We should not be ignorant and should know the truth.

[Aalsi]

No election is fair until Pakistanis elect three important leaders. Gen Hamid Gul, Captain Imran Khan, and Imam Fazal Hussain. Only and only then we'll know that elections were done right.

Let's hope they decide to take part in the next elections. Especially now that Imran Khan has found support in Karachi from MQM (Haqiqi). As the title of the thread suggests, ** 'We should not be ignorant and should know the truth'.** :)

[Sa1eem]

@Sa1eem

Some goons of Thug Nawaz do propaganda and could not understand that where those Billion of dollars that Pakistan received during last 8 years gone? I do not know what billion of dollars they talk about. Anyhow, Pakistan has always got many billions of dollars from sources other than export. In past, corrupt thugs use to send those dollars to their own accounts in west (mostly by their crook means). What happened during last 8 years?

This is how dollars came to Pakistan (excluding exports):
USA: around 10 billion dollars (that includes servicing costs to USA plus all payments from USA plus earthquake related receipts).
Other countries: around 10 billion dollars (that includes all receipts from Arab countries, European countries, and other countries, donations, related to any matters, including earthquake in Kashmir)

Remittances: around 25 billion dollars.

FDI: Around 10 billion dollars.

Dollar purchases from open market: around 10 to 15 billion dollars.

Total around 65 to 70 billion dollars.

Expenses:
Interest paid on dollar debt taken before 1999 (pre-Musharraf dollar debts): Around 30 billion dollars
[We should remember that Pakistan had around $38 billion debt in 1999 and just interest on those debts was around 4 billion dollars a year … so, over 8 years … it was near to around 30 billion dollars].

Reserves: around 16 billion dollars.
[Pakistan reserves increased from nothing to around 16.5 billion dollars by Oct ‘07]

Balance of payment financing (Imports – exports) plus (differences in servicing costs)) during last 8 years: around 25 billion dollars.

Total around 70 billion dollars.

Here is record of Pakistan balance of Payment:

http://www.sbp.org.pk/ecodata/exp_import_BOP.pdf

2002-2003: -444 millions
2003-2004: -1.208 billions
2004-2005: -4.351 billons
2005-2006: -8.236 billions
2006-2007: -9.495 billions

(Unfortunately during last five years, Pakistan balance of payment was – 23.734 billions)

So sorry, no looting and plundering :halo:

Oh yea, I forgot. Goons of Thug Nawaz and Liars like Ishaque Dar and Ahsan Iqbal of Punjab Municipal Party (Notorious) always think of having free lunch. They got used to living on charities coming from Taxes paid by others. These people do not understand that there is no free lunch in international financial market and those amongst them who do understand are blatant liars and they always lie blatantly to keep people ignorant of truth. Fact of world financial market is that if one borrows (even if that one is a country) than one has to pay what they borrowed with interest.

Anyhow, goons of Thug Nawaz many times talk in media about rescheduling of debt to fool ignorant Pakistanis and unfortunately many innocent Pakistanis get fooled by lies these crooks especially those who believe on free lunch and do not know what rescheduling means. So, here is what rescheduling of debt means.

First type of rescheduling (one that Pakistan adopted) is to extend the period of debt repayment but keep the interest payment going plus keep paying reduced portion of debt Capital every year. Result is that interest is paid as usual but borrowed Capital is paid over longer period. In this type of rescheduling, debts that are rescheduled do not increases rather debt gets reduced slowly and takes longer time to get amortized. This is what happened when Pakistan rescheduled the debt. [Well, debt would still increase if new borrowing is done … as whenever rescheduling happened in past, crooks like Nawaz and BeNazir did, started borrowing in big way again].

