Re: We should not be ignorant and should know the truth.
Well our main problem is the lack of honesty! Frankly speaking, this is the only problem in this country!
2, after your insightful comments after elections and the mind-boggling statistics that you were quoting about which party got more support in the people, your credibility in my mind is fairly low.
But let one person not distract you from your mission. Carry on... :)
Cheers!
He posts same thing again and again from forum to forum. As for credibility well umm :D
Some goons of Thug Nawaz do propaganda and could not understand that where those Billion of dollars that Pakistan received during last 8 years gone? I do not know what billion of dollars they talk about. Anyhow, Pakistan has always got many billions of dollars from sources other than export. In past, corrupt thugs use to send those dollars to their own accounts in west (mostly by their crook means). What happened during last 8 years?
This is how dollars came to Pakistan (excluding exports):
USA: around 10 billion dollars (that includes servicing costs to USA plus all payments from USA plus earthquake related receipts).
Other countries: around 10 billion dollars (that includes all receipts from Arab countries, European countries, and other countries, donations, related to any matters, including earthquake in Kashmir)
Remittances: around 25 billion dollars.
FDI: Around 10 billion dollars.
Dollar purchases from open market: around 10 to 15 billion dollars.
Total around 65 to 70 billion dollars.
Expenses:
Interest paid on dollar debt taken before 1999 (pre-Musharraf dollar debts): Around 30 billion dollars
[We should remember that Pakistan had around $38 billion debt in 1999 and just interest on those debts was around 4 billion dollars a year … so, over 8 years … it was near to around 30 billion dollars].
Reserves: around 16 billion dollars.
[Pakistan reserves increased from nothing to around 16.5 billion dollars by Oct ‘07]
Balance of payment financing (Imports – exports) plus (differences in servicing costs)) during last 8 years: around 25 billion dollars.
Total around 70 billion dollars.
Here is record of Pakistan balance of Payment:
2002-2003: -444 millions
2003-2004: -1.208 billions
2004-2005: -4.351 billons
2005-2006: -8.236 billions
2006-2007: -9.495 billions
(Unfortunately during last five years, Pakistan balance of payment was – 23.734 billions)
So sorry, no looting and plundering :halo:
Some people are in the habit of making up things on their own without putting any link to support their argument…
Claim that 30 billion dollars was paid as an interest on past loans is a balatant lie…Pakistan’s forein debts were rescheduled in 2002 for 38 years and not only we were not to obliged to pay any interest on these loans but repayment of principle was also deffered…
Paris Club rescheduling to bring 40 percent cut in net present value
courtesy of Business Recorder Printer-friendly format
news added on 12/21/2002
ISLAMABAD (December 22 2002) : With the cancellation of debt, debt swaps and interest rate reduction, the relief from Paris Club bilateral loans rescheduling would bring 40 percent reduction in net present value (NPV) of existing $ 12.5 billion debt stock.
Based on rescheduling alone, a 30 percent reduction in net present value of outstanding stock of debt was envisaged.
This amount of relief in net present value was between $ 10 and $ 11 billion and any further achievements could increase it.
The full extent of relief would be determined after Pakistan works out bilateral agreements with the creditors.
There are individual creditors who have committed to either cancel their debts or have shown their willingness of $ 1.5 billion swap for social sector spending.
The total payment to be made in terms of NPV could be $ 36 billion against $ 12.5 billion.
The loan was restructured according to the following terms:** Official Development Assistance credits are to be repaid over 38 years, with 15 years grace period at interest rate at least as favourable as the concessional rates to be applying to those loans.** Commercial credits were also asked to reschedule and to be repaid over 23 years, with 5 years of grace and progressive payments, at the appropriate market rate.
This rescheduling only matched with few other countries, such as Poland, Jordan, Egypt and Yugoslavia.
External debt burden to be reduced to 200 percent of foreign exchange earnings. Public debt burden to be reduced to 350 percent of government revenues by 2010.
Government is almost getting $ 6 billion of exceptional assistance from the IMF, World Bank and ADB by 2004 as demanded. This would keep non-concessional borrowing to a minimum.
Pakistan needs to pay $ 21 billion during four years, when it demanded from donors $ 6 billion exceptional financing to bail it out. The implementation of tough reforms made the flow of funds easy.
Donors remained critical in many areas but also offered substantial financial support during this period.
Over simplification of balance of payment account of an entire country from one's own memory in total six minutes is probably a world record....and we should be proud of our forum that we have a genius posting in this forum who can do it....however the problem is the memory which has failed badly and it is being assumed that these over simplified version of an account about balance of payments will not be contested as everybody hanging around in this forum is not educated after level five...
