War Against Terror

1) in 1990 and prior to that, Saddam Hussain was the best Friend of Bush and Co, he was considered as the MAN of USA in the region... and the invasion of Kuwait was under the blessing of USA..

2) I am sorry my english is not as good as urs, so can you please tell me what COLE means?

3) If Al-qaida has hijaked planes and smashed them in 9/11, then is it fair to hundred of thousands people who have not heard about the country called USA or not even seen something made of steel and it flies? ( BTW, IRAQ was not involved neither named for 9/11 attacks, the people of Iraq had nothing to do with Al-Qaida and any other extremist military organization.. so why millions were killed there?)

4) If the war has brought any good to the others than the people mentioned in your reply, then by all means it has to be a war for good cause.. but i don't think anyone ( specially the people of the unfortunate country) has benefited from the war, they had lost almost everything and that is to the wish of some people who even don't belong to the land....

5) Well i don't see any other religion being attacked on such basis, one need to see basis of these almost a decade long offensive on two muslim countries

The first one ( Afghanistan) is that they have given shelter to Al-Qaida, yup one could used its technology which according to them can see an ant crawling on the earth, and could have captured the bad guys...

the Thing happened in Afghanistan is like, few bad guys hiding in a village and the cops bomb the whole village to kill everyone in the village... and yet the bad guys managed to escape!!!!

The 2nd victim of war on terror was Iraq... no links with AL-Qaida, no links to any extremist element and yet they were attacked on a false note that they have WMDs which even after a decade couldn't be found nor were used by Iraq in 40 days long war...

Now can you give me any example where any non-muslim country was bombed to death on these kind of allegations?

Re: War Against Terror

read my post again, i said most of taleban leaders studied in pakistan, and the ulema in pakistan are the ones running those successful girls madaris

and as of what success is, as i said its different for different people. What i think a successful education is what teaches you to live like a human, and to live like how ALLAH told you to live, not how murdock/cnn/bbc or star plus tells you

If this happens who is going to control Kabul?

Look you dont have to fence with me. All Im asking is what are some of these amazingly successful girls schools that you mention. To remind you, you said: their teachers could bring them back to the right track. After all, they are their very own teachers who are running amazingly successful girls only schools/ madaris in Pakistan as well, why they cannot do this in afghanistan?

Surely if they are amazingly successful they must have left a mark deep enough on you for you to remember some names. Which girls schools are these?

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and as of what success is, as i said its different for different people. What i think a successful education is what teaches you to live like a human, and to live like how ALLAH told you to live, not how murdock/cnn/bbc or star plus tells you
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If you permitted yourself a moment of immodesty, presumably you regard your own education as successful? Since you are in the UAE I would guess you have some sort of technical education, supplementing everything you learnt to live how ALLAH told you to live, not how murdoch/cnn/bbc or star plus told me. Would you regard as amazingly successful a school that provided a similar quality of education to girls, such that they were also capable of finding employment in UAE or elsewhere while living how ALLAH told them how to live?

Now I am not aware of many such amazingly successful girls school founded by the teachers of Taleban leaders. It is general perception unfortunately that Taleban leaders have been taught by particularly retrogressive teachers, on who's radar amazingly successful girls schools were not particularly high priority. You have given me reason to hope that I can get a better understanding of the real situation from you. Please enlighten which schools these are. Name names.

Re: War Against Terror

Basically the Taliban effectively control all the Pashtun areas. The problem with the war now in Afghanistan is not that it is the Taliban against ISAF. It has become effectively ISAF against the Pashtuns. At least that is how the Pashtun views the situation.

The Pashtun are the majority in Afghanistan sitting at roughly 60%. They control effectively 17 provinces out of 34. That is a rough estimate on my part. In Herat and Mazar, the ISAF forces walk on the streets and shop in the markets.

I know I go out with an Afghan in my S&K and my newly grown beard to see the area and you can see gorays, abet in full body armor and the like. But they can do so without any trouble or fear of attack.

Now what happens to Kabul? No clue. Considering the overtures by Karzai to Hizb-e-Islam which is a Taliban group in the north of the country, you could see the Taliban coming back to power in one way or another. A lot of stuff is up in the air now. We have no real idea whats happening politically as we are not in the loop.