Second type of rescheduling is to just pay interest and take holiday on paying borrowed Capital. Hence, actual borrowed Capital stays same and does not reduce. This holiday period from repaying actual Capital is always short and gives relief to borrowers who are on verge of Bankruptcy. Once holiday period is over or borrower comes out of bad financial situation, borrower starts paying Capital along with interest again. Borrower benefits in immediate payment but loses over long run as normally in such situation, lenders also increase the interest rate of existing debt. This type of rescheduling is similar to first type with little difference (because of likely increase in interest rate, first type is better).

Third type of rescheduling happens when debts repayment as well as interest on that debt gets differed until situation of borrower changes. In this type of rescheduling no debt or interest is paid for a period. Anyhow, interest rate gets negotiated again and normally interest rate gets increased. All occurred interest gets added to existing debt every year with new interest getting worked out every year on new value of debt. In this type of rescheduling, though borrower gets immense immediate relief but debt starts getting increased very fast as interest keeps increasing the debt. Pakistan rescheduling was not like this type of rescheduling as if that would have been the case then Pakistan debt would have increased in big way. For instance, $38 billion debts of 1999 would have become over $80 billion today without any extra borrowing.

So there is no free lunch in international financing. One can see that interest plus borrowed Capital is always paid by borrowers, and if borrowers do not then interest starts increasing the debt. Pakistan debt did not increase because Pakistan kept paying the interest. Actually Pakistan kept paying interest and reduced borrowed capital too. So, what I wrote that Pakistan has paid at least $30 billion dollars as interest on pre-1999 debt taken by past crooks is 100 percent true. Most likely Pakistan has paid more interest but not less.

[vigoratus]

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Oh yea, I forgot. Goons of Thug Nawaz and Liars like Daar and Ahsan of Punjab Municipal Party (Notorious) always think of having free lunch. They got used to living on charities coming from Taxes paid by others. These people do not understand that there is no free lunch in international financial market and those amongst them who do understand are big liars and they always lie blatantly to keep people ignorant of truth. Fact of world financial market is that if one borrows (even if that one is a country) than one has to pay what they borrowed with interest. [FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Anyhow, crook goons of Thug Nawaz many times talk in media about rescheduling of debt to fool ignorant Pakistanis and unfortunately many Pakistanis get fooled by these crooks as these innocent Pakistanis believe on free lunch and do not know what rescheduling means. So, here is what rescheduling of debt means. [FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']First type of rescheduling (one that Pakistan adopted) is to extend the period of debt repayment but keep the interest payment going plus keep paying reduced portion of debt Capital every year. Result is that interest is paid as usual but borrowed Capital is paid over longer period. In this type of rescheduling, debt does not increases rather debt gets reduced slowly and takes longer time to get amortized. This is what happened when Pakistan rescheduled the debt. [FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Second type of rescheduling is to just pay interest and take holiday on paying borrowed Capital. Hence, actual borrowed Capital stays same and does not reduce. This holiday period from repaying actual Capital is always short and gives relief to borrowers who are on verge of Bankruptcy. Once holiday period is over or borrower comes out of bad financial situation, borrower starts paying Capital along with interest again. Borrower benefits in immediate payment but loses over long run as normally in such situation, lenders also increase the interest rate of existing debt. This type of rescheduling is similar to first type with little difference (because of likely increase in interest rate, first type is better). [FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Third type of rescheduling happens when debts repayment as well as interest on that debt gets differed until situation of borrower changes. In this type of rescheduling no debt or interest is paid for a period. Anyhow, interest rate gets negotiated again and normally interest rate gets increased. All occurred interest gets added to existing debt every year with new interest getting worked out every year on new value of debt. In this type of rescheduling, though borrower gets immense immediate relief but debt starts getting increased very fast as interest keeps increasing the debt. Pakistan rescheduling was not like this type of rescheduling as if that would have been the case then Pakistan debt would have increased in big way. For instance, $38 billion debts of 1999 would have become over $80 billion today without any extra borrowing. [FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']So one can see that interest is always paid by borrowers, and if borrowers do not then interest starts increasing the debt. Pakistan debt did not increase because Pakistan kept paying the interest. Actually Pakistan kept paying interest and reduced borrowed capital too. So, what I wrote that Pakistan has paid at least $30 billion dollars as interest on pre-1999 debt taken by past crooks is 100 percent true. Most likely Pakistan has paid more interest but not less. [FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']

Sa1eem man! you always copy/paste w/out any regard for editing it to actually atleast make it look like your work. tsk tsk tsk...