When one is argueing about the spendings in a country in an saner world it is assumed the argument will be based on spending of revenues by the government and this argumement will not hover around balance of payment....the only reference which was made on fiscal relief was to highlight the fact that the Pakistani government prior to 2002 used to spend huge resources from their revenue on interest and repayments of these foreign loans, and after 2002 this resource was available to the government for some alternate spending....what we the Pakistani people don't understand is where these extra resources were spent...as we do not see any infrastructure, or social spending on the people...
Very good thread Sa1eem bhaijan.
K Khan bhaijan. In answer to your question, the govt needs to start governing, rather than getting bogged down with non-issues such as the restoration of the EX CJ, or the removal/impeachment of Great President Musharaf. As it has been seen, this is not easy or as some would say even possible.
The govt should now start getting down to the nitty gritty of governing, and providing relief to the people of Pakistan from the real crisis that is engulfing them, due to the global fuel and food crisis.
God Bless Pakistan. God Bless President Musharaf.
Re: We should not be ignorant and should know the truth.
^ I wish you would have echoed these sentiments during the last one year when the whole nation was paralysed by the illegal president in order to save his kursi. Why didnt he govern than and why was the same question not asked than. This disaster to which Saleem is alluding has been the result of inept and wrong policies of the last government over the last few years. These things do not evolve overnight.
The curse of this president still lives on as he is determined to do more damage to Pakistan in order to hold on to his kursi instead of leaving as the overwhelming population is sick and tired of him.
Re: We should not be ignorant and should know the truth.
Removal? Impeachment? What about a single bullet?
Daleel your sentiments are very well explained in The News editorial today…
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=115716
Never say never
Saturday, May 31, 2008
Even as a whirlwind of rumours swirls around him, President Musharraf seems to have taken Pakistan into a breathtaking grasp that he is unwilling to relinquish. The fact that this grasp is rapidly strangulating the country and draining it of what life it still has left seems not to have struck the man who speaks so often of acting in the national interest.** There can be no doubt at present that this interest demands that Musharraf quit. Indeed, in many ways it seems he has been left with no alternative but to do so – but still he continues to cling on to power.** It is now apparent that key institutions in the country are no longer willing to back him, both Asif Ali Zardari and Mian Nawaz Sharif have lashed out against him, there is a very real threat of impeachment even if the PPP remains diplomatically reluctant to use these words, and by staying on the president is contributing to the sense of instability and uncertainty that he claims he is anxious to correct. The suggestions from the presidential camp that he will resign only when events in the country are less turbulent make no sense. The fact is that the storm can be soothed only after Musharraf departs. It will grow only fiercer if he stays.
Multiple forces in the country are now arrayed against the president. They include the major political parties, the lawyers who have threatened a protest outside the Army House that the president still occupies and even ex-servicemen who have asked him to vacate these quarters. Whereas it is unwise to conjecture about events that took place at a closed door meeting, the flurry of news reports regarding the encounter between the president and the COAS, suggest that it went beyond a discussion on routine matters. The presidential spokesman, in a particularly vehement denial, has attacked sections of the media putting forward these accounts.
The impact of the sense of unease has been visible in falling stock markets. There has also been a persisting paralysis in governance. This will come to an end only once political calm is restored, and, given the way things stand now, this can be possible only once the president leaves the scene enabling murky waters to be cleared out and opening the way for the elected government to get on with the many tasks that urgently await it.
It is now obvious that the president’s refusal to resign is intended only to serve his own interests. The former commando, who describes himself as a stubborn man, is also, quite evidently, an exceedingly selfish one. Even though every day that he remains in office brings new problems and exacerbates the crisis the country is mired in, he is still unwilling to act for the sake of the nation and step down. Indeed, in an almost insane paradox, he insists that by staying he is serving people – even though they have made it obvious they no longer want his services.
It is unclear who is, at present, advising Mr Musharraf. Reports say he is surrounded by a small band of so-called friends who have persuaded him not to step down. Others say he still retains US support, though this, quite obviously, is flagging. All those who hold Musharraf’s ears would be doing him a great service by making it clear to him that he has almost no option but to resign. They may try to persuade him to see what lesson the recent happenings in Nepal teach those willing to learn. A failure to do so would be immensely damaging both for his own interests and those of a nation which continues to wait for the man who has dominated Pakistan for nearly nine years to finally call it a day.
the whole nation was paralysed by the illegal president
Daleel bhai. There is nothing illegal about the Great President Musharaf. That is why there is no executive order, but talks of constitutional amendment. :)
Time for the government to govern, and alleviate the crisis affecting Pakistan due to the global fuel and food crisis, and the politicization of the judiciary by the EX CJ.