Acenoes, seriously...girls schools in Afghanistan? Yeah right. Where? Just name one location.

What I really hate are wankers who sit pretty in nice safe locations and mouth off about stuff they have no clue about. You have never set foot in any part of Afghanistan have you?

where did i say there are girls schools in afghanistan? you said that buddy, you said atleast now girls are going to school. yeah i do really hate the wankers too when they put their own words in others mouth : )

you said that CM

Re: War Against Terror

ravage: why do you only have "employment" as standard of successful education?

why not a girl be considered successful if she makes an ethically good family, raises morally good children, in turn, actually the whole society progresses.

but yes some can take up the responsibilities of working and doing technical stuff, IF NEEDED. and only if they are given enough time

why the simple fact that men and women have different roles, cannot be digested??

why only a girl can be considered educated when she can go out and work with men, and take up the same professions as men do?

so girls should basically be trained to make an ethically good family, and raise morally good children.

I have no time to convince you of the idea that girls should be taught more than that. I started off a little surprised upon discovering this talk of amazingly successful girls schools founded by taleban's teachers, I now have a pretty good idea of what that means. Let me just ask you this. Presumably the successfully educated woman would be able, as part of raising an ethically good family, teach these tips on keeping home to any daughters she has. What is the point of a girls school anyway then?

Re: War Against Terror

^ a mother cannot teach everything to her daughter just like a father who is an engineer cannot teach everything to his son to make him an engineer : ) just like an accountant father cannot make sure that he teaches everything to his son to become an accountant

anyway, we are getting off topic : ) so lets leave it to that, and i'm sure you understand my view, you don't necessarily have to agree with that

Cute. But weak. Regardless of what you believe the Afghan people are better off now than they were with the Taliban.

Lets not forget the Taliban have killed afghans as well specific in Mosques.

You see in your example you are forced to show a different vocation, since men have a choice in their career. An engineer cannot teach accountancy skills. Thus necessitating the whole schooling business. But the role of women according to you is defined yes? women only need to do housework, surely whatever expertise the daughter is expected to have the mother will have too. It isnt as if we want ethical and moral techniques for upbringing of kiddies to change from mother to daughter.

At best all we really need to do, to have amazingly successful schooling as per your standards, is to train one set of women once, and then rely on them to pass on the good housekeeping training generation to generation. No real need for schools then?

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anyway, we are getting off topic : ) so lets leave it to that, and i'm sure you understand my view, you don't necessarily have to agree with that
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no no, I sense we are at a breakthrough here. And yes I do understand your view, but I have a feeling that schools in your system are more of a PR device than anything functional. It gives a bad impression to say we dont school girls. So you resort to this business of a completely unnecessary social structure (ideally, if your ulema e haq had their way in Afghanistan). You are amongst friends here, there is no need for this unnecessary schooling.

you miss read the whole example : )

ok lets assume that afghans are better off now than they were with taleban, now what? something the forces could not do in more than 8 years with all their resources and might, who you think is going to do that? and keep the afghans better, does it mean the war should continue? when we say they are better now, are not we accepting that the means used to * make them better * are appropriate? and not to forget, the means here are brutal military action killing thousands.

the whole point of thread was "is the war on terror good?" or did it do any good? and now because you are giving us first hand information that afghans are now much better after this war, so are you advocating for the war or something?

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I am sorry have you ever lived in Afghanistan? Lets start off with that and base whatever discussion we have when we know where you get your information from.

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^ o bhai, i honestly and humbly state that i believe you when you say that you live/work in afghanistan and are giving us correct information.

and i further add that you are the final authority on afghan issues, perhaps US should fire ISAF leads and hire you as a consultant : p

this a public board, we give our opinion here and discus stuff, why its so difficult to ignore my posts if they do not align with your point of view? why taking it personally? chill karo, afghans are happy! keep killing

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yawn Like I said I hate people who mouth off without having hands on real experience. So answer the question.

Re: War Against Terror

From Taliban in 2001:

The fifth achievement that we have, but it s a little controversial, some of our friends will not know is the restoration of Human rights. Now, YOU may think that is a violation of Human Rights, but from OUR perspective that is the restoration of Human Rights. Because usually [among] the fundamental rights of a human being is the right to Live. Before us, nobody could live peacefully in Afghanistan. So the first thing we have done, begun [to give] to the people is a secure and peaceful life. The second major thing that we have restored is to give them free and fair justice; you don t have to buy justice, unlike here. You will have justice freely. And you have criticized us for violating women s rights; now, who knows what happened before us. Only some symbolic schools, or symbolic posts were given to some women in the ministry, and that was called the restoration of women s rights. I can see some Afghans living here, and they will agree with me, that in the rural areas of Afghanistan, women were used as animals. They were SOLD actually. The first thing we have done is to give the self-determination to women, and it happened not in the history of Afghanistan. Throughout the history of Afghanistan, during all the so-called civilized kings or whatever, they didn t give this right to women, so women were sold.! They didn t have the right to select their husbands, or to reject their husbands. First thing we have done is to let them choose their future. And you will know that throughout south Asia, women are killed under the title of honor killings. It happens when a woman s relation is detected with a man, whether or not the relation was sexual, they’re both killed. But now this is not happening in our country. And the third thing that happened only in Afghanistan, was women were exchanged as gifts; this was not something religious; this was something cultural. When two tribal tribes were fighting among themselves, then in order to get their tribal issue reconciliated, they would exchange women, and then [they]! would make, or announce reconciliation. And this has been stopped. If we [had to give] fundamental rights of woman, we had to start from zero; we couldn t jump in the middle. Now you ve asked me about the rights of women s education and the rights of women’s work. Unlike what is said here, women do work in Afghanistan. You’re right that until 1997 I mean, in 1996 when we captured the capitol Kabul, we did ask women to stay home. It didn t mean that we wanted them to stay at home forever, but nobody listened to us. We said that there is no law, and there is no order, and have to stay at home. They were raped before us, ever! yday. So, after we disarmed the people, and after we brought law and order, and now women are working. You are right that women are not working in the ministry of defense, like here. We don t want our women to be fighter pilot[s], or to be used as objects of decoration for advertisements. But they do work. They work in the Ministry of Health, Interior, Ministry of Education, Ministry of Social Affairs, and so on. So, and we don t have any problem with women s education. We have said that we want education, and we will have education whether or not we are under anybody s pressure, because that is part of our belief. We are ordered to do that. When we say that there should be segregated schools, it does not mean that we don t want our
women to be educated. It is true that we are against co-education; but it is not true that we are against women s education. We do have schools even now, but the problem is the resources. We cannot expand these programs. Before, our government there were numerous curriculums that
were going on; there were curriculums which preached the king for the kings, and there were curriculums which preached for the communists, and there were curriculums from all these seven parties [the previously mentioned]. So, the Students were confused as to what to study, and the first we have done today is to unify that curriculum, and that s going on. But we are criticized, and we say that instead of criticism, if you just help us once, that will make a difference. Because criticism will not make a difference. If you [talk?] criticism from New York, thousands of miles away, we don t care. But if you come there and help us, we do care. So actually there are more girls students studying in the faculty of medical sciences than boys are. This is not me who is saying this, it is the United Nations who has announced this. Recently we reopened the faculty of medical science in all major cities of Afghanistan and in Kandahar, there are more girl students than boys. But they are segregated. And the Swedish committees have also established schools for girls. I know they are not enough, but that s what we can do. So, that
is what I say that we have restored.** I don t say we are 100% perfect, and nobody will say that they are 100% perfect. We do have shortcomings, and we do need to amend our policies. But we can t do everything over night. **

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/world-affairs/54547-taliban-point-of-view-hear-what-they-have-2-say.html

So let’s look at everything in perspective rather than spew the west’s propaganda about a legit government. :rolleyes:

Re: War Against Terror

^ taliban’s were evil,

Re: War Against Terror

^ omg welcome back to 1970 communist Afghanistan before the Soviets trashed the place to bits and then the communist puppet warlords further destroyed their country.

Talk about forgetting the heroes who rescued the little left of the war torn country in the early 90s. Ask the Afghan who lived thru that and tell me if he wants the commies back. Ignorance is bliss.