And i thought you did your homework :)

[Sa1eem]

Sa1eem man! you always copy/paste w/out any regard for editing it to actually atleast make it look like your work. tsk tsk tsk...

And i thought you did your homework :)

Well, if you come out of Ganja's spell and think than you would know whose work it is. Anyhow, I am sorry that I have to type it on my pc and then paste it else it would be difficult to write in details. I am not writing one liner :D

[vigoratus]

Re: We should not be ignorant and should know the truth.

Are you accusing me of something? Lets be honorable and not start the name-calling. It really exposes the other person's character/class when you start doing that. Okie? :) Thanks

As far as what you say goes, well most here seem to take you for entertainment more than anything else. so carry on....you're quite amusing.

BTW, I hope PML(Q) will win overwhelmingly in the next elections. Wouldn't want you to be wrong, again! :D

PS: Your remarks really shows your desperation btw, how you ran to call me a name because someone called you out as it is 'Copy/Paste' as always.

[Sa1eem]

Are you accusing me of something? Lets be honorable and not start the name-calling. It really exposes the other person class when you start doing that. Okie? :) Thanks

OK .. bura maan gayea tou ... I am sorry :)

[Spock]

@burqaposhx

Spock bro! looks like you woke up on the wrong side of the bed . Instead of talking about the thread, you are consistently derailing the discussion. Is everything OK?

It was actually you who derailed it, after I pointed out mostar was right.

What do you mean by “We all”. Is there a secret society with a secret handshake that defines “we all”.

Who is antiobl who you keep on referring to? Did he borrow money (or took something even more precious ) from you?

I don’t think you are fooling anyone, and everyone about it. The funny thing is, you had to change it

[Spock]

Saleem,

Very comprehensive analysis and seems like a lot of research has gone into it.

Great!

Although its probably information overload and likely not many people on GS can actually process so much information to respond beyond one-liners, name-calling and copy-pastes. So I am afraid at the end of the day you will be sorely disappointed with the responses (unless you can send an SOS to your buddies Aalsi, Reza and Kehkashan etc)

I have two problems here. #1, I am not too knowledgable about such complicated macro-economic issues and #2, after your insightful comments after elections and the mind-boggling statistics that you were quoting about which party got more support in the people, your credibility in my mind is fairly low. So I can't trust all these claims nor am I about to go into a discussion on such a complex topic.

But let one person not distract you from your mission. Carry on... :)

Cheers!

:biggthumb

[Khehkeshan]

Re: We should not be ignorant and should know the truth.

Saleem good work, once again faced with facts and intelligent discourse, these people will try to get away with one liners. :k:

[Dushwari]

Re: We should not be ignorant and should know the truth.

i had written a nice paragraph on the thread's topic but lost it when hit back accidently. in any event, partly we are all responsible for this happening to our country.

it is everty one's fight and strife and our prayers should be together with our actions, for prosperity of Pakistan and us as a nation. it will require hard work across all sectors of our nation, but it is possible.

[Spock]

@Khehkeshan

Saleem good work, once again faced with facts and intelligent discourse, these people will try to get away with one liners. :k:

haha you forgot to congratulate him on the 175 PML[Q] seat prediction.

[hanibal]

haha you forgot to congratulate him on the 175 PML[Q] seat prediction.

I think the prediction was right and was taken directly from the Govt. ( mush + pml (q)) plans, but alas, people of Pakistan went out to vote so the whole plan went into smoke.