Daleel bhai. There is nothing illegal about the Great President Musharaf. That is why there is no executive order, but talks of constitutional amendment. :)
Time for the government to govern, and alleviate the crisis affecting Pakistan due to the global fuel and food crisis, and the politicization of the judiciary by the EX CJ.
Aalsi bhaijan...I must point out your typo mistake....instead of writing "legal" you mistakenly wrote "illegal"...the rest of your concern about governing Pakistan through these global crisis are genuine...specially when we are facing erosion of our currency due to huge trade deficit....due to wrong policies of illegal President...can multiply the challenges faced by new government specially with respect to inflation....
due to wrong policies of illegal President....
Yazdi bhaijan. There is nothing wrong with the policies that saw Unprecedented Economic Growth. Even the present government has said they will continue with the same economic policies. :)
btw. If Great President Musharaf was illegal, then the government would have issues an executive order, rather than going through the constitutional amendment route. :)
- Cutting unnecessary imports - edible oil - change in nations attittude
- Controlling population
- Spending on education
- Cutting defence budget
For all that we need rule of law and true leaders of people.
It is not a good idea to pull these sermons out of thin air. How much do you think you can save in $billion by cutting edible oil imports? or cutting defense budget, or controlling population? How many $million more do we need for education?
There have to be cold hard numbers to show that Pakistan will some how save even $2 billion by using your suggestions 1,2,4. And how much will be the return on investment on #3 considering our socialist and anti-West trends? You mean by spending more on education we'll have more educated suicided bombers?
Instead of constantly looking inwards, and beating ourselves up with sermons, it may be better to change our outlook (a very difficult task indeed).
Look around and see how different countries have improved their lot. Some examples are:
Korea (South)
China,
India
Ireland
None of them have tried to cut anything in particular. Instead most of them have spent more on police and militaries (if applicable) with each passing year.
As for the education, we have more IT / literate persons than the whole Ireland combined.
We are suffering not because of overspending, instead we are not working hard to earn more money.
Our two sources of cold hard cash are: expats and our military services.
And how do these two earn money? By working with or in the West. That's what we need to do more. Look at China, India, South Korea and Ireland. Each one of these countries is the tourist destination (and hence investment destination) for the Western businesses.
We in Pakistan on the other hand, allow our socialists to set up anti-West policies. We out of Pakistan love to hate the West for many things in the name of religion.
And thus, the suffering in Pakistan goes on, all because of our own anarchists.
Re: We should not be ignorant and should know the truth.
^ I dont really read what you said but what mostar said is right, unless we cut down on this import-export deficit, we're screwed, and yes, over the last 8 years its increased geometrically.
Yazdi bhaijan. There is nothing wrong with the policies that saw Unprecedented Economic Growth. Even the present government has said they will continue with the same economic policies. :)
btw. If Great President Musharaf was illegal, then the government would have issues an executive order, rather than going through the constitutional amendment route. :)
Great Aalsi bhaijan...how does an executive order not given by PPP Prime Minister inspite of his party signning an agreement in front of the nation prove Musharraf legitimacy....it only proves a dishonourable act and breach of an agreement by the ruling party....under questionable motivations of NRO etc...
^ I dont really read what you said ..
I thought one has to read before putting an intelligent response. May be the rules of discussions have deteriorated these days.
Spock bro! looks like you woke up on the wrong side of the bed 
. Instead of talking about the thread, you are consistently derailing the discussion. Is everything OK?
What do you mean by “We all”. Is there a secret society with a secret handshake that defines “we all”.
Who is antiobl who you keep on referring to? Did he borrow money (or took something even more precious 
) from you?
Great Aalsi bhaijan...how does an executive order not given by PPP Prime Minister inspite of his party signning an agreement in front of the nation prove Musharraf legitimacy....it only proves a dishonourable act and breach of an agreement by the ruling party....under questionable motivations of NRO etc...
Yazdi bhaijan. Are you suggesting that the biggest coalition partner (PPP) led by Great Zardari, is not honourable? The electorate that voted for them in the Freeest and Fairest Elections in Pakistan history would not be pleased. :)
.....The electorate that voted for them in the Freeest and Fairest Elections in Pakistan history
No election is fair until Pakistanis elect three important leaders. Gen Hamid Gul, Captain Imran Khan, and Imam Fazal Hussain. Only and only then we'll know that elections were done right.