~princess*hijabi~ nay farmaya
where'd you get that assumption from?
do you honestly believe that people who are engaging in honor killings think that it is against religion? in their twisted minds they are completely in line with religion. Its no assumption, go read up on it
**lol...you referring to the scarf thread and your own way of thinking?
thats fine by me. I think you should be careful though not to fall into doubts which come from asking too many unneccessary questions.**
as i said somewhere, last time i checked i was not a woman so head scarf is not my issue right now :) and how are they unnecessary questions, these are very valid questions..with answers, maybe I am asking it t the wrong crowd. In my expeience as I have sat with scholars and asked questions, they have not made it a discussion about me, they have been very knowledgeable and have explained what they know and what they dont know and is unknown etc... I am unfortunate that I do not have regular access to those scholars anymore due to my move, but I can always go see them on weekends :)
only if it starts ruining the way people think and putting weird ideas into their heads..yikesss! i am soo outta here!
yup and weird ideas about religion have let people to female genital mutilation, honor killings and what nots...I suppose when soeone asks about those practices in that community they are probably told the same..dont have discussions if it is going to put weird ideas in people's heads and they will stop doing what we believe is right since our elders told us.
Just to be clear, i am not drawing a parallel between hijab and honor killings here, but using it as example. yes I know hijab is fard, but the definition of hijab is not clear...
if you have any doubts my dear pricess hijabi, put on a head scarf and regular decent clothes, and go walk in saudi arabia...they think they are right, you think u are right, who is right? so if you go and ask them to show you where it says that women have to wear abayas and face masks or cover their faces, and they come to you with similar answers, would it give u what u are looking for, would it satisfy your academic curiosity? not at all
and that is exactly what I am sensing here
Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar
Brothers,
The main fatwa of ahle sunnah wal jamaat has to come from our highest religious authority and that at present is Mufti Hazrat Goma (Jama-Al Azhar highest authority hanafi mujtahhid).
Mufti Hazrat Goma never and i repeat "never told us to stop doing Hijab".
End of the story :)
Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar
where'd you get that assumption from?
do you honestly believe that people who are engaging in honor killings think that itis against religion? in hheir twisted minds they are completely in line with religion. Its no assumption, go read up on it
lol...you referring to the scarf thread and your own way of thinking?
thats fine by me. I think you should be careful though not to fall into doubts which come from asking too many unneccessary questions.
as i said somewhere, last time i checked i was not a woman so head scrf is not my issue righgt now :) and how are the unnecessary questions, these are very valid questions..with answers, maybe I am asking it t the wrong crowd. In my expeience as I have sat wotrh scholars and asked questions, they have not made it a discussion about me, they ahve been very knowledgeable and have explained what they kno and wht they dont know and is unknown etc... I am unfortunate that I do not have regular access to those scholars anymore due to my move, but I can always go see the on weekends :)
only if it starts ruining the way people think and putting weird ideas into their heads..yikesss! i am soo outta here!
yup and weird ideas about religion have let people to female gential mutilation, honor killings and what nots...I suppose when soeone asks about those practices in that community they are probably tol the same..dont have discussions if it is going to put weird ideas in people's heads and they will sro doign what we believe is right since our elders told us.
Just to be clear, i am not drawing a parallelk betwee hijab and honor killings here, but using it as example. yes I know hijab is fard, but the definition of hijab is not clear...
if you have any doubts my dear pricess hijabi, put ona head scarf and regular decent clothes, and go walk in saudi arabia...they think they are right, you think u are right, who is right? so if you go and ask them to show you where it says that women have to wear abayas and face masks or cover their faces, and they come to yo with similar answers, would it give u what u are looking for, would it satisfy your academic curiosity? not at all
and that is exactly what I am sensing here
Bang on. Seriously, does it kill people to think for themselves just for a single second? I'm not saying that we all have to become the next Nietzsche but questioning pre-conceived notions should come naturally to everyone.
Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar
My questions are not ‘whether’ hijab is farz, but what is hijab. and that is still a very open question. story continues
Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar
personally from what I have researched and put into practice is that hijab is built on two levels, one level is the inner modesty, which in my opinion is most important) and the second level is the outer modesty which is reflected in our choice of clothing. without the two levels the hijab is not complete.
for me, it started out with the hijab (strictly head covering) then i realized that it didnt just have to do with head covering but the soul which then had to reflect the exterior.
hope that gave some insight as to how I see hijab.
Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar
Islam is for those who have some common sense and who can use their intellect.
So if you use your own head instead of depending on the views of these misguided souls and hired fools of Westerners then you yourself can come to a conclusion about what hijab is.
If I am not wrong then hijab is something which stops a man to get attracted to a non mahram woman e.g
she is not allowed to wear shoes which makes extra tapping sound which comes from long heels,
she is not allowed to spray perfumes which tempt all Fraudia people (lol) to search for the Beauty Queen who wears them,
she is not allowed to expose her long, silky and shiny hair as many Fraudia men are crazy about women's hair.
Am I wrong Fraudia jee?
I mean, at least you have to accept that headscarf is a basic requirement of hijab.
Or you can dare prove me wrong?
The rest, I don't think, I should explain because you wouldn't disagree with me anymore.
Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar
We can't discredit those before us on these grounds. We still take our knowledge from those before us, as long as the mistakes are not something serious. We are all humans and we make mistakes.
These countries follow a certain fiqh, and they enforce whatever is wajib. I don't see anything wrong with this unless if you can show me that enforcing something that is wajib is wrong.
Also, I think all scholars agree that the more a woman covers the better it is. And that it was the Sunnah of the Ummahaat ul Mumineen to wear niqab.
You are asking "what is hijab", this question should be answered by knowledgable, competent and trustworthy scholars because an average person cannot derive these types of rulings from the Quran or Sunnah.
There's nothing wrong with discussing our faith, but we should stay away from deriving rulings from the Quran and Sunnah.
Plus discussing "what is hijab" is not really discussing our faith, I would say that discussing faith would mean discussing aqeedah.
Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar
Not all of us are adolescent teenagers who get aroused by looking at a woman’s face or hair. So you are wrong.
Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar
You are asking "what is hijab", this question should be answered by knowledgable, competent and trustworthy scholars because an average person cannot derive these types of rulings from the Quran or Sunnah. There's nothing wrong with discussing our faith, but we should stay away from deriving rulings from the Quran and Sunnah.
if an average person cannot derive a conclusion from the Qur'an and sunnah then how can it be implemented?
please stop making religion hard for everyone's sake.
Qur'an can be understood by an average folk, that is the beauty and miracle of the Qur'an
Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar
Look at post #6, in the same thread to understand the definition of hijab. Though i have provided with a gist of it. There is a broad meaning to hijab.
Period. You have your answer there.
I dont understand, why did you beat round the bush to know this simple answer.
Ajmal, come over it i am following you for a long time, are you into marketing or sales of Azhar university I dont deny the respect for this university but today its lost that glamour in terms of Islamic world.
Because of its own reason and certain political motives. I havent come across, in detail regarding Azhar university, losing it status and why its not regarded as the main force today. So please quote from Quran and Haddith, and dont just market.
I would love people to directly quote from Quran and Hadith, when they are interacting issues, of any rulings in Islam.
Allaah says in the Quran,
Qul, Hatoo Burhanakum in kuntum saadiqeen.
Say" Produce your proof if your truthful".
Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar
In fact, woman has to be covered and this would be in accordance with the culture or weather etc.
So if pathans in Afghanistan or Pakistan wear shuttle cocks then why you can make your women wear socks, pathans wouldn't mind it.
I mean why it gives you a stomach ache if they wear shuttle cock?
Are they stealing cloth from your textile factory to make shuttle cocks?
Arabs or Asians do hijab in their own way (according to their culture), and it is a dismay for you that all of them cover their heads.
Or not?
Re: Wearing Of Hijab Not Required By Quran: Egyptian Scholar
please stop making religion hard for everyone's sake. Qur'an can be understood by an average folk, that is the beauty and miracle of the Qur'an
Yes but the average folk needs to know Arabic language comprehensively, otherwise a Kafir and Zindeeq like Rashad Khalifah would mock at Quran using English translations of Quran.