Sa1em along with others, might have assigned the task to make up minds of the people of Pakistan by putting those numbers to avoid element of surprise.

So every one please stop blaming him, otherwise he will not let us know what and how govt.(mushy, pml(q) mqm) thinks.

[GoldenAsif]

For a/o of Dear Saleem:

The Art of Concise Writing** :k:**
http://www.usi.edu/acadskil/owl/concisbh.htm

The Art of Writing: 10 Tips from the Masters
http://www.behance.net/Tips/The-Art-of-Writing-10-Tips-from-the-Masters/94

1. Cut the boring parts
2. Eliminate unnecessary words
3. Write with passion
4. Paint a picture
5. Keep it simple
6. Do it for love
7. Learn to thrive on criticism
8. Write all the time
9. Write what you know … or what you want to know
10. Be unique and unpredictable

(PS. you may wish to ignore tip 8)

[Aalsi]

@Sa1eem

Oh yea, I forgot. Goons of Thug Nawaz and Liars like Ishaque Dar and Ahsan Iqbal of Punjab Municipal Party (Notorious) always think of having free lunch. They got used to living on charities coming from Taxes paid by others. These people do not understand that there is no free lunch in international financial market and those amongst them who do understand are blatant liars and they always lie blatantly to keep people ignorant of truth. Fact of world financial market is that if one borrows (even if that one is a country) than one has to pay what they borrowed with interest.

Anyhow, goons of Thug Nawaz many times talk in media about rescheduling of debt to fool ignorant Pakistanis and unfortunately many innocent Pakistanis get fooled by lies these crooks especially those who believe on free lunch and do not know what rescheduling means. So, here is what rescheduling of debt means.

First type of rescheduling (one that Pakistan adopted) is to extend the period of debt repayment but keep the interest payment going plus keep paying reduced portion of debt Capital every year. Result is that interest is paid as usual but borrowed Capital is paid over longer period. In this type of rescheduling, debts that are rescheduled do not increases rather debt gets reduced slowly and takes longer time to get amortized. This is what happened when Pakistan rescheduled the debt. [Well, debt would still increase if new borrowing is done … as whenever rescheduling happened in past, crooks like Nawaz and BeNazir did, started borrowing in big way again].

Second type of rescheduling is to just pay interest and take holiday on paying borrowed Capital. Hence, actual borrowed Capital stays same and does not reduce. This holiday period from repaying actual Capital is always short and gives relief to borrowers who are on verge of Bankruptcy. Once holiday period is over or borrower comes out of bad financial situation, borrower starts paying Capital along with interest again. Borrower benefits in immediate payment but loses over long run as normally in such situation, lenders also increase the interest rate of existing debt. This type of rescheduling is similar to first type with little difference (because of likely increase in interest rate, first type is better).

Third type of rescheduling happens when debts repayment as well as interest on that debt gets differed until situation of borrower changes. In this type of rescheduling no debt or interest is paid for a period. Anyhow, interest rate gets negotiated again and normally interest rate gets increased. All occurred interest gets added to existing debt every year with new interest getting worked out every year on new value of debt. In this type of rescheduling, though borrower gets immense immediate relief but debt starts getting increased very fast as interest keeps increasing the debt. Pakistan rescheduling was not like this type of rescheduling as if that would have been the case then Pakistan debt would have increased in big way. For instance, $38 billion debts of 1999 would have become over $80 billion today without any extra borrowing.

So there is no free lunch in international financing. One can see that interest plus borrowed Capital is always paid by borrowers, and if borrowers do not then interest starts increasing the debt. Pakistan debt did not increase because Pakistan kept paying the interest. Actually Pakistan kept paying interest and reduced borrowed capital too. So, what I wrote that Pakistan has paid at least $30 billion dollars as interest on pre-1999 debt taken by past crooks is 100 percent true. Most likely Pakistan has paid more interest but not less.

Sa1eem bhai. Very informative indeed. :k: